Is North Melbourne passing on Logan McDonald going to be the 2021 version of the Bulldogs passing on Buddy for Ryan Griffin

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The Gong

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Northern Academies are though.

Imagine being able to take risks with your first pick knowing that you have the safety net of two more first rounders.
I know. It's awesome, right?

Gulden was a 2nd rounder though. Dud.

My point though was that Melbourne and Carlton had a raft of high draft picks but didn't convert it into sustained success.

I think Phillips will be a very good player but I do believe not taking McDonald was a blunder. Quality key position players are harder to get. Jokes aside I hope North can get hold of some quality talent the next few years and turn the ship around.
 

Psicosis

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I know. It's awesome, right?

Gulden was a 2nd rounder though. Dud.

My point though was that Melbourne and Carlton had a raft of high draft picks but didn't convert it into sustained success.

I think Phillips will be a very good player but I do believe not taking McDonald was a blunder. Quality key position players are harder to get. Jokes aside I hope North can get hold of some quality talent the next few years and turn the ship around.
It's pretty easy from the Ivory Tower to question the Phillips over McDonald decision.

The reality is that KPF's with early picks are big risks. For every one that becomes a gun (King Brothers), there are more that flop (Schache, Boyd, Patton). Sydney had the luxury of knowing that they had Campbell & Gulden if McDonald flopped. North on the other hand, being year 1 into a rebuild with no academy, couldn't risk taking the next Schache IMO.

McDonalds first 2 games have been excellent, I think he's going to be a great player. Will Phillips was by far the best midfielder in the 2020 crop, so it's a fair assumption that he is also going to be a player. I just think it's incredibly short-sighted to say that it was a blunder at this point.
 

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The Gong

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It's pretty easy from the Ivory Tower to question the Phillips over McDonald decision.

The reality is that KPF's with early picks are big risks. For every one that becomes a gun (King Brothers), there are more that flop (Schache, Boyd, Patton). Sydney had the luxury of knowing that they had Campbell & Gulden if McDonald flopped. North on the other hand, being year 1 into a rebuild with no academy, couldn't risk taking the next Schache IMO.

McDonalds first 2 games have been excellent, I think he's going to be a great player. Will Phillips was by far the best midfielder in the 2020 crop, so it's a fair assumption that he is also going to be a player. I just think it's incredibly short-sighted to say that it was a blunder at this point.

Most draft picks hold some sort of risk but you have to roll the dice at least
The potential that drafting a KPF might not work doesn't mean you shouldn't roll the dice. The hype is a bit out of control at the moment so of course two games is not a reasonable sample. You'd want to see what they can do over the course of a few seasons at least.

But from a North Melbourne list strategy do you think it's a good move? I would have thought North would be very keen to secure a quality young KPF but maybe they are looking to trade a player like that in and build from the middle. There's cap space to do so.
 

B4Bear

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The potential that drafting a KPF might not work doesn't mean you shouldn't roll the dice. The hype is a bit out of control at the moment so of course two games is not a reasonable sample. You'd want to see what they can do over the course of a few seasons at least.

But from a North Melbourne list strategy do you think it's a good move? I would have thought North would be very keen to secure a quality young KPF but maybe they are looking to trade a player like that in and build from the middle. There's cap space to do so.
McDonald would be lucky to get a goal if he was in the current North lineup.

Until our dysfunctional midfield is fixed the forwards and backs are going to be consistently under the pump.

Would rather have these young midfielders in there now when there are some more mature bodies to help such as Jed Anderson and Ben Cunnington to compliment them.

Calling it a bust after 2 games for one and zero for another is inane.
 

freddy mercury

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Man I hate these arguments, at the time player x is picked before player x because he is widely the most rated player in the competition at that time. You never hear anyone say I cant believe St Kilda picked Nick Dal Santo at pick 13 instead of Dane Swan at 58. Oh fu** what a fu** up. Or I cant believe Brisbane passed their pick at 51 instead of taking Swan at 58.

Its all about hindsight. ******* hate these arguments.
 

Psicosis

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The potential that drafting a KPF might not work doesn't mean you shouldn't roll the dice. The hype is a bit out of control at the moment so of course two games is not a reasonable sample. You'd want to see what they can do over the course of a few seasons at least.

But from a North Melbourne list strategy do you think it's a good move? I would have thought North would be very keen to secure a quality young KPF but maybe they are looking to trade a player like that in and build from the middle. There's cap space to do so.
From a North strategy perspective (and I trust that I'm more across our past list management strategy then yourself), I think we have had significant midfield issues for 2 decades. The closest we've had to a star midfield group during that period was Cunnington & Higgins at full flight, however was still quite one dimensional with our one wood being contested ball.

To now have a group of 5 first round midfielders (Phillips 19, Davies-Uniacke 21, Simpkin 22, Powell 19, Stephenson 21) running around together is very exciting. Complimented by another this year in likely Sinn or Horne, I think we will have a very complete midfield group that has balance both inside & outside and will develop together for the next decade.

The club rates Comben 19 & Larkey 22 very highly. Larkey is obviously struggling with so much attention on him, but IMO this is largely due to our poor ball use. I would hope that if those 5-6 players I mentioned above, develop as they are expected to, life will become a lot easier for Larkey. It's the same reasoning that I think Logan would struggle playing for North in 2021.

My view is that if we are able to build a really strong midfield (I'd consider that group on par with any other clubs 19-22 year old mids in the competition), then we will be able to attract a decent KPF through trade or FA. As you've said, we will have money to throw around & I think the difference in previous years, is that player may actually want to come to a side with a midfield like that where they can potentially be quite successful.
 

Nutjob

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That was actually a genuine consideration I had about him pre-draft - He was playing third fiddle in the most stacked team behind Rowell and Anderson that year. It seems unlikely he was copping much, if any, attention from opposition teams during his underage year. I was interested to see how he would handle playing as the go-to midfielder in his draft year but obviously never got the opportunity to see it.

But recognising he didn't play all of last - it's still odd that a guy who was touted to have a great work ethic and leadership qualities is as far off it in round 1 as he was/it. The same excuses didn't seem to stop Lazzaro (Geelong boy) who looked really good the other night against us. Given guys like Cunnington and Anderson were injured and Higgins was traded I was expecting him to be a sure starter

Intrigued to see how he goes as the season continues, but with you guys having traded out Ben Brown last year, the decision to not draft McDonald was an odd one.
He had an injury during the preseason. He only played his first full game last weekend.


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LukeParkerno1

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I'd sympathize if Sydney had lost any decent Vic kids. Z.Jones is a hack and doesn't count.
We've lost plenty..and our best F/S won a Brownlow at another club. Works both ways. Do the Academies need to be tightened (YES). I'd personally remove the discount, that's where the major issue is. Make it the same across the board, whether it be a NGA, Academy or a F/S. No discounts. Fair, and simple and frankly it's not hard.
 

SnusCG

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He had an injury during the preseason. He only played his first full game last weekend.


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Not trying to bait you, but I literally can’t find a single report or article regarding Phillips having an injury, not even a mention of it on the North Melbourne board. There were reports of him not having his fitness up to a standard where he could play out games and a mention that he may have been sick, but nothing about an injury.

I did find a few David Noble quotes saying that he was behind Lazzaro and Powell for a spot in the team though.
 

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TryAnHit

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Mcdonald go home factor would have come into it for sure.... if north are a rabble you can't risk him going home and go for the safer pick
 

Psicosis

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Not trying to bait you, but I literally can’t find a single report or article regarding Phillips having an injury, not even a mention of it on the North Melbourne board. There were reports of him not having his fitness up to a standard where he could play out games and a mention that he may have been sick, but nothing about an injury.

I did find a few David Noble quotes saying that he was behind Lazzaro and Powell for a spot in the team though.
Noble's said in a couple pressers that he had niggles during pre-season and wasn't able to do all the sessions. If you require the validation, go watch all his pressers from preseason.

As a result, his fitness was effected - Hence why he was eased in with 1 quarter, 2 quarters and now 4 quarters this past weekend.
 

Dazb86

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From a North strategy perspective (and I trust that I'm more across our past list management strategy then yourself), I think we have had significant midfield issues for 2 decades. The closest we've had to a star midfield group during that period was Cunnington & Higgins at full flight, however was still quite one dimensional with our one wood being contested ball.

To now have a group of 5 first round midfielders (Phillips 19, Davies-Uniacke 21, Simpkin 22, Powell 19, Stephenson 21) running around together is very exciting. Complimented by another this year in likely Sinn or Horne, I think we will have a very complete midfield group that has balance both inside & outside and will develop together for the next decade.

The club rates Comben 19 & Larkey 22 very highly. Larkey is obviously struggling with so much attention on him, but IMO this is largely due to our poor ball use. I would hope that if those 5-6 players I mentioned above, develop as they are expected to, life will become a lot easier for Larkey. It's the same reasoning that I think Logan would struggle playing for North in 2021.

My view is that if we are able to build a really strong midfield (I'd consider that group on par with any other clubs 19-22 year old mids in the competition), then we will be able to attract a decent KPF through trade or FA. As you've said, we will have money to throw around & I think the difference in previous years, is that player may actually want to come to a side with a midfield like that where they can potentially be quite successful.
Midfields should be relatively easy to build. Just take best available midfielder with an early pick and it's almost a guaranteed 10 year+ player. When you go fishing for KPF's and KPD's with early picks is when it gets a bit riskier.
 

Bonz

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Midfields should be relatively easy to build. Just take best available midfielder with an early pick and it's almost a guaranteed 10 year+ player. When you go fishing for KPF's and KPD's with early picks is when it gets a bit riskier.
I don't think midfields are that easy to build, otherwise every team in the competition would have a good one.

This is a rediculous argument though, McDonald has played two games (who knows he could fall away like Fitzgerald), and Phillips hasn't played yet.

Honestly think Phillips is going to be a hell of a player, and I applaud North for taking their time with his development and not rushing him in at AFL level when the fitness isn't quite there.
 
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Roby

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That was actually a genuine consideration I had about him pre-draft - He was playing third fiddle in the most stacked team behind Rowell and Anderson that year. It seems unlikely he was copping much, if any, attention from opposition teams during his underage year. I was interested to see how he would handle playing as the go-to midfielder in his draft year but obviously never got the opportunity to see it.

But recognising he didn't play all of last - it's still odd that a guy who was touted to have a great work ethic and leadership qualities is as far off it in round 1 as he was/it. The same excuses didn't seem to stop Lazzaro (Geelong boy) who looked really good the other night against us. Given guys like Cunnington and Anderson were injured and Higgins was traded I was expecting him to be a sure starter

Intrigued to see how he goes as the season continues, but with you guys having traded out Ben Brown last year, the decision to not draft McDonald was an odd one.
Several games where Phillips played with Rowell and Anderson out where he dominated.
 

Roby

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I watched L McDonald play a couple of WAFL games live and really liked the way he played , he has a very versatile style and gets his goals in different ways. I don’t think he’s a genuine tall target style of fwd but more of a versatile finisher

10/10 on the eye test for a young player for sure , so I was definitely in the Roos have stuffed it camp. Then I watched young Tom Powell play with such poise and vision and was very impressed so if Phillips is a better player than him you would be VERY happy

I know the Roos have gone very analytical with their drafting so Im not so sure now

Will be an interesting storyline to follow

Give me a break with the old ‘ it’s 2 games FFS ‘ sooking though , what the hell is BF for if it’s not footy chat and opposition team needling


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What do you mean give "you" a break?
 

Roby

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It's pretty easy from the Ivory Tower to question the Phillips over McDonald decision.

The reality is that KPF's with early picks are big risks. For every one that becomes a gun (King Brothers), there are more that flop (Schache, Boyd, Patton). Sydney had the luxury of knowing that they had Campbell & Gulden if McDonald flopped. North on the other hand, being year 1 into a rebuild with no academy, couldn't risk taking the next Schache IMO.

McDonalds first 2 games have been excellent, I think he's going to be a great player. Will Phillips was by far the best midfielder in the 2020 crop, so it's a fair assumption that he is also going to be a player. I just think it's incredibly short-sighted to say that it was a blunder at this point.
Short-sighted? I'd say it's laughable at best.
 

GhostofJimJess

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Melbourne took Cale Morton ahead of Patrick Dangerfield in 2007.

Or taking Patrick Dangerfield over Brad Ebert?

On a serious note, every club including Port Adelaide overlooked Matthew Pavlich in the 1998 draft. He was drafted at pick 4 in 1999. Richmond overlooking him in the 1999 draft for Aaron Fiora is a much bigger blunder.
It was as if our club's job at that stage was solely to make other clubs feel a little bit better about themselves.
"Yeah we screwed up, but hey, at least we're not Richmond".
 

The Gong

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Mcdonald go home factor would have come into it for sure.... if north are a rabble you can't risk him going home and go for the safer pick
Wait, so the go home factor is a thing? So we should continue the academies to assist with player retention is non-traditional footy states. Good to know.
 

Nutjob

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Not trying to bait you, but I literally can’t find a single report or article regarding Phillips having an injury, not even a mention of it on the North Melbourne board. There were reports of him not having his fitness up to a standard where he could play out games and a mention that he may have been sick, but nothing about an injury.

I did find a few David Noble quotes saying that he was behind Lazzaro and Powell for a spot in the team though.
It was mentioned by both Noble and one of the assistants. It’s on the North website a while back. Feel free to navigate your way through if you feel you need confirmation.
It has been mentioned on the North board also, so again navigate your way through.

Lazzaro and Powell are ahead of him because they’re more match fit, not for any other reason.
You just have to look at his TOG throughout the preseason up until now.

First AFL practice match = didn’t play
NAB game = played 1 quarter
First VFL practice match = played a half
Second Vfl practice match = played full game

They’re clearly building his match fitness.



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