Analysis Is Rocky the Right Man for the Job?

[Kevvo]

Fair. Maybe at the start of 2016 it would have been fair to say he bleeds Brisbane and there's been a bit of a breakdown. But it is on the way to being fixed I hope.

I know what you mean, and I used to feel the same. Increasingly I wonder whether it's just that he has a combative personality and likes to prove people wrong.

We'll see, but I think it's likely that he'll be somewhere else in 2018 after a year of rehabilitating his reputation.

 

[Fatcat08]

Fair enough mate. That's better information than has been provided in a while. I remember someone asking during trade period what Rocky did wrong and the response was to provide a link to a 100 page thread about Rocky - full of derailments and all sorts of things. Getting a straight answer was impossible.

Just on this, I don't think its unreasonable when a conversation has evolved over time and been quite tedious, that this would be the response to someone coming in and not bothering to read anything and asking others to summarise them. Others have had to sit through the crapshoot that was that thread, I don't see why others should just get a nice little summary for them to breeze over it. Its not that hard for people to read themselves. Its up there with people asking how an injured player is going without even bothering to check the players roster watch thread. If you're simply too bloody lazy to look before you ask, then you deserve something akin to that sort of response.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I've not really taken part in this conversation recently, because it's not exactly been a fruitful one in the past for those of us trying to find out what's going on. You seem to have contacts around the place, which is great. But for most of us, we only have forums and club releases for information. And to let you know what's going on in the minds of us not in the know (and as someone who's been reasonably interested in the Rocky situation), all I've heard is:
- He put a moderately inappropriate comment on twitter when joking with his mates. Not a smart move, but it was a pretty huge media beat up given that all he said was "I'd rank her a 3/10". That's hardly a Lewinski-size sex scandal.
- He talked to his manager, who fired off at the club for not backing him up enough in the media.
- He was pretty clearly frustrated at several times during the year. He was frustrated when he couldn't get on the park due to injuries, he was frustrated with losses, and it appeared to me that he took issue with a bit of the coaching/gameplan side of things... Him and the club fronted up to each other a couple of times, but I don't know whether that was issues with Leppa, or Swanny, or Lambose, or what any of it entailed.
- He was obviously on the table for trade bait and nothing eventuated. This indicates that there's probably something behind the scenes that made him unattractive to other clubs, but we also don't know whether any lowball offers were made and shot down. The club may have been willing to part ways at X compensation, but didn't get it.
- Fagan has now told us that he had a word with Rocky early on and told him what rumours were swirling around the clublands. So there were whispers making their way around.

Beyond that, we've had media making vague comments with no particulars, and we've had forum comments with vague comments and no particulars. In fact, about all I've got off the forum RE the Rocky situation is "Trust me, he's a bad influence", "Trust me, he's not going to be at the club next year" and "Trust me, he's not going to be captain".

I don't know about everyone else, but in my mind, the information above isn't enough to convict. It certainly says that something's going on, but in a year where we sucked, and then fired the coach, I also don't know what was Leppa's fault and what was Rocky's. He may or may not be a bad influence, he may or may not be a good leader, and he may or may not be on his way out the door. I've got no idea, because no one has actually provided information.

I hope that explains why some posters would be hoping he gets reappointed captain. Not to witness a meltdown "over the needs of the team" (because if he gets appointed captain, that would be the club's opinion of what's best for the team), but because it can also be frustrating having a few people on here saying "there's a lot going on behind the scenes, but I'm just going to make vague statements... But you should trust me - he's not going to be captain".

That was certainly a long winded attempt to put a positive sheen on what was a lame post.

It's been explained many, many times why people (not just me) weren't able to provide the level of detail you demand. That said, there was meaningful detail for those who read between the lines but people just wanted more and more and started to get way too pushy about it. Shame you didn't see that Rockliff post that another poster put on the rumours board a couple of months ago. That guy nailed quite a fair bit of it.

At the end of the day, no one is demanding that you believe anything. If there isn't enough evidence for you to change your view, the sensible thing is not to. But in a current discussion about who will be leader, my firm position is that he won't be. I'm not sure why I am required to substantiate my view 500% more than anyone else. All this suggestion of "wink wink trust me" posturing is being fabricated/exaggerated by others. Though I'm sure this post will be misconstrued in the same way.

I really am surprised how quickly some people seem to have conveniently disregarded the almost unprecedented public occurences of the off-season.

Do you just want me to say he will be captain? Will that make you happy? Because apparently no evidence is required for that position.

 

[M Malice]

 

[spotthedog1]

Quite possibly me, as I have done so a few times, but make no apology for.
When there is 100 page thread on the subject and people continually ask "So, what's up with Tom", the answers (and arguments are going to get very repetitive. Many have gone over and over it, as well as the reasons why no further detail is available. Reading 100 pages of old thread would be tedious, but so would a weekly debate on the same subject every time someone asks the question.

That is true, and is also frustrating when those who don't know, choose to ignore or dismiss comments by some other posters (particularly when it is well established that said posters do have some inside knowledge). People to choose to believe who and what they want and others can or choose to provide how much detail or evidence is passed on.
The reader can only make up their own mind based on the details provided and the poster providing those details or comments, no different to any other walk of life. We all make assessments on the reliability or value of others' comments & opinions.

Back to that 100 page thread, there are more comments and opinions than those you've listed, but the conversation has already been had and I reckon we wait and see who is in the leadership group so we can make a new thread guessing if Tom stays, goes and which club gets him for how much.

That's fair. I read about 10 pages of the thread though (at the beginning and end of the thread), before giving up after reading no new information, but plenty of weird tangents, and plenty of subtle, vague posts eluding to unspoken events. If it's been rehashed a bunch of times, please feel free to link a specific post with specific information in it. Looking for a needle in a haystack that dated back to the beginning of the 2015 season wasn't particularly enlightening.

I get what you mean - we don't get info served up to us, and that's just the way it is. Fair enough - the posters here don't exist to serve me. But likewise, it's also not fair to repeatedly have posters saying "I know something, but I'm not really going to tell you". If you know something, either say it, or don't say it. Don't half say it and drop hints. We've had a month of "trust me, he won't be at the club next year" then 3 months of "he won't be captain", so I wasn't surprised that some of the irritation from those not-in-the-know turned to "I hope you're wrong, just so we can watch the meltdown". It didn't seem to me to be attacking the club - it seemed to be attacking the vague "trust me"s.

I'm not worried either way. If Rocky's captain, he's captain. If he's not, he's not. There's so much politics in our club at the moment that it's likely that everyone is only working from part of the story anyway... I was just trying to explain how the situation has been reading to someone without inside knowledge.

 

[Nunez]

I'm sure most of us are sick of the Rocky talk. I certainly am. He was my favourite player. Now I'm of the opinion he should be gone from the club. Ignorance may be bliss, but denial of something obviously being wrong with Rocky is just sad.

Realistically, that's all past us now. It's 2017 pre season. Rocky is fit and is primed to have a good season. We as fans should focus on his on field form and hope off field he is a better fit for us.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I'm sure most of us are sick of the Rocky talk. I certainly am. He was my favourite player. Now I'm of the opinion he should be gone from the club. Ignorance may be bliss, but denial of something obviously being wrong with Rocky is just sad.

Realistically, that's all past us now. It's 2017 pre season. Rocky is fit and is primed to have a good season. We as fans should focus on his on field form and hope off field he is a better fit for us.

Yeah, nailed it. I'm good to move on.

Only time can answer any lingering questions from here.

 

[Tairy Greene]

So you're telling me Rocky's training the house down?

 

[spotthedog1]

Just on this, I don't think its unreasonable when a conversation has evolved over time and been quite tedious, that this would be the response to someone coming in and not bothering to read anything and asking others to summarise them. Others have had to sit through the crapshoot that was that thread, I don't see why others should just get a nice little summary for them to breeze over it. Its not that hard for people to read themselves. Its up there with people asking how an injured player is going without even bothering to check the players roster watch thread. If you're simply too bloody lazy to look before you ask, then you deserve something akin to that sort of response.

Fair enough. I don't see the need for silver service either, and we all know how annoying it is getting the same question every page during trade week. I wasn't referring to needing everything served up on a platter. I was just trying to explain how things have looked over time to someone who has been keeping a bit of an eye on it and still has no particular info. As you say, it's perfectly valid that if you don't put in the reading, you don't get the info though. But I'm not surprised that people aren't reading 100+ pages of "Is Rocky the right man for the job?" though. If you want to narrow it down to a 10-page range, you'll probably see more people shut up. It's a big thread, and there's no immediately obvious search term that people should've considered looking up.

That was certainly a long winded attempt to put a positive sheen on what was a lame post.

It's been explained many times why people (not just me) weren't able to provide the level of detail you demand. That said, there was meaningful detail for those who read between the lines but people just wanted more and more and started to get way too pushy about it. Shame you didn't see that Rockliff post that another poster put on the rumours board a couple of months ago. That guy nailed quite a fair bit of it.

At the end of the day, in a current discussion about who will be leader, my firm position is that he won't be. I'm not sure why I am required to substantiate my view 500% more than anyone else. All this suggestion of "wink wink trust me" posturing is being fabricated/exaggerated by others.

Do you just want me to say he will be captain? Will that make you happy?

Umm. OK? I wasn't trying to pick on you particularly - yours was just a post that summed up what I've seen a lot of. I'm not sure if you are calling my post lame or the post I was... well, not defending, but not condemning... Either way, you've confused me.

You've generally seemed to have reasonably reliable info. You'll note, reading back, that I made no demands for more info, and I never suggested that I wanted Rocky captain. I don't know the guy. I like his football, so I hope we don't give him away, but otherwise, whatever. And as I've said, i'm fine with people not sharing info - if you have to protect sources, that's understandable. I was just getting sick of the back and forth of:
"Trust me, he won't be captain" "Why? I don't see any reason why not" "Trust me, he won't be captain" "Why? I don't see any reason why not" [repeat 500x].
Both sides being plenty repetitive and not adding to the conversation - both sides equally at fault in my eyes. But from a few posts over the last few pages, it's seemed to me that those in the know have been getting a bit bewildered at the idea that people don't know what's going on, so I was trying to explain how people don't know what's been going on - because the vague unspecific murmurings that we're hearing now is what we've been hearing since mid-season.

And no, I didn't see some general post in the rumours thread several months ago. I don't read the rumours thread. I thought all I needed to do was read the currently-103 page Rocky captaincy thread?

I propose a stalemate. People stop asking what Rocky did to deserve to be stripped on captaincy, and other people stop insinuating that they know something that means Rocky shouldn't be captain.

 

[Kevvo]

Fair enough. I don't see the need for silver service either, and we all know how annoying it is getting the same question every page during trade week. I wasn't referring to needing everything served up on a platter. I was just trying to explain how things have looked over time to someone who has been keeping a bit of an eye on it and still has no particular info. As you say, it's perfectly valid that if you don't put in the reading, you don't get the info though. But I'm not surprised that people aren't reading 100+ pages of "Is Rocky the right man for the job?" though. If you want to narrow it down to a 10-page range, you'll probably see more people shut up. It's a big thread, and there's no immediately obvious search term that people should've considered looking up.

Umm. OK? I wasn't trying to pick on you particularly - yours was just a post that summed up what I've seen a lot of. I'm not sure if you are calling my post lame or the post I was... well, not defending, but not condemning... Either way, you've confused me.

You've generally seemed to have reasonably reliable info. You'll note, reading back, that I made no demands for more info, and I never suggested that I wanted Rocky captain. I don't know the guy. I like his football, so I hope we don't give him away, but otherwise, whatever. And as I've said, i'm fine with people not sharing info - if you have to protect sources, that's understandable. I was just getting sick of the back and forth of:
"Trust me, he won't be captain" "Why? I don't see any reason why not" "Trust me, he won't be captain" "Why? I don't see any reason why not" [repeat 500x].
Both sides being plenty repetitive and not adding to the conversation - both sides equally at fault in my eyes. But from a few posts over the last few pages, it's seemed to me that those in the know have been getting a bit bewildered at the idea that people don't know what's going on, so I was trying to explain how people don't know what's been going on - because the vague unspecific murmurings that we're hearing now is what we've been hearing since mid-season.

And no, I didn't see some general post in the rumours thread several months ago. I don't read the rumours thread. I thought all I needed to do was read the currently-103 page Rocky captaincy thread?

I propose a stalemate. People stop asking what Rocky did to deserve to be stripped on captaincy, and other people stop insinuating that they know something that means Rocky shouldn't be captain.

I don't want to pile in here (read: I'm going to), but I'm not sure about this.

In the hypothetical situation (which you may or may not believe) where people did know something significant that they weren't comfortable sharing, is your view that they should argue as though it isn't based on first hand knowledge?

This whole issue has been agitated because some posters have started to suggest that there is a real chance of him remaining captain. Other posters who tend to have legit info are of the strong belief he won't be. What response do you recommend from them?

 

[Dalions]

Rocky is fit and is primed to have a good season. We as fans should focus on his on field form and hope off field he is a better fit for us.

But not as captain.

 

[spotthedog1]

I don't want to pile in here (read: I'm going to), but I'm not sure about this.

In the hypothetical situation (which you may or may not believe) where people did know something significant that they weren't comfortable sharing, is your view that they should argue as though it isn't based on first hand knowledge?

This whole issue has been agitated because some posters have started to suggest that there is a real chance of him remaining captain. Other posters who tend to have legit info are of the strong belief he won't be. What response do you recommend from them?

Fair point. I would say that they were fine to both state their knowledge, and not state their sources, the first few times. But conversation continued, and people have continued to jump in with "he won't be, but I can't say why". They can't be surprised when people then ask why?

Likewise though, when posters have provided info, and stated that they can't share how they know it, it's then up to people to either accept or reject it. Asking once or twice for any more info - OK. After a while, they can't be surprised when the original posters get irritated.

It's not just this thread, it's happened across many threads, it's many posters, and I'm not claiming to be innocent here either. The number of times I've seen "Trust me" (yes TBD - it has happened a lot), or "if you're still denying it, when it's so obvious"... That irritates me far more than being out of the know.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yeah I find things irritating here too. Life in a society I guess.

 

[spotthedog1]

 

[Nunez]

But not as captain.

Certainly not. He's got 0% chance of being captain.

 

[Leemas]

I don't want to pile in here (read: I'm going to), but I'm not sure about this.

In the hypothetical situation (which you may or may not believe) where people did know something significant that they weren't comfortable sharing, is your view that they should argue as though it isn't based on first hand knowledge?

This whole issue has been agitated because some posters have started to suggest that there is a real chance of him remaining captain. Other posters who tend to have legit info are of the strong belief he won't be. What response do you recommend from them?

You mean the same posters who were adamant he wouldn't even be at the club this year?

Why on earth wouldn't people be skeptical. Seeing as it's the most exciting topic in the off-season of course it's kept going to be brought up.

 

[Kevvo]

You mean the same posters who were adamant he wouldn't even be at the club this year?

Why on earth wouldn't people be skeptical. Seeing as it's the most exciting topic in the off-season of course it's kept going to be brought up.

You're a funny one. Unsurprisingly, you missed the point entirely.

If you knew something first hand and people were speculating facts to the contrary, of course you would be pretty flat in pointing out that you disagree. It's a pretty simple observation.

There's also an irony in you of all posters making the case to be skeptical of others' credibility.

 

[irel]

You're a funny one. Unsurprisingly, you missed the point entirely.

If you knew something first hand and people were speculating facts to the contrary, of course you would be pretty flat in pointing out that you disagree. It's a pretty simple observation.

There's also an irony in you of all posters making the case to be skeptical of others' credibility.

 

[Skoob]

You mean the same posters who were adamant he wouldn't even be at the club this year?

Why on earth wouldn't people be skeptical. Seeing as it's the most exciting topic in the off-season of course it's kept going to be brought up.

No one, and I mean not one poster on this board (unless it was Dylan, because he's a loose cannon) was "adamant" that Tom wouldn't be here this year.*

*That I recall.

 

[Skoob]

<SNIP> please feel free to link a specific post with specific information in it. Looking for a needle in a haystack that dated back to the beginning of the 2015 season wasn't particularly enlightening.
<SNIP> so I wasn't surprised that some of the irritation from those not-in-the-know turned to "I hope you're wrong, just so we can watch the meltdown". It didn't seem to me to be attacking the club - it seemed to be attacking the vague "trust me"s.

I'm not worried either way. If Rocky's captain, he's captain. If he's not, he's not. There's so much politics in our club at the moment that it's likely that everyone is only working from part of the story anyway... I was just trying to explain how the situation has been reading to someone without inside knowledge.

I'm not seeking evidence here, so I don't feel obliged to find the links for you. That would be the same as my point of rehashing the explanations and opinions for you.

Also, most of the so called "not in the know"* types as you put it and Rocky hopefuls were actually active throughout the 100 page thread.
*I don't consider myself to be "in the know". I don't know anyone especially well at the club. I just think I have a good read on who here is reliable and a rudimentary ability to read between the lines.
So it isn't a 'knowledge' based position, but more a 'head in the sand', 'refuse to accept' type that is struggling.

 

[Leemas]

You're a funny one. Unsurprisingly, you missed the point entirely.

If you knew something first hand and people were speculating facts to the contrary, of course you would be pretty flat in pointing out that you disagree. It's a pretty simple observation.

There's also an irony in you of all posters making the case to be skeptical of others' credibility.

I think everyone should be skeptical of everything said on this board unless they can completely back up what they say.

I really don't want to rehash events of a few years ago but if his own team mates were told the wrong thing can we really trust anyone with anything??

 

[Sherrinator]

Can some sort of mod delete the last 2 pages or send it to a captaincy type thread??

 

[Kevvo]

I think everyone should be skeptical of everything said on this board unless they can completely back up what they say.

I really don't want to rehash events of a few years ago but if his own team mates were told the wrong thing can we really trust anyone with anything??

FWIW I don't doubt your version of events. I think it's perfectly plausible things changed.

I also think there are parallels in the point you make about Rockliff not leaving.

You're right about the need for skepticism, and we each have to make our own call about when someone has 'backed up' their credibility.

 

[LionKing]

No one, and I mean not one poster on this board (unless it was Dylan, because he's a loose cannon) was "adamant" that Tom wouldn't be here this year.*

*That I recall.

 

[Billy Puller]

View attachment 328587

These last few pages, things are heating up!