Is the Iranian regime under threat?

[MaddAdam]

Your excellent post above has perfectly adumbrated the Oded Yinon plan, as it has been executed to the letter these past 16 years.....And as we both know....Iraq & Lebanon represent the final 2 stages in that plan....With a full take-over & annexation of Palestine also in the works.

The North-Eastern Kurdish region of Syria, on the Turkish border, is now effectively a U.S enclave....With all the top oil men already there, on site, & licking their greedy chops at the spoils....Mass-murder, greed, The destruction of States & the flooding of Europe with Muslim refugees....And all of it for oil & the greater Israeli.

How people still remain blind as to whom the principle protagonists are that lie behind all of this destruction, is truly something that exists beyond my comprehension.....Only those utterly hoodwinked by our Western MSM could not possibly see it.

The Israeli strategy of breaking the Arab states into warring ethno/religious statelets is actually on the record published stuff.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The Israeli strategy of breaking the Arab states into warring ethno/religious statelets is actually on the record published stuff.

As you rightly adduced....The exact same strategy that was enacted in the Balkans.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I hope that the mullahs and their theocracy are kicked to the gutter, I really do. BUT at the same time I hope that what replaces them isn't some subservient Washington stooge. I hope the Iranian people keep close to their hearts the fact that the United States will throw them back under a bus when it becomes expedient to do so.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I hope that the mullahs and their theocracy are kicked to the gutter, I really do. BUT at the same time I hope that what replaces them isn't some subservient Washington stooge. I hope the Iranian people keep close to their hearts the fact that the United States will throw them back under a bus when it becomes expedient to do so.

What the world could actually gain by most, is a 'regime' change in both Israel & the U.S currently....Preferably yesterday.

 

[awaremind]

What the world could actually gain by most, is a 'regime' change in both Israel & the U.S currently....Preferably yesterday.

The regime is more than just the White House and state department, its diplomats, oligarchs, intelligence agencies, the media etc. the tables need to be turned in a massive way to actually enact serious change in foreign policy.

 

[Total Power]

ShanDog - this stuff isn't conspiracy, it is geo-politics.

When Procrastinator goes on about how 9/11 never happened etc, that's conspiracy.

This stuff isn't.

The greater Israeli project is not about a Jewish empire or territorial expansion, the stuff p35 talks about is conspiracy. I explained above, its about regional hegemony. In the supposed territory of “Greater Israel”, the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, about 100 million people live. If Israel really has a plan to colonize that enormous stretch of land, it not only has to ethnically cleanse it but also to repopulate it with Jews. there are at most 14 million Jews in the world and not all would like to settle in that “Greater Israel”. Then there is the small problem of defending that territory, not only against the people who were expelled from it and want to return, but also against the whole Arab world, the whole Islamic world. Ttere are no indications that Israel really has such an insane plan. If it did, it would never have given up the Sinai and Gaza and would have annexed the West Bank and have expelled all Palestinians already long ago. This idea of a secret Israeli “Greater Israel” plan is a paranoid conspiracy theory of people with little sense of realism. It cannot be done and Israel is not trying to do it.

on the other hand there is the Oded Yinon plan to fragmentize all Israel’s neighbors to secure its regional hegemony. I don’t deny the Oded Yinon plan, but that should not be called the “Greater Israel” plan. Call it the “Regional Hegemony” plan or whatever.

This is as bad as p35 saying 9/11 was an inside job and that plane was actually a missile.

 

[Kurve]

That the US and Israel have a long standing plan to take out the Arab/Muslims regimes of North Africa and the Middle East - the MO being to break them as unitary sovereign states and reduce them to perpetually warring religious and ethnic substates - isn't a conspiracy theory. It is what they have done and are doing, all with the ultimate endgame of neuteraing Iran as a threat.

Look at Iraq - now broken into effectively three parts (Kurdish area, the Shia areas around Baghdad and the south and ungovernable utterly warblasted Sunni and mixed zone in Anbar and the north) Look at Syria - broken into many pieces (Kurish areas, Assad controlling an Alawaite "rump Syria", ungovernable and warblased Sunni areas). Look at Libya - divided into three along various lines stemming from where the militias where when Gaddafi fell.

Remember when the war on Iraq had gone well? The US neocons were openly saying "The road to Tehran runs through Damascus" and they were pushing for the US forces to keep going into Syria with the aim of getting to Iran and "taking out" all three of them. Events - and stubborn Iraqi resistance - prevented that, but it is still the aim.

Procrastinator35 does have some conspiracy theories of which I do not agree, but this is not one of them, it is the realpolik of the region.

ShanDog - this stuff isn't conspiracy, it is geo-politics.

When Procrastinator goes on about how 9/11 never happened etc, that's conspiracy.

This stuff isn't.

I know .. thank you for explaining the finer details so well. I'm going to try denial for a little while longer though, the thought of another war that Syria is just coming out of is too much for me right now.

 

[Total Power]

I know .. thank you for explaining the finer details so well. I'm going to try denial for a little while longer though, the thought of another war that Syria is just coming out of is too much for me right now.

The regional hegemony is no conspiracy but the Greater Israeli project and god's promised land crap is. All this stuff about Jewish empire is pure nonsense that most neo nazis spew all the time on their websites. Refer to Ken O'Keefe, Yinon's plan did not mention anything about occupation or building an empire.

 

[awaremind]

The regional hegemony is no conspiracy but the Greater Israeli project and god's promised land crap is. All this stuff about Jewish empire is pure nonsense that most neo nazis spew all the time on their websites. Refer to Ken O'Keefe, Yinon's plan did not mention anything about occupation or building an empire.

Is keeping the neighbours in disarray (which involves helping head chopping lunatics), really that much better than enlarging thier stable nation state? The chaos we've seen in the past decade would say probably not for the innocent civilians of the land. Not to mention the exodus into Europe it has caused and will continue to cause.

 

[Total Power]

Is keeping the neighbours in disarray (which involves helping head chopping lunatics), really that much better than enlarging thier stable nation state? The chaos we've seen in the past decade would say probably not for the innocent civilians of the land. Not to mention the exodus into Europe it has caused and will continue to cause.

No it's not but if you look at what Saudi is doing right now it's not much better. Or how Arabs are treated in Persia, or how Kurds and minority population is treated in the middle east. The seeds of hatred is there already, they are just exploiting it. They all hate each other period. For all the support Palestine receives from the Arab states, none of them give them recognition as refugees, most are being evicted from Arab lands and forced to go to Europe. No different from how Syrians were treated in Arab countries, except Lebanon and Jordan, none of them could give a *. The arabs are no better.

 

[Kurve]

The regime is more than just the White House and state department, its diplomats, oligarchs, intelligence agencies, the media etc. the tables need to be turned in a massive way to actually enact serious change in foreign policy.

And big, very big business on own agenda. They're not people we can easily identify because they're not in government.

 

[Total Power]

And big, very big business on own agenda. They're not people we can easily identify because they're not in government.

Ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing, does race, religion or creed matter? for example the exodus of Jews post 1947 and then the formation of the state of Israel equals to assuming all Jews support Zionism. Although many Jews played prominent roles in Egyptian nationalism they were evicted from their homes, purely because Israel was formed. Once home to 60,000 strong Jewish population, now only 20 Jews remain in Egypt. that is not ethnic cleansing, only ethnic cleansing is that of Palestinians. Similar stories in Iraq, Lebanon everywhere!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Egypt

 

[Procrastinator35]

The regime is more than just the White House and state department, its diplomats, oligarchs, intelligence agencies, the media etc. the tables need to be turned in a massive way to actually enact serious change in foreign policy.

Yes but, they're only bad-guys if you refer to them by the moniker of 'Regime'!

 

[MaddAdam]

As you rightly adduced....The exact same strategy that was enacted in the Balkans.

Which is why it is now knows as "Balkanisation".

Really though, it is just an acient and highly successful military/strategic idea being wheeled out again - divide et impera.

Divide and rule.

Worked for the Romans, the Brits used it in India to stunning success.

 

[MaddAdam]

The greater Israeli project is not about a Jewish empire or territorial expansion, the stuff p35 talks about is conspiracy. I explained above, its about regional hegemony.

Agreed re regional hegemony in terms of the Isreali "state". But for the religious right and the settler movement, who now wield huge political power, it IS about territorial power and an ethno-religiously "pure' jewish empire.

In the supposed territory of “Greater Israel”, the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, about 100 million people live. If Israel really has a plan to colonize that enormous stretch of land, it not only has to ethnically cleanse it but also to repopulate it with Jews. there are at most 14 million Jews in the world and not all would like to settle in that “Greater Israel”.

Again, the state doesn't want to cleanse and colonise it, but the right does, and they have political ascendancy.

Then there is the small problem of defending that territory, not only against the people who were expelled from it and want to return, but also against the whole Arab world, the whole Islamic world.

Israel has had no problems taking on the whole Islamic world at once before. They have nukes, in a second strike capacity, which gives them the ultimate leverage. This is why they are so terrified of Iran getting nukes. They know that Iran could do the calculus of a nuclear exchange and win. As in, you only need one or at most two nukes to utterly wipeout Israel. Erased from the map. Two or three nukes would kill millions of Iranians, but Iran would survive.

Ttere are no indications that Israel really has such an insane plan.

Colonisingfrom the Euphrates to the sea? No, not now it doesn't.

If it did, it would never have given up the Sinai and Gaza

They didn't give up Gaza, they just made a tactical withdrawal. They still have total control of it.

This idea of a secret Israeli “Greater Israel” plan is a paranoid conspiracy theory of people with little sense of realism.

I have a very strong sense of realism in international affairs, and Greater Israel is an idea that exists, in the minds of powerful players in the Israeli body politic. It isn't formal government policy. But things can and do change.

on the other hand there is the Oded Yinon plan to fragmentize all Israel’s neighbors to secure its regional hegemony. I don’t deny the Oded Yinon plan, but that should not be called the “Greater Israel” plan. Call it the “Regional Hegemony” plan or whatever.

Agreed they are two very different beasts.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Number37]

As you rightly adduced....The exact same strategy that was enacted in the Balkans.

Is it really about divide and conquer or is there something much more sinister at play?

China takes over the South China Sea, Russia takes over Ukraine, the US takes over...

 

[MaddAdam]

I know .. thank you for explaining the finer details so well. I'm going to try denial for a little while longer though, the thought of another war that Syria is just coming out of is too much for me right now.

The Syrian fight would be a walk in the park compared to Iran.

The Iranians have been preparing for this for ages.

They used Iraq to test tactics and weapons - literally a "real life live fire simulator" - on the Americans, ahead of having to fight the Americans at home. Most notably they perfeced the Explosive Formed Penetrator improvised explosive device roadside bomb. They killed probably hundreds of US troops with them, but never shared the tech and certainly not with the Sunni insurgents who made up the majority of the resistance. It was the Quds Force using Iraq as a live fire exercise. So if and when US ground forces come into Iran, they will have these things waiting for them, which the Iranians have perfected.

They've also used Syria to recruit and train and battle harden hundreds of thousands of Iraqi/Afghani/Pakistani militiamen. These guys have fought all the way from Baghdad to Mosul in Iraq and won the battle of Aleppo in Syria.

If and when a ground war against Iran begins, the Iranians can call on this massive reserve.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Is it really about divide and conquer or is there something much more sinister at play?

China takes over the South China Sea, Russia takes over Ukraine, the US takes over...

As Maddadam said, Geo-politics.

The Caspian Sea Basin has the biggest natural gas deposits in the world.....It is also a critical juncture for running pipelines directly from it & into the Persian Gulf....With Iraq/Syria on one side & Afghanistan on the other....3 States the Yanks have already decimated.....With the biggest oil wells in both Syria & Iraq now under Western control & the Afghan poppy Crop & gas deposits also similarly requisitioned.

By destroying Iran the U.S will have full control of the Persian Gulf & it's Ports for the transportation of oil & gas, directly from the Caspian Sea, Iraq, Syria & Afghanistan.

Take another gander at a world atlas & find where all of Yemen, Somalia & Sudan are....They are all states crucial to the control of the Red Sea & oil & gas transportation through it & the Suez canal....All 3 states also have huge oil deposits off-shore that the Yanks covet....The real & actual reason for why these destitute States are also being decimated.

It's all about $$$, & has SFA to do with 'Democracy' or any other abstract social construct the Western MSM cares to use as a means to legitimize the U.S foreign policy of mass-murder & DE-population.

The U.S is just a massive Robber-Baron, Imperialist State, that still operates on the precepts of piracy.....Rape, pillage, murder & steal the booty.

There are no secrets here....All the complexity is manufactured spin utilized as a mass media delusion technique designed to mask & camouflage the real & actual intentions....Which are motivated by pure greed & are fundamentally evil at their core....Hence the need to demonize these States & use their leaders & Islam as a scapegoat for the justification of their destruction.

Iran isn't threatening anyone.

 

[Mofra]

The Syrian fight would be a walk in the park compared to Iran.

The Iranians have been preparing for this for ages.

They used Iraq to test tactics and weapons - literally a "real life live fire simulator" - on the Americans, ahead of having to fight the Americans at home. Most notably they perfeced the Explosive Formed Penetrator improvised explosive device roadside bomb. They killed probably hundreds of US troops with them, but never shared the tech and certainly not with the Sunni insurgents who made up the majority of the resistance. It was the Quds Force using Iraq as a live fire exercise. So if and when US ground forces come into Iran, they will have these things waiting for them, which the Iranians have perfected.

They've also used Syria to recruit and train and battle harden hundreds of thousands of Iraqi/Afghani/Pakistani militiamen. These guys have fought all the way from Baghdad to Mosul in Iraq and won the battle of Aleppo in Syria.

If and when a ground war against Iran begins, the Iranians can call on this massive reserve.

All true - but couldn't then the Yemeni conflict also be considered a training exercise for Sunni / Saudi forces?
No doubt they would be nowhere near as strong as the Iranians but considering the stagnation in the Iran/Iraq war and sanctions there are still challenges the Iranians would have to deal with in any US conflict, although access to Russian technology would certainly not be a problem.

 

[MaddAdam]

The seeds of hatred is there already, they are just exploiting it. They all hate each other period. .

Not true. Just simply not true. Lies. In places like Syria and Iraq, various ethnicities and religions lived side by side for centuries.

The seeds of hatred were not "just there" and Israel and the US exploiting them.

The seeds were there in terms of religious and ethnic DIFFERENCE. But the US and Israel watered and fed and nurtured the groups/ideas that sought to increase that DIFFERENCE into HATRED and violence.

This is why they supported the jihadists and Islamists.

They support the extremists for two reasons. One - to make all the "Arabs" and "MUslims" seem like crazy headchoppers, which "justifies" acting brutally toward them

Also, it makes creating civil war and discord easier, and thus control - if Sunni jihadists are murdering Shia families in ice creak parlours, then the Shia will be focusing on protecting their community and getting revenge rather than organizing to fight the occupier.

Don't fall for the line that they are all just lazy bloodthirsty Arabs, that is their nature blah blah. Its bullshit.

 

[MaddAdam]

All true - but couldn't then the Yemeni conflict also be considered a training exercise for Sunni / Saudi forces?
No doubt they would be nowhere near as strong as the Iranians but considering the stagnation in the Iran/Iraq war and sanctions there are still challenges the Iranians would have to deal with in any US conflict, although access to Russian technology would certainly not be a problem.

It could ... if the Saudis were doing any fighting. They've outsourced pretty much everything. They should be using it to gain experience in combined air/ground warfare, but it is the Brits, Yanks and Aussies doing that.

It is in fact a dirty little secret just how many Australians are involved in the day to day running of the war, especially for the UAE. The UAE armed forces are commanded and run by Australian mercs.

 

[Number37]

As Maddadam said, Geo-politics.

The Caspian Sea Basin has the biggest natural gas deposits in the world.....It is also a critical juncture for running pipelines directly from it & into the Persian Gulf....With Iraq/Syria on one side & Afghanistan on the other....3 States the Yanks have already decimated.....With the biggest oil wells in both Syria & Iraq now under Western control & the Afghan poppy Crop & gas deposits also similarly requisitioned.

By destroying Iran the U.S will have full control of the Persian Gulf & it's Ports for the transportation of oil & gas, directly from the Caspian Sea, Iraq, Syria & Afghanistan.

Take another gander at a world atlas & find where all of Yemen, Somalia & Sudan are....They are all states crucial to the control of the Red Sea & oil & gas transportation through it & the Suez canal....All 3 states also have huge oil deposits off-shore that the Yanks covet....The real & actual reason for why these destitute States are also being decimated.

It's all about $$$, & has SFA to do with 'Democracy' or any other abstract social construct the Western MSM cares to use as a means to legitimize the U.S foreign policy of mass-murder & DE-population.

The U.S is just a massive Robber-Baron, Imperialist State, that still operates on the precepts of piracy.....Rape, pillage, murder & steal the booty.

There are no secrets here....All the complexity is manufactured spin utilized as a mass media delusion technique designed to mask & camouflage the real & actual intentions....Which are motivated by pure greed & are fundamentally evil at their core....Hence the need to demonize these States & use their leaders & Islam as a scapegoat for the justification of their destruction.

Iran isn't threatening anyone.

That was my point.
The whole muslims are bad/terrorists thing is a convenient distraction.

Geopolitics is where it's at.
The Russians and Chinese have staked their claim, the US had to act to shore up its strategic military positions.
It is no coincidence that states that straddle the Russian/US Chinese/US divide are the ones undergoing civil unrest.

It is also no coincidence that the hot zone holds most of the world's oil reserves.

Does anyone believe that Mugabe would have survived as long as he did if Zimbabwe was somewhere in the hot zone?

Trump ramping up the heat on Pakistan is just another example.

The US could waltz into Iran & any other country tomorrow and blow the place to smithereens.
The only 2 countries the US can't waltz into are China and Russia.

 

[Mofra]

The only 2 countries the US can't waltz into are China and Russia.

Vietnam

 

[Number37]

Vietnam

Lesson learned.
Like the Russians in Afghanistan.

And the lesson of the Germans and every other dominant power at any time in the world's history.
i.e. that there is a limit to how far you can stretch your military capabilities.

 

[Total Power]

I have a very strong sense of realism in international affairs, and Greater Israel is an idea that exists, in the minds of powerful players in the Israeli body politic. It isn't formal government policy. But things can and do change.



Agreed they are two very different beasts.

But the idea of the Greater Israel is not what the CT'ists claim it is though, i tend to agree with you on this issue.

The point i made above is that P35's conspiracy about forming a Jewish empire by taking over these countries, he is just parroting Ken O'Keefe who preaches such things.. So how do you see the Greater Israel plan then?

The point i made about A Jewish Empire with a majority Arab subject population is impossible because nowadays populations dont accept such subjugation anymore. The British could rule over 300 million Indians only as long as they accepted their subjugation. When that ended – by violent or non-violent means – the British Raj ended. Same in all other European colonies.

the Israelis already have experience on a small scale with this scenario in Gaza. a minority of 7000 Jews lived there among 1,5 million hostile Palestinians. They needed heavy military protection for their security. Travel was only possible in armed convoys. This situation was unsustainable and even “hawk” Sharon decided to end it. A Jewish Empire with a majority Arab subject population would be a “Greater Gaza” and even less sustainable than “Little Gaza”. And then people talk about "greater Israel" its all *, most don't understand what it means.

the Jews are already in a dilemma in the occupied West Bank. they would like to annex it, but dont know what to do with the Palestinian population. Ethnic cleansing is politically unacceptable, but honestly.... granting them citizenship would make the Palestinians the majority in Israel. Under democracy they could then easily outvote the Jews in all matters. The only solution would be to deny them voting rights and keep them under a form of “Apartheid”, but that too is politically unacceptable. how well would a Jewish Empire fare with a subject population of 100 million arabs either under democracy or apartheid? under democracy the Arabs would vote their Jewish masters out, under apartheid they would rebel. Ask the white Rhodesians and the white Afrikaanders what the outcome of such a scenario would be.