Is political correctness stifling debate?

ShanDog

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So you have no personal belief where the line could be drawn? You must have a set of violent events that you deem justified and a set that you deem not justified.
Of course, but they are all determined by the context of the situation, which is basically endless possibilities.

As a broad rule, words aren't violence so responding to word with actual violence can rarely - if ever - be justified. Aside from that, it's very grey as far as morality goes. People, scholars and philosophers have debated these questions forever.
 

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Steinfreo

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Of course, but they are all determined by the context of the situation, which is basically endless possibilities.

As a broad rule, words aren't violence so responding to word with actual violence can rarely - if ever - be justified. Aside from that, it's very grey as far as morality goes. People, scholars and philosophers have debated these questions forever.
Words are never in a bubble like that, they are always accompanied by power or action.
 

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HurleyHepsHird

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I was clearly referring to the purported ubiquitousness of Nazis.


Read. Think.
There is a large and sustained base for white nationalism in the US, which long pre-dates the Nazis.

In fact racist, nationalist and fascist groups would have exponentially higher support and membership than the largest leftwing political group, the DSA, which IIRC has only 70-80k members. A fraction of which are active.

However Europe has openly white supremacist leaders in positions of power like Orban, or recently deposed due to scandal like Hanz Christian Strache. Read. Think.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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Don't you think the defence that they aren't actual Nazis is a pretty weak one?
It's a weird game where they think if they define "Nazi" on explicit and narrow historical terms, the rest of white nationalists just evaporate.

You can be part of an explicitly pro-Nazi party like Strache, or adopt Nazi paraphernalia like many American groups, but if you don't call your party the Nazi party, or don't use Swastikas for symbols it doesn't count. And the only white nationalists are Nazis (in their mind), so therefore white nationalism doesn't exist.
 

ShanDog

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There is a large and sustained base for white nationalism in the US, which long pre-dates the Nazis.

In fact racist, nationalist and fascist groups would have exponentially higher support and membership than the largest leftwing political group, the DSA, which IIRC has only 70-80k members. A fraction of which are active.

However Europe has openly white supremacist leaders in positions of power like Orban, or recently deposed due to scandal like Hanz Christian Strache. Read. Think.
I'm aware of the origins of groups like the KKK, which aren't actually as clear cut as many think. There are also groups out there who you could define as fascist in nature, or based in racism. Similarly, you can find left wing groups who are communists, socialists, eco-radicals etc. They are ALL very very small in relative numbers to the vast majority of non-racist, non-hateful people who fall somewhere on the normal left/right political spectrum. This is reality and I've not claimed anything different.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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I'm aware of the origins of groups like the KKK, which aren't actually as clear cut as many think. There are also groups out there who you could define as fascist in nature, or based in racism. Similarly, you can find left wing groups who are communists, socialists, eco-radicals etc. They are ALL very very small in relative numbers to the vast majority of non-racist, non-hateful people who fall somewhere on the normal left/right political spectrum. This is reality and I've not claimed anything different.
You are actually delusional.

When presented with direct evidence of openly white nationalist political leaders, in Strache's case, a historical party actually tied to the German Nazi party, you just shrug, offer up some "both sides" platitudes and put your fingers in your ears.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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ShanDog

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You are actually delusional.

When presented with direct evidence of openly white nationalist political leaders, in Strache's case, a historical party actually tied to the German Nazi party, you just shrug, offer up some "both sides" platitudes and put your fingers in your ears.
No, you're shifting the goalposts. I was NEVER talking about political leaders, but you've pivoted to include that and are now trying to make it the crux of the argument in order to paint me as an apologist of some kind. You are the personification of textbook bad faith discussion.
 

Steinfreo

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You are actually delusional.

When presented with direct evidence of openly white nationalist political leaders, in Strache's case, a historical party actually tied to the German Nazi party, you just shrug, offer up some "both sides" platitudes and put your fingers in your ears.
Hes not delusional hes a 'logicbro' Shapiro disciple. Hes good at these in the moment meaningless tit for tat facebook style arguments. Read Ben Burgis new book, he debunks basically every Shapiro/Shandog argument, its worth discussing these topics but when you go away and start reading yourself you realise just how feeble these guys are including the logicbro heros like Shapiro.

The odd thing is 'logic' was for the last 150 years the driving force behind the left, s**t einstein was a socialist (not that that means much but its still a nice feather in our cap), its only recently that the concept of 'logic' has been co-oped by the right.
 

ShanDog

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Hes not delusional hes a 'logicbro' Shapiro disciple. Hes good at these in the moment meaningless tit for tat facebook style arguments. Read Ben Burgis new book, he debunks basically every Shapiro/Shandog argument, its worth discussing these topics but when you go away and start reading yourself you realise just how feeble these guys are including the logicbro heros like Shapiro.

The odd thing is 'logic' was for the last 150 years the driving force behind the left, s**t einstein was a socialist (not that that means much but its still a nice feather in our cap), its only recently that the concept of 'logic' has been co-oped by the right.
Ah, now I'm a Shapiro bro. You really can't accept the notion of someone thinking for themselves, being heterodox in their ideology and taking each situation as unique and nuanced.

I think I've listened to a Shapiro podcast / show twice in my life. He is too socially and politically conservative for my liking but can respect the basis of a lot of his views. Which, it goes without saying, isn't tacit approval or agreement with them...

Find a new box.
 
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