Is political correctness stifling debate?

Mofra

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This is not a first amendment thing Gough.

Rather, one feels oppressed when entering a discussion where the responses are likely to be: BIGOT!

I feel there are many who wish to debate certain topics, but posters on the left just play the man from the outset.

It is traumatic and offensive. One feels like he is going to PC hell just for expressing an opinion.

This is not about calling people wogs or sheilas or silly old poofters. Whole topics are now off limits. It is not politically correct to even discuss immigration, for example.

I think we should reduce immigration numbers because......RACIST!

We have an issue with sudanese street gangs....RACIST!

I went to a Jordan Peterson concert....NAZI!

The wage gap is...SEXIST!

Sometimes I can't sleep at night, such is my concern.

It reminds me of the time we had to put down a beloved family pet. The animal was sick and suffering. The reality of its condition had to be confronted and dealt with. Even though it wasn't a nice situation, the only humane outcome was to put it to sleep.

Now, imagine how I would have felt if I had taken the cat to the vet, and the assistant yelled MURDERER!
So your real issue is with other people's free speech, in what you think people might say to you?

Glad we cleared that up.
 

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EasternTiger

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Tiger if you want to withdraw yourself from the debate because you’re unhappy with the level of criticism, that’s your choice. You’re not being stifled.

The other day I felt the accusations of supporting th beating of a gay Asian immigrant was unfair, but I wasn’t stifled . I was called racist, but I wasn’t stifled.

You have been freely expressing your opinions on immigration and others are free to offer theirs and criticise yours.
I have zero problem with robust discussion and criticism.

Look I understand how social media works:

Conflict=Clicks

I get it. I support it. More power to those who benefit from it.

The problem as I see it is most of you at Bigfooty don't just criticise the post or the opinion expressed within, you attack the poster personally ie you play the man.

The point is you would get a far better debate if you dropped the NAZI labels and nonsense like 'Oh you hate black people. You want to oppress minorities' and discussed the matter in a civil manner more conducive to a discussion that a lurker can follow and genuinely say they learned something from both sides.
 

Bradesmaen

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I have zero problem with robust discussion and criticism.

Look I understand how social media works:

Conflict=Clicks

I get it. I support it. More power to those who benefit from it.

The problem as I see it is most of you at Bigfooty don't just criticise the post or the opinion expressed within, you attack the poster personally ie you play the man.

The point is you would get a far better debate if you dropped the NAZI labels and nonsense like 'Oh you hate black people. You want to oppress minorities' and discussed the matter in a civil manner more conducive to a discussion that a lurker can follow and genuinely say they learned something from both sides.
The issue with this is that when people post the same arguments over and over again when they have been debunked or criticised for a lack of fact checking etc, you can tend to attack the person similar in the way that people can be questioned in court towards character. Your character makes up a big part of your argument and as such people can argue that as well. Basically you're saying if someone posts something racist, biased, stupid etc you can't call them out on it.
 

Steinfreo

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Daily alert: This is a waste of energy, lefties need to stop being the priest excommunicating the vampires. There is no problem solving to be done here. When the working class beings to ask the right questions of the 1% and structural change begins to occur, you might start to see the white racist warehouse operator showing solidarity with the Pakistani uber driver, showing solidarity with the transvestite barrister. The 1% has tricked use into the petit-bourgeois mentality where we all only see the individual alienated from the 'big other'.

Once the racist warehouse operator discovers that the commodification of his labour has more in common with the barrister and uber driver, rather than the delivery company CEO (fu** you Jeff Bezo) or youtube celebrity you will see these racial and cultural divides begin to dissolve. A reinterpretation of what labour is and how is related to power and economics is needed, not endless cyclical debates about whos a snow flake and whos a racist.
 

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FireKraquora

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Antifa must be doing an incredible job of being so prominent in the minds of conservatives. I doubt I've ever met anyone who is a part of it.
It's a US thing m8. But since 2016 this board is more concerned with seppo politics than domestic stuff.

Having said that, instead of the concern being about Antifa members themselves here, it's more about people who sympathise with them, of which there are many on this board. "They are a response to the rise of fascism"... talk about fighting fire with fire!
 

Demons09

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I have zero problem with robust discussion and criticism.

Look I understand how social media works:

Conflict=Clicks

I get it. I support it. More power to those who benefit from it.

The problem as I see it is most of you at Bigfooty don't just criticise the post or the opinion expressed within, you attack the poster personally ie you play the man.

The point is you would get a far better debate if you dropped the NAZI labels and nonsense like 'Oh you hate black people. You want to oppress minorities' and discussed the matter in a civil manner more conducive to a discussion that a lurker can follow and genuinely say they learned something from both sides.
Sounds like something ANTIFA would do , tbh i dont think KV even believes what he or she is writing, be right up there for the biggest troll award if there was on BF.
 

Mofra

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It's a US thing m8. But since 2016 this board is more concerned with seppo politics than domestic stuff.

Having said that, instead of the concern being about Antifa members themselves here, it's more about people who sympathise with them, of which there are many on this board. "They are a response to the rise of fascism"... talk about fighting fire with fire!
It's ironic, because the 'fight violence with violence' message is basically western foreign policy supported by conservatives and a number of progressives as well.
Most ideologies have inconsistencies in them.
 

FireKraquora

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It's ironic, because the 'fight violence with violence' message is basically western foreign policy supported by conservatives and a number of progressives as well.
Most ideologies have inconsistencies in them.
Very true. Fortunately the younger generation (the "new right" etc) seem to be quite anti-interventionism.

I fear that the problem is when anti-war leaders get in, the intelligence agencies open the books to them and show them that military activity is essential to the economy, energy supply etc, that it is for the "greater good".
 

Mofra

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Very true. Fortunately the younger generation (the "new right" etc) seem to be quite anti-interventionism.

I fear that the problem is when anti-war leaders get in, the intelligence agencies open the books to them and show them that military activity is essential to the economy, energy supply etc, that it is for the "greater good".
The US military-industrial complex is enormous and (anecdotally) spend more than even their healthcare private operators on Washington lobbyists.

That's if anti-war leaders ever could be elected, which in the current 'democracy for sale' climate in the US (and spreading throughout the west) I doubt. Trudeau is a dud, the French have increased arms sales to Saudi Arabia as much (if not moreso) than the US have, Putin (as a virtual dictator) now has closed markets for their weapons programs to both Syria and Iran.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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The US military-industrial complex is enormous and (anecdotally) spend more than even their healthcare private operators on Washington lobbyists.

That's if anti-war leaders ever could be elected, which in the current 'democracy for sale' climate in the US (and spreading throughout the west) I doubt. Trudeau is a dud, the French have increased arms sales to Saudi Arabia as much (if not moreso) than the US have, Putin (as a virtual dictator) now has closed markets for their weapons programs to both Syria and Iran.
The West literally created the problems the world has with Islamic extremism.

I don't mean that in the abstract sense, or the "this is what happens when you create massive poverty and turmoil sense", I mean in the very real, the US and UK helped fund and spread Wahhabism/Salafism to millions of people.

Wahhabism was a tiny and heretical fringe movement. The British first propped up it's adherents by lifting what were essentially nomads out of the desert, then installing them as a regime in a state created out of thin air. Why? Because the West needed friendly rulers to mind both the holy sites, and the oil they wanted access to on the Arabian peninsula. During the early 20th century, the existent rise of Arab nationalism, combined with the spread of socialist redistributive policies meant potential nationalisation of resources.

The US, UK and France were apoplectic. The US's solution, de-legitimise and undermine Arab unity, secularism and quasi socialism and replace it with religious fanaticism. The latter resulted in theocratic regimes, that the West could work with. To do this they allied strongly with the most extreme and politically religious Arab factions. Gave them access to Western banking and financial markets to help fund Madrassa, Mosques and ideologically aligned groups to spread Wahhabi ideology and financially support a network which would radicalise extremists throughout the Islamic world. As the Cold War heated up, intervention became more direct. Western nations, for example the US in Afghanistan, trained, armed and funded extremists themselves. They also applied direct pressure to the KSA to promote fanatics within the royal hierarchy and to more aggressively spread Wahhabism.

And the US has largely succeeded. They have helped cultivate region wide extremism. Destabilised states that kept it in check. Trained, armed and funded fanatics on the ground and made their theocratic backers in Qatar, the KSA and the UAE fabulously wealthy, legitimising them on the world stage, integrated them into the Western/European financial system, and gave them global reach to spread their religious vision. And where Western intervention has finally collapsed states with radicalised pockets of the population, it has created refugee crisis, where many normal, downtrodden waves of migrants sadly have the odd individual indoctrinated into this ideology.

If the right didn't want this to happen, then why have they worked so hard for the last century to create this situation? From Nixon to Trump, the same methods and allies are still in favour.
 
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Echoes

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I agree.

Sincerity would have been taking to his attackers with a bat.
Agreed.

The way the same snakes who were on here a week ago claiming not be Antifa apologists, are now bouncing in glee in there rush to squeal shrieks of condemnation over the sight of a few sunburnt old poms essentially doing fu** all, says it all really.
 

Echoes

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Why haven't there been pages and pages written by now condemning Robinson and his followers as terrorists or enemies of western civilization?
Oh I don’t know, because a handful of Tommy’s people losing there s**t after his verdict, is fu** all on the political violence scumbag scale, in comparison to what we have seen from your mates in Antifa over the past couple of years?
 
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