Analysis Is our forward line functioning better without Cox?

Is our forward line better with Cox in the side?

  • Yes

  • No


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Bramax

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Based on the small sample size of what 2.5 games....yes Roughy playing the Cox role is working. The one thing we can’t ignore is that our backline is also functioning better with Roughy not there!!

The hint there is that our midfield and full ground pressure has lifted in the last three games, WE have controlled the game...so of course your forwards will get on top, and the game becomes easier for defenders when you are on top in the middle.
Yes and no but I think you nailed it. Because of how well our midfield is playing, the full ground pressure when we DONT have the ball and our overall control of the game, I believe Roughy going back makes us even stronger. He’s a great defensive mark and if teams are struggling to move the ball forward and bomb it in, he’ll eat it up. The only proviso would be Moore going forward because I agree with you, Roughy has played his forward role as well as could be expected. But Moore would be better.
 

Bramax

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Its a very valid option but I'd actually prefer Moore to play back for his marking.

Wherever he plays he'll be better than Roughead but I think Roughy has been good forward despite not being personally productive. He keeps moving and hes taking marks up the ground.
Don’t forget Roughy is the AFL recruit of the season because of how well he’s played as a defender and he too is a strong mark albeit not vicelike like Moore.
But Moore is another kind of animal altogether and if you play him forward in our current forward line, he will use his athletic, mobile, 203cm frame to torch the opposition. Good luck clamping Moore, De Goey, Stephenson and Elliott. It’s frightening.
Moore can be damaging down back but he more so up forward I reckon.
 

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Bramax

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Absolutely impossible to tell based on the last few weeks because our opponents have been really weak.

However, i don't think the question is whether our forward line is performing better or not...because ultimately Roughead is doing the same role, but not hitting the scoreboard.

The real question is how our backline will hold up without Roughead. I think it has held up fine based on our opponents in recent weeks. And it will probably hold up fine next week since Essendon also don't have a monster forward right now due to injuries.

But I have fears sending Magden and Scharenberg up against Riewoldt and Lynch, or Kennedy and Darling, or Hipwood and big O, or Hawkins and Ratugelea etc.

Getting Darcy Moore helps, but I consider him more a CHB as opposed to a FB. The backline looked its best with Roughead at FB and Moore at CHB. So it's a real balancing act from here. i think we'll miss Cox the most in these bigger games when we have to either sacrifice Roughead down back, or alternatively go completely small up forward.

I agree that Moore is the best option to go forward...but I just don't think we are going to risk him hamstrings because playing forward involves a lot more repeat sprints than that of a defender. It's a different level of conditioning. Especially since we play our taller guys higher up the field and try and exploit defenders for speed against Elliott, Stephenson and De Goey. So it's a lot more running for our tall guys.
Play him out of the square. At 203cms, we could near on kick it on his head. For sure he will need to lead but I’d keep him within 25m of goals and let Mihocek and our swoop squad do the repeat sprints and leading. It can work and protect his hammys.
 

Bramax

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I must say I was of a similar opinion about the marks when I read the post you responded to. But then I looked at the stats, Roughead seems to take more marks, but Cox takes more contested. Interestingly, Howe on the radio this morning said that Roughead is so predictable as a fwd. In the end, I don't think it is an either/or question. If Cox was available, he would be playing forward and Roughead back. That is surely a better arrangement than Roughead forward, Madgen back.

So, if he is available, the question isn't Roughead v Cox, it is Madgen v Cox. Cox wins in 2019, but maybe not in 2020?
Might be Madgen v Cox v Murphy. If Murphy manages to find some luck and keep on the park, he might be difficult to keep out of our team next year.
 

Thatsmyname

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Might be Madgen v Cox v Murphy. If Murphy manages to find some luck and keep on the park, he might be difficult to keep out of our team next year.
Has Murphy had a growth spurt?

190cm 79kg

I'm on the Wilson bandwagon, he's pretty much the only prospect we've got
 
I’ll go against the grain here.
I’d play Darcy back.
We have Stephenson, Billy, JDG, WHE and even Trav to blast out of the goal square if required.
 

HFF

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I’ll go against the grain here.
I’d play Darcy back.
We have Stephenson, Billy, JDG, WHE and even Trav to blast out of the goal square if required.

Back of forward works either way for me with Moore.

Just as long as we can faze Cox our period.

I’m hoping Wilson comes along next year and plays some games too.
 

MarkT2

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I see mark is in fine form - nobody does it better.

If

You are in fine form mark lol.

Just how many flag favourites have there been this year hmmm?

Today's chocolates are tomorrow's boiled lollies Mark.

Doesn't matter what the pieces and the tactics are so long as we do it better than anyone else.
It's a simple point. You are more likely to win with your strength than trying to beat someone with theirs when you aren't equipped to do it.
 

Bramax

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Has Murphy had a growth spurt?

190cm 79kg

I'm on the Wilson bandwagon, he's pretty much the only prospect we've got
Murphy is only 2 cms less than Madgen and is listed at 85kgs but likely more by now so he does give up a lot of weight to Madgen. He was one of our most impressive on the track preseason apparently. I take your point though.
 

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The comparisons here are omitting the factors from our opposition over the last three weeks that matter in this context.
Firstly, all three teams have turned the ball over a lot, which won't happen in the finals. These turnovers gave our midfield time and space to deliver the ball well, which they have been unable to do when the pressure was greater.
Secondly, the opposition midfields played poorly in all three games. This too gave our players more time and space for delivery, which was better as a result. While Cox was playing, these conditions didn't apply, our midfield has underperformed all year. The question is whether they can deliver the ball well under finals pressure. i don;t know the answer to that.
The real turnaround in my view is that we have got the right personnel in the midfield and in form.
A further caution is that Sidebottom will not be allowed to run free in finals, and his ability to set the other players up will be curtailed.
Finally, losing Cox as second ruck is a big loss. There is no way to argue around that.

My point in this is to argue against the notion that Cox's absence is the cause of a form turnaround. There are a lot of other factors that matter, and not just the weakness of 2 of the 3 opponents either.

Great post.

I don't think anyone is implying that the reason that we're playing better is because Cox is out. There is not doubt he would have found it easier over the last few weeks.

My point was that Roughy is doing a better job than Cox at (a) creating a contest and (b) even more importantly creating space for the others to lead into; this has brought Billy and Varcoe into the game last week. That has given our midfield (which finally seems to be gelling) better options.

I am not suggesting that there is no future for Cox as you mentioned he is a solid second ruck.
 
Yes, we are. Last week in particular showed how good we are when we play the pressure game starting within our forward 50.

If Cox doesn’t mark the ball (which is the majority of the time), his pressure and recovery are basically non existent so it’s an easy rebound for opposition teams.

I would rather back our small brigade up front.

Cox will be 29 years old by the time the next season comes around, an age at which AFL players have peaked. He’s not going to get any quicker either in mind or body, so I can’t see him improving further, just more of the same. And this year was absolutely crap by him.
 

Gabbo64

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For me, Cox is worth the risk. I think the possible upside outweighs the fact that he may just be 2nd ruck only. Consider if the game is in the balance in the last minutes, Cox is not firing as a forward, put him in the ruck and Grundy forward. That may cause some chaos.
 
I’ll go against the grain here.
I’d play Darcy back.
We have Stephenson, Billy, JDG, WHE and even Trav to blast out of the goal square if required.

I love the speed out of the goalsquare too, add a resting Treloar or Adams to that mix and you make the kicker going I50's job a dream
 

jonbe54

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Mark you never make me laugh.

You never vary.

Unrelenting.

Anyway moving on, the forward line is what it is from week to week, there are a number of configurations and they all work in their own fashion.
 
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