Is Richmond a genuine threat in 2021?

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NicW

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A) I’d rather be in the mix every year than not.

B) The only way that would be at all relevant is if there was an available coach during that period who would have done better. Chances are there wasn’t.
A) Being in the mix is pointless if you are making up the numbers.
B) Or a coach that didn't panic and play players out of position in finals.
 

RichLeMonde

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The ultimate pisstake is suggesting Richmond should replace Hardwick with David Teague.....

I fully endorse an end of 2016 review, where they basically built an entire new support system of assistants behind Hardwick, and we won 3 of the next 4 flags. Obviously that same strike rate won't happen again, but a rebuild of the assistant coach group will help.
Yes I was joking about Teague obviously. I think it’s harder to stack the assistant coaches these days due to shrinking soft cap. Not sure a full review can yield the same results as in previous years. Senior coaches all have their strengths and weaknesses. Don’t get me wrong - Dimma obviously has plenty of strengths. I just don’t think he is a master tactician, and in the new era of decreased football departments, I think a senior coach can’t outsource or delegate as much as they previously could. Some senior coaches are completely driven by the tactical side - Clarko and Ross the Boss spring to mind, even Buckley (which is not to say they are good at all other facets of coaching). I think, right now, Richmond need to prioritise a tactical coach, ahead of a great player developer, or people manager, culture builder, relationship builder or anything else.

Edit: he signed a contract extension thus year to the end of 2024 (which will take him to 16 years in the role) so all the above is froth and bubbles anyway
 
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PzBlinky

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Season ended when Nankervis got injured
Yep. For all the injuries the Tigers have had, this one hurts the most by far.

His ability to get back and take relieving marks has been missed big time, remember him being the rock that just kept stopping Port in that last quarter of the 2020 PF.

Might've made a difference not just in the ruck, but in slowing the oppo momentum in the last quarter fade outs over the last few weeks.

Making finals would have been irrelevant if he wasn't playing.
 

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nineteen eighty

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The ultimate pisstake is suggesting Richmond should replace Hardwick with David Teague.....

I fully endorse an end of 2016 review, where they basically built an entire new support system of assistants behind Hardwick, and we won 3 of the next 4 flags. Obviously that same strike rate won't happen again, but a rebuild of the assistant coach group will help.
Agreed.

What is interesting to me is that Leppa wasn't replaced at the end of last year. So we basically don't have a defensive coach. Not sure which of our other assistants has it covered. The soft cap is biting us. Hardwick would be in the upper percentile of well paid coaches. A review may need to realign our coaching priorities over summer.

And yes, injuries have played a part in this.

As has game plan (we're not back at 2016 standards but definitely something is not gelling out on the park).

As has hunger (or lack of) after so much success.

As has teams working us out.

As has our inability to adjust to the new rules.

It's not just one thing.

Anyway, like I've said since the Swans smashed us, it's been a hell of a ride and I wouldn't swap it for the world. Some of you little sh1t's are lining up to take pot shots and that's cool. Some Tiger supporters have been very loud over the last 4-5 years and fair enough that some comes back...with interest. Still doesn't change a thing. The joy we have felt since that August '17 (it all came together a month before the '17 finals when Townsend went down forward and kicked bags of goals) has been immense. I will take with me to my grave the joy I felt with my 1 year old, then 2 then 3 and spending time with her at the Grannies.
 

PhatBoy

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Yes it does, your unwavering love of Scott and

Nah I didn't say that,
But surely you're going to have to finally admit Scott just doesn't have it in him if another finals series goes begging
Why would that be the case? If the Dogs or Demons go on a tear, win their last half dozen games, win both the QF and PF by 60 points then defeat Geelong by a kick or two in the grand final, is that a sign that he just doesn’t have it in him or that in fact he simply got beaten by a stronger opponent on the day?
 

PhatBoy

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A) Being in the mix is pointless if you are making up the numbers.
B) Or a coach that didn't panic and play players out of position in finals.
So every coach of every team ranked 2-18 each year should go.

Gotcha.

And yeah I’m sure in years to come looking back at the recent era, the analysis for why we didn’t win a flag between 2012-2020 will be our use of Rhys Stanley and Mark Blicavs, the two biggest names in the sport
 

WillHayward

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Tiges should go the half tank now.

If players are playing injured and need surgery then get it done now.

Try some younger guys in different positions.

Try some different game styles.

Have some fun.

3 flags and 4 long finals campaigns in a row
Have earnt the right.

Then come back next year fresh and ready.
 
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geelong_crazy26

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And actually you blokes were lucky to win that. Umps handed you that win. We have won games with injuries this year aswell. I'm saying it's taken its toll. I'm not saying it's the only reason we are losing. Age, form are other factors. Just there was a 6 week period with our entire midfield plus nank out.

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I take pride in that Brisbane game. To have so many star players missing and still get over the line, regardless of an umpiring mistake, is a sign of a quality team.
 

geelong_crazy26

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Hardwick left Tyrone Vickery in the ruck for 10 min against Carlton in an elimination final in 2013. In that 10 min Judd had about 8 clearances and Carlton kicked about 5 goals. He had a long record of having a plan A, and if it didn’t work he had no plan B. He was slow to react in the box, which wasn’t an issue against weaker teams, but a huge issue in finals against decent teams. It’s part of why Richmond lost finals in ‘13, ‘14, and ‘15.

You give all the credit for Richmond’s game plan during ‘17-‘20 to Hardwick. It was assistants like Caracella, Leppitsch and Rutten initially, and then later Adam Kingsley and Craig McCrae, who did the crucial work. It was Kingsley who made the adjustments to our stoppage set up after we were belted by Brisbane in the first final last year. It was Caracella and Leppa who drove our style of smothering defence and turnovers in the middle and forward half.

All of those guys are gone now except Kingsley, who for some unfathomable reason has been moved from midfield to backs. Caracella and Rutten are now at eseendon. Let me ask you: who has looked like they’ve had a better system in 2021, Richmond or Essendon?

I don’t expect you to know all that stuff as you don’t follow the team, but maybe don’t mouth off if you don’t know what you’re talking about
unless you have proof to back up such assumptions.. I am going to call this just delusional posting about all these claims about who is calling the shots and creating what behind the scenes. I have heard this line over and over every time someone wants to discredit a coach, you start hearing the talk how it’s all the assistants who did the job.

I have got news for you, every premiership team has outstanding assistants, it’s impossible not to given the responsibility and work placed on assistant coaches. So you can just about discredit any senior coach to have coached a premiership in similar fashion then.

the credit for game plan development has to go to the senior coach at the end of it all, unless you have articles or direct quotes stating otherwise.

I am sorry to break it to you as well, but Richmond don’t have a superior list the ilk of geelong Brisbane hawthorn did during their flags. I think majority of AFL fans would agree on that. It was a premiership built off a clever game plan that was largely muscle work as opposed to skill polish and class.

so to suggest the senior coach of a triple premiership team that literally built a dynasty around a clever game plan and execution as opposed to talent, to label him as a poor tactical coach really screams delusion.
 

Percel

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Agreed.
I will take with me to my grave the joy I felt with my 1 year old, then 2 then 3 and spending time with her at the Grannies.
Love this, memories for life, and you got enjoy some success. End of the day, you got to live what we all want to live in our footy journeys, and three times no less
 

Football Tragic

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This year is shot. I hope they play the kids and unearth some more gems in the process. We have a strong draft hand this year also, so next year I could see us leaping up the ladder once again with a better draw and refreshed list.

Regardless though, its hard to be angry or upset with our performance slump this year given all the success we've had. That's something no one can ever take away from us. :thumbsu::D:trophy::trophy::trophy:
 

RichLeMonde

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unless you have proof to back up such assumptions.. I am going to call this just delusional posting about all these claims about who is calling the shots and creating what behind the scenes. I have heard this line over and over every time someone wants to discredit a coach, you start hearing the talk how it’s all the assistants who did the job.

I have got news for you, every premiership team has outstanding assistants, it’s impossible not to given the responsibility and work placed on assistant coaches. So you can just about discredit any senior coach to have coached a premiership in similar fashion then.

the credit for game plan development has to go to the senior coach at the end of it all, unless you have articles or direct quotes stating otherwise.

I am sorry to break it to you as well, but Richmond don’t have a superior list the ilk of geelong Brisbane hawthorn did during their flags. I think majority of AFL fans would agree on that. It was a premiership built off a clever game plan that was largely muscle work as opposed to skill polish and class.

so to suggest the senior coach of a triple premiership team that literally built a dynasty around a clever game plan and execution as opposed to talent, to label him as a poor tactical coach really screams delusion.
This is my last reply to you on the basis that it’s never good to argue with a fool.

Google “Caracella behind Richmond’s game plan”.

a lot of the articles are pay walled so I won’t post the links.

they all make the point I’m making. This stuff is widely reported on.

I’ll just give you one opening line, to give a sense of the flavour of these articles:

“The ‘tactical genius’ credited as the architect of Richmond’s drought-breaking premiership game plan Blake Caracella…” (Herald-Sun 7 Oct 2017)

there’s also an abundance of articles about the effects of the Richmond assistants who went to Essendon.

I’m not going to do any other searches but Kingsley was reported in the papers as the architect behind the changes in the clearance set up after the Brisbane finals loss and the success in stoppage play in the following weeks.

try and read a bit more, so that you have some knowledge about the topics you are arguing about, rather than just ranting and making completely generic, non-specific points
 

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Farang83150

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So many tiger fans blaming injuries, WC supporters were constantly told it's no excuse....🤣
BOOHOO....we don't like going there said hardprik!!
 

juss

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Which loss mathematically finishes our season?
We know it's over in reality, but I'm curious as to when the club can accept it and play the kids officially, send players in for early surgery, etc.
 

juss

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This year is shot. I hope they play the kids and unearth some more gems in the process. We have a strong draft hand this year also, so next year I could see us leaping up the ladder once again with a better draw and refreshed list.

Regardless though, its hard to be angry or upset with our performance slump this year given all the success we've had. That's something no one can ever take away from us. :thumbsu::D:trophy::trophy::trophy:
100% there are many trying to sink the boots in. Really? We've been better than any other team over the last few years and it's not even close, and have won more flags in 4 years than some clubs in 20, 50, or their entire existence.
There were times I never thought I'd see a flag in my life, some people won't. We got to experience the best Richmond period we might ever have over the last few years and witness a great example of a champion team and multiple club greats and walk up AFL HOFers..
 

Bont2Bruce

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Which loss mathematically finishes our season?
We know it's over in reality, but I'm curious as to when the club can accept it and play the kids officially, send players in for early surgery, etc.
I read somewhere this morning that Richmond would need to win five of the remaining six games to guarantee finals.
 

Noidnadroj

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So every coach of every team ranked 2-18 each year should go.

Gotcha.

And yeah I’m sure in years to come looking back at the recent era, the analysis for why we didn’t win a flag between 2012-2020 will be our use of Rhys Stanley and Mark Blicavs, the two biggest names in the sport
Not playing your best tall defender Blicavs on Lynch… who was the match winner in a prelim… is pretty hard to justify, not just in hindsight.

And leaving Dangerfield up forward for so long in the third quarter of both the 2019 PF and 2020 GF when Richmond were dominating the run of play from the midfield were strange ‘non moves’ also.

This is not to say Scott is not an excellent coach or that the results would have been different. But if given his time again in all 3 instances, Blicavs would have played on Lynch and he wouldn’t have left Danger up forward for so long as the game slipped away.

If he claims he wouldn’t have done things differently he’s clearly too pig headed for his own good. Or unable to recognise his own coaching errors.


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geelong_crazy26

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This is my last reply to you on the basis that it’s never good to argue with a fool.

Google “Caracella behind Richmond’s game plan”.

a lot of the articles are pay walled so I won’t post the links.

they all make the point I’m making. This stuff is widely reported on.

I’ll just give you one opening line, to give a sense of the flavour of these articles:

“The ‘tactical genius’ credited as the architect of Richmond’s drought-breaking premiership game plan Blake Caracella…” (Herald-Sun 7 Oct 2017)

there’s also an abundance of articles about the effects of the Richmond assistants who went to Essendon.

I’m not going to do any other searches but Kingsley was reported in the papers as the architect behind the changes in the clearance set up after the Brisbane finals loss and the success in stoppage play in the following weeks.

try and read a bit more, so that you have some knowledge about the topics you are arguing about, rather than just ranting and making completely generic, non-specific points
There is only one article and it’s the one you posted. you just literally quoted an article which says “ one of the architects”… now do you think being a midfield coach of a premiership team that just maybe your going to be “ one of the architects” involved??

I also found an article saying Justin leppisch was a huge part of the game plan change particularly the mozzi fleet…

news flash mate, all assistants are involved in game plan development.
 

DeepBlue

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How’s the Richmond try hard losers or sore losers who call sen with excuses thinking there opinion is important and relevant. You have to have a Collingwood obsession or be really really jealously dumb to think bagging Collingwood because they have no draft picks (they can trade picks in for points) when they have the best kid in the country for free in daicos who will be better value than all Richmonds picks combined together. Just because they lost to Collingwood they call sen to bag them which make them look really stupid instead of blaming there own club. #LastYearTheyHadDeepestList #Now richmondhaveinjuries listen at the 46:50 minute mark https://player.whooshkaa.com/shows/sen-afternoons
 

Pistol Night

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How’s the Richmond try hard losers or sore losers who call sen with excuses thinking there opinion is important and relevant. You have to have a Collingwood obsession or be really really jealously dumb to think bagging Collingwood because they have no draft picks (they can trade picks in for points) when they have the best kid in the country for free in daicos who will be better value than all Richmonds picks combined together. Just because they lost to Collingwood they call sen to bag them which make them look really stupid instead of blaming there own club. #LastYearTheyHadDeepestList #Now richmondhaveinjuries listen at the 46:50 minute mark https://player.whooshkaa.com/shows/sen-afternoons
Aand breathe
 

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