Is political correctness stifling debate?

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Snake_Baker

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Academic walks away because he would not engage in scientific lies:

 

Patrick Bullet

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What are we looking at here?
That dude is one of the grievance studies hoax guys. He's been very active lately in identifying and promoting the issues with what he calls Critical Social Justice (CSJ). Essentially he claims that Critical Social Justice, which has its origins in Critical Theory and Post-Modernism, appears on the surface to be a lot like Social Justice but actually does very little for promoting social justice in practice. Instead, they co-opted the social justice terms, and a lot of other language to impose their version of the truth onto the world. He claims that this ideology has taken over schools and academia over the years. Politically, he self-identifies as a progressive Liberal, but now describes himself as politically homeless.

If you are interested in these topic (Critical Social Justice, political correctness, deplatforming and so forth), he is a good person to pay attention to because he's one of the few that really has done his homework on this stuff. He gets labelled Nazi, white supremacist, racist, misogynist and is routinely straw-manned by the CSJ mob and he explains that this is one of their tactics to ensure groupthink and compliance with their ideology. Because of this (and his attitude on Twitter), it might feel at first glance he's just another neo-con, when in fact, he believes the liberal left has the answers to society's problems. At least that's what he claims, and after following his work for a bit, I am inclined to believe him.

If you have the time, here's a video where he discusses some of the issues with CSJ. The first part is a bit confusing because he discusses a whole bunch of philosophies/ideologies and it is a bit hard to follow, so you can skip the first 10-15 mins if you're finding it hard to take - it gets more concrete later.

If you prefer articles, then you might prefer to read some of the materials hosted on aero magazine and their new website:

Honestly, the Critical Theory stuff is so freaking abstract with many ill-defined terms, and unless you know who's who in the philosophy zoo, all the names of the people involved over time get a bit confusing. It has taken me several goes to get my head around his work (and the work of his collaborators, Peter Boghossian and Helen Pluckrose), and I can't yet point to one single place where it is really spelled out clearly; part of the problem is that critical theory is so damn abstract, unfalsifiable, and ever-changing. But if you are interested in this topic, I urge you to delve in with an open mind. It took me several weeks to get what he is saying, so I predict that it might rub people up the wrong way at first.
 

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ShanDog

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part of the problem is that critical theory is so damn abstract, unfalsifiable, and ever-changing.
That's the main rub - many of the theories are inherently unfalsifiable. Not only does that make them un-scientific (even by social science standards), they are effectively just academic Kafkatraps.
 

kickazz

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On a positive note, another great commentary from the antithesis of political correctness, Ricky Gervais:


After this is over I never want to hear people moaning about the welfare state again, I never want to hear people moaning about nurses again. Or porters.

These people are doing 14-hour shifts and not complaining. Wearing masks, and being left with sores, after risking their own health and their families' health selflessly.

But then I see someone complaining about being in a mansion with a swimming pool. And, you know, honestly, I just don't want to hear it.

This guy gets it. Yes, he tells jokes about queers and disableds and Anne Frank. But they are jokes.

Whilst all these other celebs virtue signal and cry in their mansions, saying the "right" things and doing God knows what, here is a guy who pays his taxes, understands that actions speak much louder than words and has some effing perspective on life and respect for it.

Keep fighting the good fight, Ricky.
 

Rusty Brookes

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On a positive note, another great commentary from the antithesis of political correctness, Ricky Gervais:





This guy gets it. Yes, he tells jokes about queers and disableds and Anne Frank. But they are jokes.

Whilst all these other celebs virtue signal and cry in their mansions, saying the "right" things and doing God knows what, here is a guy who pays his taxes, understands that actions speak much louder than words and has some effing perspective on life and respect for it.

Keep fighting the good fight, Ricky.
The thing with Ricky is he also an ardent critic of religion, he's a supporter of gay rights, etc. Wish there were more people like him.
 

Pessimistic

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On a positive note, another great commentary from the antithesis of political correctness, Ricky Gervais:





This guy gets it. Yes, he tells jokes about queers and disableds and Anne Frank. But they are jokes.

Whilst all these other celebs virtue signal and cry in their mansions, saying the "right" things and doing God knows what, here is a guy who pays his taxes, understands that actions speak much louder than words and has some effing perspective on life and respect for it.

Keep fighting the good fight, Ricky.
The celebs are sh*t scared of being forgotten. Simply being known is something they can convert to dollars
but really, we need Kath n Kim to tell us what to think in coronavirus times
 

Mofra

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I should have been a bit clearer. People that support that stuff but are not on the politically correct bandwagon. My opinion is the political correctness (in it's extreme form) can be detrimental to the causes it supposedly supports.
Practically anything in its extreme form is dangerous.
 

Groin guru

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The World Health Organization’s ‘Standards for Sexuality Education in Europe: A framework for policymakers, educational and health authorities and specialists’

The WHO advises that children aged 0-4 are given “information about enjoyment and pleasure when touching one’s body… masturbation.

Toddlers are also to be encouraged to gain an awareness of gender identity and given “the right to explore gender identities.”

In the ages 4-6 bracket, educators are urged to give information about same-sex relationships and “help children develop respect for different norms regarding sexuality.”

*Interesting to note that people posting this are being banned on social media. So it looks like criticising WHO is banned, not just WHO's Covid19 information...:drunk:

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https://www.bzga-whocc.de/fileadmin/user_upload/WHO_BZgA_Standards_English.pdf

Sounds like it's right out of the Pizzagate curriculum. I wonder who else they'll have in mind to teach children about same-sex relationships and gender identity...*Cough* Drag queen storytime *Cough*

Based on where we are heading I guarantee this sort of sh*t will be the norm in the future:



desensitising pedophilia...:drunk::drunk::mad:
 

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Mofra

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As lunatic as those views may seem, I'm not sure posting videos of debates that we would not have once had is a very effective way to argue that political correctness is stifling debate.
If anything, the trend is the opposite. With the explosion of media and the ability of anyone to self-public their thoughts via mass communication devices we have more debate now than ever before.
 

Noidenous

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As lunatic as those views may seem, I'm not sure posting videos of debates that we would not have once had is a very effective way to argue that political correctness is stifling debate.
If anything, the trend is the opposite. With the explosion of media and the ability of anyone to self-public their thoughts via mass communication devices we have more debate now than ever before.
Oh, you mean like debates about the UK grooming gangs that get flushed from social media?

Nice progress you have there.

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Mofra

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Oh, you mean like debates about the UK grooming gangs that get flushed from social media?

Nice progress you have there.

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I'm not making a judgement call on the quality of debate, nor the topics of debate.
I'm merely responding to the premise that debate is being stifled. Overall there is more debate now if you consider the explosion in data transmission globally that has close to doubled every few years this century.
 

Noidenous

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I'm not making a judgement call on the quality of debate, nor the topics of debate.
I'm merely responding to the premise that debate is being stifled. Overall there is more debate now if you consider the explosion in data transmission globally that has close to doubled every few years this century.
Yet it is restricted to what is politically acceptable.
 

Leeda

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Academic walks away because he would not engage in scientific lies:

and that is laterally untruthful.. u know that heaven only allows us to smack those who are not cognisant.. or else that we .. okay..
 

Leeda

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just want to say that beards are altogether not a sign of information..

the beard just says that.. we don't care.. we dot the i'ss and eh the Teese...
let yay be automatic.. and then shuddering the life force..

I know.. I know.. I know... gather the people and they will ride with you..
 

Noidenous

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So you support van Diemens being able to express her views
Her views are out and out lunacy, fresh out of todays Social Science classroom, but the default answer is yes.

Before anyone thinks they have a gotcha moment, identifying a comment as lunacy is not political correctness.
 

ShanDog

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Looks like Google has privately settled with James Damore over his firing a few years ago:


A lawyer for the men, Harmeet Dhillon, said they’re prohibited as part of their agreement with Google from saying anything beyond what’s in Thursday’s court filing. Google declined to comment.

Damore was fired from Google in 2017 after he wrote a memo arguing that innate differences between the sexes might explain why women are underrepresented at the internet giant and other tech companies. He sued the company the following year, alleging that it allows discrimination against conservative white men.


Bit of a shame it didn't go to trial.

Among all the pontifications regarding political correctness, this was a high profile case that actually addressed the stifling of speech and debate, also resulting in someone being fired.

The worst thing about this is that what he wrote was not malicious in th slightest, and was actually an attempt at improving the situation for women's representation in tech.

Actually, the worst thing is that so many people are tribalistic and closed-minded in their support for their "side" that they still think what he wrote was malevolent.
 

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