Is North 2023 going to be like Brisbane 2021?

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Horace

Premium Gold
Dec 2, 2001
10,770
20,426
Mitcham
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Fitzroy
The question should be, is north 2023 going to be like Brisbane 2019.

Hopefully the answer is yes.
I think that is probably the real question to ask. We seem to be following a similar model to Brisbane, being to retain good players with experience - Goldy, Cunners, Jack, Taz, to nurture and lead younger players coming in through a predominantly draft first process, while trading out others - Higgo and BennyB.

I can't remember the specifics of the Brisbane build, but I do remember that in 2019, they got to the second week of finals, losing narrowly to the GWS. Interestingly they recognised the importance of having high quality experienced players at the club, retaining players like Rich and Zorko, who might have had trade currency back in 2017 and bringing in Luke Hodge to help the younger players coming through. I think it is reasonable enough to see all of Goldy, Cunners, Jack and Taz, to be still around in 2023, to maintain that level of quality experience.

(And just as an aside, apart from Taz's unfortunate problem, the 4 mentioned above that we retained, have had substantially better seasons than either Higgo or BennyB. It may just be luck but Higgo seems to be struggling a little and Benny has had a very difficult year so far.)

Brisbane's current list seems to have a good range of players in the 22 to 28 years age group, plus around 22 players who have played 50 or more games. Only time will tell if they are good enough to win it this year, however I wouldn't be inclined to think that last nights win over Geelong puts them ahead of the Cats, the Godees, the Bulldogs and of course hovering in 8th place the Tigers.

And by the way I'm looking forward to the day when Brisbane names an Interchange bench comprised of Smith, Smith, Smith and Smith. I hope our recruiters are looking for another Walker to join Josh, Will and Patrick and match Brisbane in that department.:D
 
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Augustine

Premiership Player
Aug 28, 2013
3,141
8,287
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Outside Tarrant and Cunnington, I don’t see many leaders. I’ve been wrong before but I honestly think our culture is overrated.
I completely disagree with your post. I think you’ve got the concepts of “role model” and “leader” mixed up.

Cunnington doesn’t talk. He’s a great example to others and he’s culturally critical (taking young guys fishing etc) but he’s not a leader in the true sense. As far as I know he’s never been in the leadership group and rightly so. Tarrant is similar but it’s not as dramatic, he’s been in the leadership group before.

Ziebell is a leader. McDonald is a leader. Simpkin is an emerging leader. Charlie Lazarro has potential leadership qualities.
 

Roman Roy

I’m dumb, but I’m smart.
Oct 3, 2017
2,394
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Daniher and hipwood are 9 and 6 years into their careers aren’t they? We’d need Comben to “break out” pretty massively over the next couple. Think it’s a lot further away than 2. Love to be wrong.
Daniher is only half a season into his Brisbane Lions career.
 

Only Forwards

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2008
21,319
54,108
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
The question should be, is north 2023 going to be like Brisbane 2019.

Hopefully the answer is yes.
This has to a skipped a year though, if we are comparing coaches and tenure. Which I mean is the basis for the thread really.

Fagan was appointed end of 2016.
2017 - spoon
2018 - 15th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 2nd

I don't think we are going to 2nd next year.
 

R00StaR

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 3, 2003
5,861
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This has to a skipped a year though, if we are comparing coaches and tenure. Which I mean is the basis for the thread really.

Fagan was appointed end of 2016.
2017 - spoon
2018 - 15th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 2nd

I don't think we are going to 2nd next year.
If all goes well, we could be knocking on the door of the 8 next year.
 

the big lebowski

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 4, 2006
11,059
20,007
The hood
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This has to a skipped a year though, if we are comparing coaches and tenure. Which I mean is the basis for the thread really.

Fagan was appointed end of 2016.
2017 - spoon
2018 - 15th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 2nd

I don't think we are going to 2nd next year.
In a like for like comparison we’d be 15th next year wouldn’t we?
 

Fish Sticks

Team Captain
Mar 2, 2015
564
1,596
AFL Club
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If anything the past 10 years has taught us, it we must be prepared to trade players out and consistently obtain higher draft picks.
Brad Scott major fault was not turning the list over, ending up with a list that was so very stale.
Still remember Sydney wanting Mason Wood when he had currency and we said no and then watch him turn into a list clogger.
Do you think if we had traded out someone like Atley for a better draft pick it would have done us any harm?
I think this has been the major weakness with Carlton who are now in their 5th or is it 10th year of their rebuild? Carlton have consistently over estimated their playing group much to their detriment. A player is either a gold Standard A grader or open to trade negotiation. Locking away B graders in hope they might sprout one day is low percentage that chews up the salary cap. Ultimately we must be ruthless with the list, we need to churn, develop and make the tough calls early and not let someone like Mason Wood spend 8 years on the list for little return.
Carlton’s problem isn’t that they didn’t trade out players for high picks…
Gibbs, Betts, Tuohy, Henderson, Yarran, Menzel. They have all been traded out for high picks - even going back to Fevola.
Where has that got them? Nowhere!

You have to keep balance in the list.
Once you get in a rut of losing all the time, it is hard to get out…
Just ask Carlton.
 

DuckYeah

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 5, 2010
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Agree but who/what is the leadership?

Honest question.

Only Taz is a genuine role model IMO
JZ is a fantastic leader on and off the field. You dont have to be the best player and Jack has been very serviceable over his career. Tough as nails and wears his heart on his sleeve. Cunnington is a massive leading influence on and off the field. Goldstein, Tarrant.
 

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Devington

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2013
12,077
26,030
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Probably not, but it's possible we might hit the sweet spot of the kids coming on a little faster than expected and the older blokes maintaining their form for long enough.

Cunners, Goldy, and Taz probably being the 3 older players we need to look the most carefully to replace. Arguably we've got Cunners' long term replacement sorted, Goldy's replacement is very up in the air, and Taz's direct replacement is done but the trickle down will be a b*tch to navigate. The good news is that each have their own unique circumstances that could see them playing for a long time still: Cunners' role won't be impacted much if he loses a bit of whatever speed he already has and we can always park him forward for a couple, Taz hasn't actually played that much football so it's possible he might actually have more gas in the tank than would otherwise be the case, and Goldy is a ******* machine in the Boomer mould.

We get things super right I genuinely think we could be contending in '23, but even then I think that window wouldn't last long at all beofre a slight backtrack. Most likely we're looking at a window opening from '25 onwards.
 

Mcarcherey

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2014
2,021
2,165
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Realistically I think 2024 will be the point where things kick off. I'm using Thomas as a base here. He'll be entering his peak years at 24, Simpkin, McKay, Zurhaar and Larkey will be 26 and into into their peak, LDU and Stephenson will be 25. Then we'll have Powell, Phillips and Horne (hopefully we don't fu** this year up) snapping at their heels. Corr, McDonald and maybe Anderson will be the veterans at 29-30.

In that time we need another KPD, KPF, ruckman, at least one genuine dangerous small forward.
Corr and Mckay have the KPD positions, KPF can be comben or a FA, ruckman isn't really that important - richmond have one of the worst in the comp and the small forward area should be covered by the plethora or resting mids we have such as thomas, stephenson, taylor or simpkin.

Daniher and hipwood are 9 and 6 years into their careers aren’t they? We’d need Comben to “break out” pretty massively over the next couple. Think it’s a lot further away than 2. Love to be wrong.
larkey has hipwood's standard covered, just like brissy we can bring in a FA to fill the daniher position.
 

Devington

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2013
12,077
26,030
AFL Club
North Melbourne
If anything the past 10 years has taught us, it we must be prepared to trade players out and consistently obtain higher draft picks.
Brad Scott major fault was not turning the list over, ending up with a list that was so very stale.
Still remember Sydney wanting Mason Wood when he had currency and we said no and then watch him turn into a list clogger.
Do you think if we had traded out someone like Atley for a better draft pick it would have done us any harm?
I think this has been the major weakness with Carlton who are now in their 5th or is it 10th year of their rebuild? Carlton have consistently over estimated their playing group much to their detriment. A player is either a gold Standard A grader or open to trade negotiation. Locking away B graders in hope they might sprout one day is low percentage that chews up the salary cap. Ultimately we must be ruthless with the list, we need to churn, develop and make the tough calls early and not let someone like Mason Wood spend 8 years on the list for little return.
Brown and Higgo traded out are probably a good indication we're more open to this kind of strategy than we have previously been.

I don't want to see Frog go, but the rumours around him have gradually lessened the attachment I have to him and thinking about it logically he's a prime candidate for getting us some draft capital. We've recruited heavily for mids and our wings are also looking promising right now, so even with his positive attributes I don't see him being as vital as recent years. As much as I love his versatility, endurance, and ability to play a role it's true he isn't a star, but those attributes might be the exact type another club would pay handsomely for.

Atley is in a similar position of possibly garnering a decent enough draft pick if he left because of his attributes (always fit, good lockdown, great top end speed), however I'd be less comfortable pulling the trigger right now considering the injuries hitting blokes that could have been competing for that spot (plus I've heard nothing to indicate he would want to leave).
 

DERRINALPHIL

Club Legend
Sep 16, 2001
2,125
3,131
Behind the goals at the BSO
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
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We need key position players and a ruckman and they don't grow on trees.

Its also hard to pick them young. Schache(can't spell his name) for Brisbane was a blow out.

There will be lots of midfielders in the top part of the draft but in two years Goldy, Taz and Walker will be gone and I don't see anyone in the Twos that can take their places. Recruiting will be difficult.

Let's hope the next Brownlow medallist wants to come to us.
 

RossHenshaw

Club Legend
Sep 12, 2020
1,012
2,098
AFL Club
North Melbourne
If anything the past 10 years has taught us, it we must be prepared to trade players out and consistently obtain higher draft picks.
Brad Scott major fault was not turning the list over, ending up with a list that was so very stale.
Still remember Sydney wanting Mason Wood when he had currency and we said no and then watch him turn into a list clogger.
Do you think if we had traded out someone like Atley for a better draft pick it would have done us any harm?
I think this has been the major weakness with Carlton who are now in their 5th or is it 10th year of their rebuild? Carlton have consistently over estimated their playing group much to their detriment. A player is either a gold Standard A grader or open to trade negotiation. Locking away B graders in hope they might sprout one day is low percentage that chews up the salary cap. Ultimately we must be ruthless with the list, we need to churn, develop and make the tough calls early and not let someone like Mason Wood spend 8 years on the list for little return.
0EBF88B5-BF79-48CE-A6AA-55E3D20F8996.jpeg
 

andana

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2008
8,944
10,400
Thailand
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Brisbane struggled at the end when they lost two KPFs. We still only have one who can easily get shut down.

Can't see us getting up to their level in two seasons.
 

Krakoueraddict

Senior List
May 8, 2018
188
560
AFL Club
North Melbourne
This has to a skipped a year though, if we are comparing coaches and tenure. Which I mean is the basis for the thread really.

Fagan was appointed end of 2016.
2017 - spoon
2018 - 15th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 2nd

I don't think we are going to 2nd next year.
So we go

2021 Spoon
2022 Bottom 4 with lots of close loses and a very healthy %
2023 Rocket into top 4
2024 Winning finals
2025 Premiership dynasty for several years
2031 Trade in anyone and everyone to stay at the pointy end
2035 Team of 35yo's but still making prelims ala Geelong
2038 Fall off cliff
2039 Rinse and repeat.
 

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