Opinion Is Our Flag Window Shut?

Is it done?

  • Put a fork in us

    Votes: 32 34.0%
  • Splinters/Too early

    Votes: 12 12.8%
  • Have faith in our learnings

    Votes: 18 19.1%
  • Jack Watts

    Votes: 32 34.0%

  • Total voters
    94
  • Poll closed .

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Apr 13, 2015
4,662
12,393
AFL Club
Melbourne
We’re 9-10 since Round 11, 2022 and the 10-0 before that was largely based off of playing in bursts against inferior opposition. The bottom line is, we haven’t played consistently well since the 2021 Finals Series.



The 2021 Premiership was a terrific achievement based on a rock solid team defence, an excellent midfield performance and more than a fair share of luck with injury. The four defeats and draw came from usually lowly opposition tactically exploiting small weaknesses in our game. Adelaide rolled the dice by running and gunning down the middle and won by a point, Collingwood stretched us by chipping the ball short and using angles and width well, GWS used Whitfield as an extra off the back of the stoppage to cut up our zone by running through the lines, The Bulldogs were better in wet conditions at the G and scored a lot of ground ball goals and Hawthorn forced a draw by essentially a combination of what GWS and the Dogs were doing. However, none of these losses were comprehensive floggings (20 points against the Dogs was the worst margin), the team performance was no worse than other scrappy wins against Essendon and Sydney, and Melbourne had a chance to win each game until very late in the piece.



If you were to dissect the team/squad that won that flag it would go:



#1 Big Boys: Gawn, May, Oliver and Petracca

The best fullback, ruck and midfield duo in the comp in 2021. Since then, Gawn and May have missed a handful of games and in a handful of others have either looked banged up or uncharacteristically poor. With both now in their 30s it wouldn’t be silly to assume further disruption and regression in performance. Whereas Petracca and Oliver are in their prime but have had their own fitness, form and confidence issues since 2021, Petracca more so than Oliver.



Elite by position - A graders: Fritsch, Langdon, Lever and Salem.

Lever and Salem were All Australians in 2021 but basically All Poo in 2022. Fritsch has continued to be a deadly finisher and has largely held his form. Langdon had an excellent 2021 but faded and was negated in 2022 by opposition tactics and turgid ball movement in transition.



Set and forget role players: Brayshaw, B Brown, Harmes, Jackson, McDonald, Neal-Bullen, Petty, Pickett, Rivers, Spargo, Tomlinson*, Viney

All of these players were good to excellent in their roles in 2021 but Pickett aside, there has not been much improvement in this group. B Brown, Harmes, McDonald and Tomlinson have all gone massively backwards. Brayshaw, Petty and Viney were all quite good in 22 but have been terrible in patches 23. Rivers has been erratic and ANB and Spargo are probably always going to be at this level where they look good when the team is on but poor when we’re not.



Depth/Cover: Bowey, M Brown, Hibberd, Hunt, Jetta, Jones, Jordon, Melksham, Smith, Sparrow, Weideman

These players all played a role in the 21 flag and were largely interchangeable as bottom of the 22/depth. Arguably the biggest problem in this group is that the likes of Sparrow and Bowey haven’t really been able to emulate their 2021 finals form since. Why Melksham is still getting games beggars belief and speaks to a combination of s**t selection, regression from role players and probably not enough other depth coming through to take his spot.



In 2023, the dissection of the squad/list would go something like:



#1 Big Boys: Gawn, May, Oliver and Petracca



Elite by position - A graders: Fritsch, Lever, Pickett



Set and forget/role players: Grundy, Hunter, Langdon, Neal-Bullen, Spargo



Depth/Cover: Bowey, Brayshaw, B Brown, Chandler, Dunstan, Harmes, Hibberd, Jordon, Laurie, McDonald, McVee, Melksham, Petty, Rivers, Salem, Smith, Sparrow, Tomlinson, Turner, Van Rooyen, Viney



Teams that have won multiple flags usually have 1-2 years at the beginning of their run where they dominate Home and Away and then Finals. Then, they navigate the season, secure a top 2/4 spot and then boss the finals. I don’t doubt that we’re trying to adjust and there have been some problems with injuries/form which could in turn affect/explain the mixed results. But, it’s hard to see us winning s**t if we’re hoping and praying that the big boys magically recapture their best form without adding to the squad or getting some drastic improvement from within.
 
Haha awe man If I made this thread 😂

I think our window is shut for the main group that played in 21. Too many blokes had career years that just don't seem repeatable again. Almost no one has improved since then, alot have dropped off.

However when they chucked JVR, Mcvee Chandler together I saw some light. Petty and JVR forward made us dynamic. Just like that we reverted to McDonald Melk and most likely Brown and it feels all abit s**t forward half 2022 again.

Petracca Salem and Brayshaw are miles below their best. Oliver feels like he's doing it one out. Sparrow, Melk, Bowey feel like their getting games doing stuff all. It can be fixed, I don't have faith in Goody fixing it. Don't see a great coach there just a bloke who struck gold once.
 

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An here come the flood of derrr melbournes da bestest after a pretty reasonable OP
1 poor loss with a couple of key injuries and a few road trips under the belt.

Should have won, the lack of effort was trash, but shutting our flag window after 1 game is weak as piss.

I get that we all like to have a bit of therapy on the internet after losing a game we should have won, but this is such a panic thread designed for the gutless types.

Enjoy it though.
 
1 poor loss with a couple of key injuries and a few road trips under the belt.

Should have won, the lack of effort was trash, but shutting our flag window after 1 game is weak as piss.

I get that we all like to have a bit of therapy on the internet after losing a game we should have won, but this is such a panic thread designed for the gutless types.

Enjoy it though.
2 poor losses. They were missing their best key forward aswell. Couple road trips? Yeah cause essendon didn't have to travel to Adelaide as well.

The OP didn't react off one game, I'm guessing you didn't even read it and just had to fly the nuffie flag high
 
1 poor loss with a couple of key injuries and a few road trips under the belt.

Should have won, the lack of effort was trash, but shutting our flag window after 1 game is weak as piss.

I get that we all like to have a bit of therapy on the internet after losing a game we should have won, but this is such a panic thread designed for the gutless types.

Enjoy it though.

Adding in last years form, (JFYI; it is relevant) its hardly 1 poor loss in isolation, take the "Go DeEs" blinkers off and you might actually see that
 
Bring back Craig Jennings for some of that 2018 offensive magic!

I do have similar thoughts. We've been in a rut since the flag. Play a grinding slog style that has been picked apart. Keep going to cooked blokes like TMc, Melk etc.

Play a few more kids. At least there's scope for improvement, excitement, something new.

Another worrying trend is we've struggled to fight back against momentum swings recently. The GF and Brisbane '21 games we were down at HT with the Oppo running hot but turned it around to dominate. Since then when the opposition gets a run on it's turning into 5, 6, 7 goals straight to them. Our defence is looking leakier than it has in years.
 
2 poor losses. They were missing their best key forward aswell. Couple road trips? Yeah cause essendon didn't have to travel to Adelaide as well.

The OP didn't react off one game, I'm guessing you didn't even read it and just had to fly the nuffie flag high
Last comment on this whinge fest thread, but just to clarify:

- Brisbane are a good team. Particularly at the GABBA where they also knocked off the Pies. Losing to them by 11 points is not earth shattering.

- We went MCG - GABBA - MCG - Optus - Adelaide Oval, with a 6 day break on the last one. Goody even mentioned they would address the preparation. Clearly a factor whether you like it or not. Bombers traveled for the first time this year.

Have a big yell though, get it all out, have your overreaction competition and hopefully you feel all better.

Cheers.
 
Adding in last years form, (JFYI; it is relevant) its hardly 1 poor loss in isolation, take the "Go DeEs" blinkers off and you might actually see that
No I’m swayed because I’m “weak as piss” and “gutless”. The 10 losses in the past 19 games just wasn’t us. We’re the only team that’s had to travel. We’ve had the most horrific run of injuries in the league.
 
Bring back Craig Jennings for some of that 2018 offensive magic!

I do have similar thoughts. We've been in a rut since the flag. Play a grinding slog style that has been picked apart. Keep going to cooked blokes like TMc, Melk etc.

Play a few more kids. At least there's scope for improvement, excitement, something new.

Another worrying trend is we've struggled to fight back against momentum swings recently. The GF and Brisbane '21 games we were down at HT with the Oppo running hot but turned it around to dominate. Since then when the opposition gets a run on it's turning into 5, 6, 7 goals straight to them. Our defence is looking leakier than it has in years.
I think it's very clear that alot of teams have improved since 21, we haven't

As of this year none of our stars are in AA form imo ( Oliver will be in but he's not dominated every game)

None of our role players have stepped up to become guns, the only improvement has come from trades and youth. The rest have treated water or dropped off
 

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Last comment on this whinge fest thread, but just to clarify:

- Brisbane are a good team. Particularly at the GABBA where they also knocked off the Pies. Losing to them by 11 points is not earth shattering.

- We went MCG - GABBA - MCG - Optus - Adelaide Oval, with a 6 day break on the last one. Goody even mentioned they would address the preparation. Clearly a factor whether you like it or not. Bombers traveled for the first time this year.

Have a big yell though, get it all out, have your overreaction competition and hopefully you feel all better.

Cheers.
Says its a whinge fest then piles in the travel excuse and a 6 day break which is the biggest sook of all time with 0 evidence 😂😂
 
Not shutting it yet - modern football is a strange caper and even very good teams put in stinkers.

I can't name 4 teams that are definitely better than us, and until that point you say you've almost got a sniff especially if you can get some home finals.

We've been strangely good at the G, if we lose to the Tiges at home in front of the big crowd I'll start melting and throwing toys out of cot (I'm gonna throw Tmac out first)
 
Definitely agree regarding the lack of progression from our players. Petty was one I thought made strides last year but appears to have instantly gone backwards. Hard to think of anyone who has significantly improved since the flag.

We're still a fair bit better than yesterday suggests though I reckon, haven't seen that many individual stinkers in a long time from this team. On paper we've still got enough high end talent to be competing but we must stop picking cooked players like tmac, melksham, tommo etc. and actually make some changes in game when things aren't going our way.
 
Not shutting it yet - modern football is a strange caper and even very good teams put in stinkers.

I can't name 4 teams that are definitely better than us, and until that point you say you've almost got a sniff especially if you can get some home finals.

So since the new finals system came in, no team has ever won it from 4th and only 3 teams have made the GF ( Geelong 20, Sydney 06, Collingwood 02)

So only the top 3 really have a chance as it's evenly distributed between them as winners. So you only need 3 teams better than us and if we are gonna play like s**t every 2-3 weeks that won't be hard.
 
So since the new finals system came in, no team has ever won it from 4th and only 3 teams have made the GF ( Geelong 20, Sydney 06, Collingwood 02)

So only the top 3 really have a chance as it's evenly distributed between them as winners. So you only need 3 teams better than us and if we are gonna play like s**t every 2-3 weeks that won't be hard.
Seems like a statistical quirk rather than an actual reason why you can't win it from 4th with the double chance - but anyway, who are the 3 definitely better teams than us right now?
 
Seems like a statistical quirk rather than an actual reason why you can't win it from 4th with the double chance - but anyway, who are the 3 definitely better teams than us right now?
How's it a quirk? No one's done it? Top 4 is an arbitrary separator doesn't mean your shitloads better than 5th.

I think that's kinda the point though, not sure anyone is definitely better than us, but I'm not sure we are definitely better than Essendon and some other 5-10 teams either.
 
Obviously, I hope I am clearly incorrect and that we win the next two flags and this thread gets the big backfire/flogstradamos tag. But 9 wins in 19 games doesn’t happen in a vacuum. You can’t just say that when we win that’s the norm and when we lose that’s an aberration over almost a season’s work.

It’s system, health/injuries and form - I hope it’s just a case of figuring stuff out before going bang like Hawthorn did in the years 09-11. But, I reckon we need to see a serious uptick in form pretty soon.
 
We've played our two stinkers away from home and played our best 2 games at home.

Last year we were *en garbage at the G and it cost us in finals against two interstate teams.

If we keep rolling teams at the G then we're in with a chance come finals (if we can get some home finals).
 
We've played our two stinkers away from home and played our best 2 games at home.

Last year we were *en garbage at the G and it cost us in finals against two interstate teams.

If we keep rolling teams at the G then we're in with a chance come finals (if we can get some home finals).
Don't think you can use the 2 away from home line when we played Essendon.
 
Definitely not shut, can’t see a clear standout side this season, Collingwood might be that next year, but not yet, comp is still even enough that out best can be the best, but we really need to put it together, worrying signs early this season.

I’d be pretty bummer it this group couldn’t snag a flag at the G, 2021 was great, but that’d be an amazing experience.
 
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