Is political correctness stifling debate?

Gough

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I had a conversation about this with a friend the other day who bemoaned this very thing, but couldn't tell me exactly how it is stifling things. When the phrase is used I always hear old men complaining that they can't say what they want anymore about wogs, or poofters, or women anymore, and it sounds a lot like old fashioned complaining to me, given that much of what they had to say was often incorrect, or downright derogatory. So if PC is stifling debate on a given topic, how is it doing it, and who is it silencing?
 

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fleabitten

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I had a conversation about this with a friend the other day who bemoaned this very thing, but couldn't tell me exactly how it is stifling things. When the phrase is used I always hear old men complaining that they can't say what they want anymore about wogs, or poofters, or women anymore, and it sounds a lot like old fashioned complaining to me, given that much of what they had to say was often incorrect, or downright derogatory. So if PC is stifling debate on a given topic, how is it doing it, and who is it silencing?
I think you're right that a lot of people who complain about PC are just unhappy that they'll be called out as racist for saying racist stuff. But there's definitely some truth to what he's saying when it comes to debates/conversations about certain sensitive topics. It's like there are certain opinions that cannot be challenged without someone throwing out accusations of racism, sexism, homophobia, islamophobia or whatever.

I read yesterday about some baseball commentator that lost his job because he tweeted about transgender men not belonging in female toilets. I think it's a pretty fair point. Do we really want it normalized that a dude can put on a wig and hang out in the same restroom with little girls? It's a legitimate point to raise, but it's perceived as anti-LGBTI and the guy is punished for it.
 

CM86

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I read yesterday about some baseball commentator that lost his job because he tweeted about transgender men not belonging in female toilets. I think it's a pretty fair point. Do we really want it normalized that a dude can put on a wig and hang out in the same restroom with little girls? It's a legitimate point to raise, but it's perceived as anti-LGBTI and the guy is punished for it.
That's a pretty ignorant view...
If that's what he tweeted, I'd expect a backlash.
 

Fire

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That's a pretty ignorant view...
But is it? I mean, he's not saying that transgenders do that. He's saying if you make an exception then the pedophiles could easily put on wigs and use that as an excuse if they are caught loitering in the bathroom.

I'm as open as the next person, but this shouldn't go through for that reason. Not because there is anything wrong with transgenders; but because there is something wrong with SOME people in general. I think if you are going to do this, then you need to go all the way and have unisex toilets. At least then it would be somewhat safer knowing that a father can go in with his daughter.
 

JackOutback

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Nobody has been prevented from engaging in a debate because of political correctness, but they can expect to face consequences if what they say is objectionable or considered offensive. The anti-PC brigade are generally upset exactly because they want to be able to say what they want without fear of consequences. Though there can be a tendency to throw out accusations of racism/sexism/bigotry etc that then leads to a more defensive approach and the debate goes round in circles.
 

CM86

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But is it? I mean, he's not saying that transgenders do that. He's saying if you make an exception then the pedophiles could easily put on wigs and use that as an excuse if they are caught loitering in the bathroom.

I'm as open as the next person, but this shouldn't go through for that reason. Not because there is anything wrong with transgenders; but because there is something wrong with SOME people in general. I think if you are going to do this, then you need to go all the way and have unisex toilets. At least then it would be somewhat safer knowing that a father can go in with his daughter.
Nothing is stopping pedos from doing it now.

But relating pedo fear with transgender is the same bs as relating pedos to gay marriage.

Being transgender doesn't mean you want to molest children.
And there is a huge difference between being transgender, and just puttinf a wig on.

It's fear mongering, divisional clap trap.
 

Todman

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Bomberboyokay

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I read yesterday about some baseball commentator that lost his job because he tweeted about transgender men not belonging in female toilets. I think it's a pretty fair point. Do we really want it normalized that a dude can put on a wig and hang out in the same restroom with little girls?
If that's what his tweet was, he's a ******* idiot.
 

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fleabitten

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If that's what his tweet was, he's a ******* idiot.
I think you're misunderstanding his point. He's not saying that transgender people are dangerous to kids, he's saying that it makes it too easy for pedophiles to get access to kids. I'd have no problems with a fully transitioned transgender woman in a restroom with one of my daughters, but I wouldn't want just any guy that puts on a dress in there. How do they draw a line? As Fire said, just having unisex toilets makes a lot more sense. Why are males and females going to separate toilets in the first place and what really changes when someone identifies as the opposite gender?
 

Procrastinator35

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Yes.....It's terribly torturous to have to find & invent, new & fan-dangled ways to both hide & express my hypocrisy/bigotry & racist/gendered biases.

Fortunately my new lexicon has a p/c screening function, that filters out any of my real thoughts/feelings being expressed.
 

Bomberboyokay

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I think you're misunderstanding his point. He's not saying that transgender people are dangerous to kids, he's saying that it makes it too easy for pedophiles to get access to kids. I'd have no problems with a fully transitioned transgender woman in a restroom with one of my daughters, but I wouldn't want just any guy that puts on a dress in there.
There's nothing stopping weirdos now putting a wig on and going in the other bathroom. Or more likely skipping the wig part entirely.

How do they draw a line? As Fire said, just having unisex toilets makes a lot more sense. Why are males and females going to separate toilets in the first place and what really changes when someone identifies as the opposite gender?
Which is it? You're worried about kids or you want toilets to be unisex?
 
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Tayl0r

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Do we really want it normalized that a dude can put on a wig and hang out in the same restroom with little girls?
I think this world wouldn't be that bad. The fear of men, any man, being near a little girl so that they might molest her is a huge problem in our society.

Young boys need men teaching them in primary school, men need to feel comfortable interacting with stranger children without fear of being labelled a child abuser. The problem is people the child knows, not strangers.

Unisex toilets would be a symptom of a society that recognises bodily functions as a mundane issue, it isn't anxious about any possible sexualisation of something that it must be kept away - near shamefully hidden away.

The human body does things.

I would like to assume someone isn't a molester rather than the current paradigm of suspecting first, just in case.
 

The Passenger

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It will be interesting when a male who has transitioned, now wants to compete in women's sports, and in particular become a professional athlete. That will challenge a few people's beliefs.

What would happen if it were someone who could see he wasn't going to progress beyond middle of the range pro tennis player (say world 100 to 150), decided to take advantage of this situation...
 

fleabitten

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There's nothing stopping weirdos now putting a wig on and going in the other bathroom. Or more likely skipping the wig part entirely.
Sure, but if someone sees a guy doing that, if a woman walks in and there's a guy in the bathroom, she can notify security or the police. She'd be more hesitant to do that if it was considered anti-Trans because she might end up all over social media being labelled as a bigot. So kids are a little less safe because it's politically incorrect to keep a suspicious eye on the man wearing a dress in the ladies room.

Which is it? You're worried about kids or you want toilets to be unisex?
I'm not worried about anything, it's just an example of a conversation that can get shut down in the way described.
 

Todman

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As Fire said, just having unisex toilets makes a lot more sense. Why are males and females going to separate toilets in the first place ?
Because 90% of the time the men are just spraying the urinal wall.
 

CM86

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It will be interesting when a male who has transitioned, now wants to compete in women's sports, and in particular become a professional athlete. That will challenge a few people's beliefs.
kirsti

What would happen if it were someone who could see he wasn't going to progress beyond middle of the range pro tennis player (say world 100 to 150), decided to take advantage of this situation...
If someone is going to go through the surgery and years of hormone therapy to become a woman for the rest of their life... I don't think it's really taking advantage of a situation...
 

WA ROO

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It will be interesting when a male who has transitioned, now wants to compete in women's sports, and in particular become a professional athlete. That will challenge a few people's beliefs.

What would happen if it were someone who could see he wasn't going to progress beyond middle of the range pro tennis player (say world 100 to 150), decided to take advantage of this situation...
Fallon Fox is fighting and seriously injuring women in MMA
Born a male had gender reassignment surgery at the age of 31
 

Scotland

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Yes, yes and yes.

When the phrase is used I always hear old men complaining that they can't say what they want anymore about wogs, or poofters, or women anymore
This isn't it, though. In the 1990s it was OK (well, more accurately no one spoke up about it) to call Nicky Winmar or Chris Lewis a boong or an abo. Now it is not. That isn't political correctness, it's progress.

These days we are outraged about ******* everything. See the yellow peril thread. Easter eggs are sold without 'Easter' marketing. Schools don't celebrate Christmas for fear of offending someone. I was a kid in the 1990s. If you didn't celebrate Christmas or Easter then you didn't celebrate them. The onus wasn't on everyone else to abandon cultural traditions for fear of someone's feelings getting hurt.

If you criticise anyone that isn't a white, straight, middle class male for anything then someone, somewhere will get on their soapbox and drag race, sex, gender, sexuality, religion etc. into it. It's tiresome and absolutely stifles debate.
 
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