Is our gameplan flawed?

[ant555]

For all of those asking what plan B is answer me this question.
How do you think plan B,C or D will work when we continue to turn the footy over and kick poorly for goal. The problem last night was Brisbane got 9.0 from their key forwards and we got 2.4 .
With the form Lucas is in and the disfunction of the forward set up due to injuries there is no way plan B would be any better.

At the end of the day if you turn the footy over you will get caught out. It is not the game plan that is the problem it is the poor exicution when we have the ball that kills us.

One thing they need to do is show a behind the goal DVD of St.kilda v Port from last week. Let the players see how the Saints move up in defence and see how eveyone moves up a spot to pick up a man.
When you watch us on the long shot or live you will notice if one player pushes up the next player usually does not so we end up with the opposition loose at half back while we have a couple of blokes standing around in the middle somewhere with their thumb up their arse.
I know for a fact that the coaching staff do not instruct our players to play like this.
It is time for Knights to put the acid on a few of these downhill skiers and tell them bluntly that is they do not pull their finger out and start doing the team things then they can tell their story walking !!

 

[ant555]

Forward line & delivery to it is what sucks.

Brisbane barely wasted a touch forward of centre. Kick kick handpass from the kickout, kick inside 50 -> mark: goal.

Ridiculous. I know Knights doesn't want to flood back etc but if we were to win that match we'd have sat Dempsey in front of Brown to chop him off. Fight fire with fire

The problem is we have a few players that will not do it.
The midfield is supposed to push back and force the opposition forwards to lead wide but it doesnt always happen.
We do not get enough man on man from the kick outs as players don't seem to pick up in their zone when they are supposed to.

 

[Smokin]

It is not the game plan that is the problem it is the poor exicution when we have the ball that kills us.

This is the key. We are getting enough of the ball, we are controlling enough of the game, but our forwardline is an absolute mess at the moment and what is costing us.

We had 5 or 6 more inside 50's last night, had as many if not more scoring shots for most of the night (until the very end), yet the scoreboard looked like we were getting smashed. In fairness to us, the scoreboard did not reflect the game accurately at all last night.

Many of their set shots were from positions nobody should be getting 90 odd plus percent accuracy from, and they did.

We couldnt hit the side of a barn.

I, like everyone else, am starting to think there is no future with Lucas. We may as well do a michael/johnson, put him out to pasture and give the game time to the future. Right now it is Neagle. Sure, he isnt exactly earning his spot but neither is Scotty on this years form. Daniher is another option, as is Williams I guess. Neagle has a bit of a Fevola look about him, and probably isnt suited to do well in a crowded forwadline like he has had to endure this far in the seniors. Id give him a month or two and see what happens.

Last night wasnt that bad.

 

[Zaka11]

I think Lucas needs to be played from the square where he can go one on one and use his strength. Obviously his speed has diminished quite noticeably. Everytime we went forward there was 2 or 3 lions waiting in the back half. Also the umpires certainly didnt favour us last night, guess thats after last weeks effort!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

gameplan? The gameplan is fine. Any time you just refuse to take your opportunities, and the opposition take every single one of theirs, you will get killed. It's as simple as that.

Some of our misses for goal were embarrassing; whilst the Lions - full credit to them - kicked like millionaires

 

[Kong]

One thing they need to do is show a behind the goal DVD of St.kilda v Port from last week. Let the players see how the Saints move up in defence and see how eveyone moves up a spot to pick up a man.
When you watch us on the long shot or live you will notice if one player pushes up the next player usually does not so we end up with the opposition loose at half back while we have a couple of blokes standing around in the middle somewhere with their thumb up their arse.
I know for a fact that the coaching staff do not instruct our players to play like this.

I have noticed this, and it frustrates me to no end. That was one of the first things I learned to do as a defender in my playing days. Simple stuff; if a player runs up the ground, the next man in line takes his player, and so on. The game v Collingwood had me literally screaming at the TV; I don't understand how our players (and this is not an attack on the defenders as such, but every player with an opponent) can refuse to pick up opposition players when they are moving the ball forwards. I honestly believe anybody who's played football should know that.
Having said that, I'm quite impressed with our young defenders; it's a mentality the entire team seems to posess.

 

[spread eagle]

sudden fall from grace hey whomb? will you now accept we are shite?

 

[Kong]

sudden fall from grace hey whomb? will you now accept we are shite?

Not really. Find me a post where I said we were a great footy team. Your poorly executed dig at me is in response to the infraction I gave you for abusing and baiting other supporters; nothing's changed, I see.

 

[spread eagle]

Your poorly executed infraction was given to me for telling other supporters of this fine club to keep a lid on things after lucky a win. Not to carry on to much because we will come crashing down, like we have.
Dont take things to heart man, its just a game.

 

[Zaka11]

Something i forget to include which you would of picked up on is why did we persist with the man on man from the kick outs. Every time brisbane kicked out they hit a target, in open space. Too often we were 5m behind our opponent. Knights should have tried the zone at least once!

 

[Kong]

Your poorly executed infraction was given to me for telling other supporters of this fine club to keep a lid on things after lucky a win. Not to carry on to much because we will come crashing down, like we have.

Wellll, it wasn't, so don't lie. I've posted a copy of the infraction:
"Your series of posts clearly indicate trolling. There is being realistic, and there is baiting fellow supporters/posters; abusing them and the club.
Examples include:
"Dont be a ****wit man, wake up, we are shit."
"Why carry on like ********s but? Lets be honest, we are just as shit as them."
"You idiot, everyone knows Carlton is the greatest club so far."
Oooh, proven wrong there .

Also, I'll repeat: Find me a post where I said we were a great footy team. Or are you conceding that you're wrong there, too?

 

[james_omahoney]

Time to red card this troll Whomb.

 

[bombre-boy]

As much as i love the run and handball out of trouble, go through the guts when open, it appears we are too one dimensional, and have no plan B.
The MCG is perfect for this as there is a lot more space, but smaller grounds like the Dome, and tonight at the GABBA where we dont have room, our skill errors kill us cos the rebound comes back and the other team out numbers us. How are we gonna hold up the Hawks?

Totally agreed...
Fix the skills and most of the bad things about our game plan will hopefully rectify themselves.
However our forwards form and the structure is not looking that good at the moment.
MAybe when McVeigh comes back into the side eother one of Davey or Lovett can be permnent in the forward line, which will at least put some pressure on the opposition.

We will get hammered by the Hawks..

 

[yaco55]

I've been dubious about the new gameplan before, but I've decided that it's worth a go. I just think the players let it down tonight.

Was it a co-incidence that Winderlich was our best option up forward in the first half? I don't think so. Lucas and Lloyd are too slow to get away with anything other than prefect delivery against a disciplined defence.

Our midfield was absolutly smashed against a very good experienced group, and the run off half back was quite bad. Dempsey for me was really ordinary, and NLM isn't the smartest user of the ball.

On top of that we had no half forward leading options as McPhee was down back and Monfries wasn't doing that well. Without McPhee and others on the half forward providing options we don't get the space between the half-back and forward line that we need for the run and carry to work.

Knights need to rotate Dempsey through the midfield - Dempsey has been tagged at half back the last 2 weeks.

 

[yaco55]

This is the key. We are getting enough of the ball, we are controlling enough of the game, but our forwardline is an absolute mess at the moment and what is costing us.

We had 5 or 6 more inside 50's last night, had as many if not more scoring shots for most of the night (until the very end), yet the scoreboard looked like we were getting smashed. In fairness to us, the scoreboard did not reflect the game accurately at all last night.

Many of their set shots were from positions nobody should be getting 90 odd plus percent accuracy from, and they did.

We couldnt hit the side of a barn.

I, like everyone else, am starting to think there is no future with Lucas. We may as well do a michael/johnson, put him out to pasture and give the game time to the future. Right now it is Neagle. Sure, he isnt exactly earning his spot but neither is Scotty on this years form. Daniher is another option, as is Williams I guess. Neagle has a bit of a Fevola look about him, and probably isnt suited to do well in a crowded forwadline like he has had to endure this far in the seniors. Id give him a month or two and see what happens.

Last night wasnt that bad.

I agree with your summation except for the part about Neagle.

 

[yaco55]

We got it forward plenty of times tonight.

We have no one forward of the centre that can do real damage any more.

Our game plan is working ok except our half forwards can't lead and take marks and we have no one to take a pack mark and put scoreboard pressure.

For once, I agree with Kelvin !

Look at key indicators

- inside 50's are up on last year
- we are conceding less inside 50's

This indicates that our defensive actions are improving and that we are moving the ball more fluently.

Yes, the skill level could be improved ( its not as bad as people are making out ) but the forward line has been dysfunctional.

Goals kicked this year

1 x 7
1 x 9
1 x 10
1 x 13
1 x 16
1 x 17

An average of 12 goals per week.

Lucas and Lloyd have struggled at different times and haven't taken marks they should have. Lucas' kicking is stuffed and Lloyd is going at marginally more than 50 %. Gumbleton is injured, Neagle is struggling, McPhee has been OK but is needed down back.

I believe that we rank 15 or 16th for goal kicking accuracy and because we use the corridor most shots are close to straight in front.

Now we have Hille and Fletcher going down which destroys our structure.

Ideally, we could continue with Ryder and Hooker ( showed good signs ) rucking, but we will be forced to keep Lucas in the side until Hurley and C.Daniher are ready to return to the seniors and Fletcher recovers.

I mentioned in a thread last week that we are 2 injuries away from a meltdown - And now it is down to one injury before meltdown

In summary

Defence - Good
Midfield - Good to V.Good
Forward - Poor

Finally, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the game against Brisbane. As much as Brown was brilliant - after watching a r 2nd replay of the game - their kicking for goal from acute angles was freakish ! This will not occur every week.

 

[spread eagle]

Wellll, it wasn't, so don't lie. I've posted a copy of the infraction:
"Your series of posts clearly indicate trolling. There is being realistic, and there is baiting fellow supporters/posters; abusing them and the club.
Examples include:
"Dont be a ****wit man, wake up, we are shit."
"Why carry on like ********s but? Lets be honest, we are just as shit as them."
"You idiot, everyone knows Carlton is the greatest club so far."
Oooh, proven wrong there .

Also, I'll repeat: Find me a post where I said we were a great footy team. Or are you conceding that you're wrong there, too?

Proven wrong you say? After the way we played on the weekend, I would say I was proven right!!!!!
Also, find me a post where i said anything you saying we were a great team. My post was aimed at you because your the one eyed moderator that tried to keep freedom of speach off a public forum.

 

[james_omahoney]

Proven wrong you say? After the way we played on the weekend, I would say I was proven right!!!!!
Also, find me a post where i said anything you saying we were a great team. My post was aimed at you because your the one eyed moderator that tried to keep freedom of speach off a public forum.

Haha you pulled out the freedom of speech argument when what you've been quoted as saying is derogatory towards your fellow supporters and clearly against the rules of the board. It's part of the agreement when you sign up for bigfooty, is it not? He's just doing his job pal.

 

[Kong]

Haha you pulled out the freedom of speech argument when what you've been quoted as saying is derogatory towards your fellow supporters and clearly against the rules of the board. It's part of the agreement when you sign up for bigfooty, is it not? He's just doing his job pal.

Pretty funny, isn't it? What a fool. He's been comprehensively smashed, and still doesn't get it/won't concede. I've seen too many imbeciles like him on here to know I'm wasting my time.

 

[rines]

I think the gameplan is fine to a point and against certain opposition. My big problem, and I have to disagree with Ant, is we have no other plan. We have no other options. Knights looks absolutely lost most of the time and just shakes his head. EVERY coach knows that Drummond needs to be tagged off half back (just like they did to Dempsey) and yet he ran free and did what ever he liked. Surely when you are getting smashed (and make no mistake we got SMASHED) then you have to have SOME kind of back up. I'm not saying it would work any better than Plan A, but a lack of ideas from the top is disgusting.

Lucas has got to go.. even if fletcher is out.. we can not afford to carry anyone and it was pathetic to watch his performance.

7 years into a "rebuild" and we are no closer to anything.. so disappointing and frustrating. We have had a couple of "lucky" wins and our percentage and "time in front" stats will attest to that.

Too easy to blame the forward line entirely.. our mids are not accountable or damaging enough and our defence is shaky, wobbly and completely outclassed by everybody. We have just been lucky that guys like fev kicked with 20% accuracy.. brown and bradshaw made our sloppy defence pay.. that is the only difference. We have relied on mistakes rather than showing any kind of skill ourselves.

V. frustrated right now....

 

[Kong]

7 years into a "rebuild" and we are no closer to anything.. so disappointing and frustrating. We have had a couple of "lucky" wins and our percentage and "time in front" stats will attest to that.

As a few people have pointed out, we're not 7-years into a rebuild. We began a half-arsed rebuild under Sheedy, and then another once Knights took over at the end of 2007. Simply because we've been out of the finals since 2005 doesn't mean all of those years are part of this rebuild (as well as a few extra years you've added). New coach, new plan, no drafting stratergy, new more topping up etc. This is effectively the second year of our rebuild, unfortunately.

 

[rines]

As a few people have pointed out, we're not 7-years into a rebuild. We began a half-arsed rebuild under Sheedy, and then another once Knights took over at the end of 2007. Simply because we've been out of the finals since 2005 doesn't mean all of those years are part of this rebuild (as well as a few extra years you've added). New coach, new plan, new drafting stratergy, new more topping up etc. This is effectively the second year of a our rebuild, unfortunately.

Yes.. but it feels like I've been the butt of office footy jokes for a very very long time now... and I still don't think we are on the right track.. look at Rich vs Hurley.. that is going to hurt every game I watch for either team for a long time. (I know I know.. judge in 10 years etc etc..)

 

[Kong]

Yes.. but it feels like I've been the butt of office footy jokes for a very very long time now... and I still don't think we are on the right track.. look at Rich vs Hurley.. that is going to hurt every game I watch for either team for a long time. (I know I know.. judge in 10 years etc etc..)

No, judge as of now. Hurley played a super game in shutting both Westhoff and Tredrea down (in a team that lost by 40-points); the latter having kicked 6 goals two games in-a-row since then. The only reason we're not seeing justification right now is Hurley's being guided through an injury. Rich's upside doesn't look much greater than Palmer; and I sure as hell am glad we didn't pick that clanger-king. The only reason I'd be disappointed would be if Hurley were continously injured for the next few seasons, ala Gumbleton. Even then, at least can sit and laugh at the following:
* Carlton overlooking Rich/missing out on Hurley for Chris Yarran (relevant).
* Richmond selecting Richard Tambling over Buddy (ouch).
* Richmond selecting Aaron Fiora over Matthew Pavlich (they could have had Buddy/Pav as their key forwards ).

As for being the butt of office jokes, do you not have Carlton mates? They haven't played finals since the end of 2001. That's laughable. We've also rebuilt without having to resort to "earning" #1 picks one after another, and buying our superstar captain.
However, I feel I'm taking this right off-topic, so I'll leave it at that. My point is, no matter how bad you feel, there's always clubs worse off

 

[Smyth94]

Yes.. but it feels like I've been the butt of office footy jokes for a very very long time now... and I still don't think we are on the right track.. look at Rich vs Hurley.. that is going to hurt every game I watch for either team for a long time. (I know I know.. judge in 10 years etc etc..)

You either have the memory of a gold fish or you didn't watch the Bombers in Round 1

 

[rines]

don't have the memory of a goldfish. you are probably one of the people who still cling to "hodge was a better pick than judd.. really he was.."

and I wasn't saying that hurley won't be good for our club.. I just THINK that we will regret not getting a premium midfielder..