Is the MCG a big advantage on Grand Final Day for Victorians against Interstate Sides? /Are Interstaters advantaged during the home and away season?

Is the MCG a significant advantage for Victorian sides against Interstate Teams on Grand Final Day?

  • Yes, It's a big advantage for the Vic Big Boys

    Votes: 190 67.1%
  • No. If you're good enough you'll win no matter who you play where you play

    Votes: 93 32.9%

  • Total voters
    283

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bh90210fan

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Yeah but you're ignoring that if a Vic team finishes top 2 we can easily play a home prelim against another team on their home deck (also our home deck). Do you think Richmond (finishing top of the ladder) were advantaged playing Collingwood at the MCG in a prelim in 2018, compared to if WC were in our shoes playing Collingwood at Optus?

I think you're right about top 2 being the key for non-Vics. Interstate teams have the advantage in first 3 weeks of finals over Vics if they finish top 2, since they can't have the scenario that Richmond had in 2018 (unless 2 Perth/Adelaide/Sydney teams finish top 4). Vics can have an advantage over instates in the first 3 weeks of finals if they finish 3-4 though (for example, Collingwood, finishing 3rd, benefited from playing Richmond at our shared home ground, whereas an interstate team finishing 3-4 obviously can't get that advantage).
You were advantaged by only having to navigate neutral games all the way to a premiership. Top 2 for us still means winning on the other side of the country. Ill concede that a non Victorian side is likelier to make a gf if they finish top 2, but a mcg tenant is more likely to win one. And top 2 is a pretty big mountain to climb, we don’t get gifted advantages in finals, it’s top 2 or bust for non Vics
 

bh90210fan

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but you were just talking about finals in your previous post not the Grand Final?

You do realize home Vic Clubs have to share seating allocations right? A Richmond v Collingwood/Essendon/Hawthorn/Carlton/Melbourne final isn't just Richmond supporters because it's our "Home" game yeah? Or are you just talking about the times when Richmond / Collingwood etc play Geelong in which 30 odd thousand cats fans still attend?
I did mention traveling to Melbourne in my earlier post, obviously referring to the grand final. You’ve gone on a tangent with crowds here, I realise a final between 2 mcg tenants are nuetral games, not sure what you’re on about
 

Coach_Required

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I did mention traveling to Melbourne in my earlier post, obviously referring to the grand final. You’ve gone on a tangent with crowds here, I realise a final between 2 mcg tenants are nuetral games, not sure what you’re on about
It's not just MCG tenants though, Dogs, Saints fans all can attend MCG finals matches. That's my point a Non Vic team home final advantages that side far more than a home Vic final against other Vic teams which you are blatantly disregarding as a non issue.
 

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bh90210fan

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It's not just MCG tenants though, Dogs, Saints fans all can attend MCG finals matches. That's my point a Non Vic team home final advantages that side far more than a home Vic final against other Vic teams which you are blatantly disregarding as a non issue.
Already said it’s easier for us to make a grand final if we finish top 2, again wtf are you on about??
But noones in the business of just making grand finals, mcg tenants are more likely to win them
 

Tiger2709

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1) have you seen our record against port at ao? Are you scared of brisbane at the gabba?


2) as well as the long way home

3) this rule has been in place for a long time - heres a more perplexing rule, in a normal season richmond can place ninth - never beat a team away from the mcg , get to a grand final via 8th being demoted for breaching a rule and have a home gf vs an interstate team that won every single game home and away throughout the whole season.
3) It may also be that some Vic clubs get no home games all season, whereas the Eagles get too play most of their home games at home,gaining a huge advantage, which through an inability to travel well, they still cant take at advantage of, yet still "earn" a home final while clubs finishing above them haver to play away yet again.

Simple fact has always been if you're good enough you win it anywhere, this year we played the Eagles at a neutral ground, so no excuses for either team and we found that at the time Richmond was simply the better team.
 
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bh90210fan

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The amount of flags won in the modern era by Vic vs non Vic sides.
Have you been watching football for the last twenty years? The only non Victorian club to get hold of a Melbourne team in a grand final was the great Brisbane side 2001-2003.
 

Tiger2709

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Have you been watching football for the last twenty years? The only non Victorian club to get hold of a Melbourne team in a grand final was the great Brisbane side 2001-2003.
Grand Finals @ ther G' Vics v interstate = 8, Interstate v Vics = 9 in the last 30+ years since the AFL was formed.
 

Rich01

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Have you been watching football for the last twenty years? The only non Victorian club to get hold of a Melbourne team in a grand final was the great Brisbane side 2001-2003.
In the AFL era, the flags have been distributed proportionately to the % of Vic/non Vic clubs. While the GF location may be an advantage for Vic teams that actually get there, the pure home ground advantage non Vic teams have had during the season make it so much easier for them to get there.

So to answer the OP, yes to both questions.
 

greatwhiteshark

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I think we're talking about 2 different things.

Yes, all those sports/leagues choose to reward the highest seed by giving them a particular advantage in a GF/Finals series (playing at home including one-sided crowded support).

The AFL doesn't do that - it seeks to neutralise the crowd advantage on GF day by having the same ticketing arrangements for both teams, and it also prioritises maximising attendance, rather than rewarding finishing top of the table.

You could make an argument that the AFL should reward the highest finishing team with a home ground GF with a one-sided crowd, I suppose. I think there are good reasons not to do that though. There is evidence that umpires are affected by one-sided crowds and pay more free kicks (penalties/fouls in other sports), which creates a HGA that is actively unfair. So I think there's good reason for the AFL GF to have an evenly split crowd. If that is the case, then it doesn't matter too much where it is played. If they had big enough stadiums around Australia, I wouldn't have a problem with rotating the venue. If the crowd was split evenly, I certainly wouldn't have a whinge about it being unfair if my team played in a GF in WA or SA, as if staying in a hotel or flying for a few hours a week beforehand would somehow cripple my team and rob it of a fair chance to win.
The crowd is never split evenly when it comes to Vic club V Non Vic club in a GF. By distributing the same amount of tickets to both clubs does not mean same amount of fans at actual game.
In 2018 both Collingwood and West Coast were allocated the same amount of tickets per club. But because the game was in Melbourne another 20-30K Collingwood fans somehow managed to get tickets to the game and hence the crowd was about a 65-35 split. I have no problem as such with that as I want as many members and supporters be able to go as possible but maybe because of this and it would occur each and everytime purely because of geography they could try something different.
18k for Vi team members distributed by the AFL and for the non vic team they get 28k. Or if the AFl want to keep the same numbers then Vic team gets 12k and not Vic team gets 24k.
Knowing full well the Vic team members and supporters will find a way to get in anyway.
 

bh90210fan

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In the AFL era, the flags have been distributed proportionately to the % of Vic/non Vic clubs. While the GF location may be an advantage for Vic teams that actually get there, the pure home ground advantage non Vic teams have had during the season make it so much easier for them to get there.

So to answer the OP, yes to both questions.
Again, it’s only easier for us to get there if we finish top 2. Which is a tall order. We can’t get a ride finishing any lower unlike some teams
 

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RichLeMonde

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The crowd is never split evenly when it comes to Vic club V Non Vic club in a GF. By distributing the same amount of tickets to both clubs does not mean same amount of fans at actual game.
In 2018 both Collingwood and West Coast were allocated the same amount of tickets per club. But because the game was in Melbourne another 20-30K Collingwood fans somehow managed to get tickets to the game and hence the crowd was about a 65-35 split. I have no problem as such with that as I want as many members and supporters be able to go as possible but maybe because of this and it would occur each and everytime purely because of geography they could try something different.
18k for Vi team members distributed by the AFL and for the non vic team they get 28k. Or if the AFl want to keep the same numbers then Vic team gets 12k and not Vic team gets 24k.
Knowing full well the Vic team members and supporters will find a way to get in anyway.
So long as it is evidence-based - ie based on counting actual numbers rather than impressions - I’d have no problem with the AFL manipulating ticketing to get it as close to 50-50 as possible (unless a team has few fans, like GWS), although not just based on the assumption that Vic fans would just find a way. It would have to be properly regulated.
 

kranky al

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It's an advantage for a Vic team to play the Grand Final at the G, you cant deny it. However its much harder for the Vic teams to get themselves into a position to grab that advantage. You really need to be a dominate side to take full advantage of that.

Non Vic teams have a much greater home ground advantage during the season, if they are good enough they will win the majority of their home matches 11 or 12 games, they only need to win 1 or 2 more to make finals. If they can pinch a few away wins along the way they set themselves up for top 4.

Top 4 is where its at, you make top 4 in a normal season and you are almost there, same for Vic teams I think what you find at the moment in recent seasons a lot of the Vic teams are really poor so the good Vic teams are getting an advantage. E.G, Carlton, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Essendon have really struggled at stages.

I believe when teams fail to capitalize on their winning periods its an easy cop out to just blame fixtures, last year for example West Coast had top 4 in the bag but somehow lost a home game to Hawthorn which pushed them to 5th. That loss really stuffed their hopes of going back to back. In 2018 they finished top 4 got those 2 home finals and it made it easier to make the Grand Final which helped them win the flag, they were a good enough side to then beat Collingwood at the G and thoroughly deserved it.

No Grand Final is easy to win, teams still have to be very good to win a flag and sometimes you need a bit of luck especially with injuries.
we only have that advantage for 10 games of 22

we have just as great a disadvantage for 10 of those games plus a travel schedule thats punishing.

to see how punishing it is all you have to do is look at what victorian fans say after their team does a road trip to perth.

heres an example of a couple of pages after hawthorn had travelled to perth. ive quoted it in this manner so it doesn't tag the posters involved

[QUOTE ="Jukesy85, post: 57057397, member: 174912"]Getting an extra two days break and Hawthorn having to fly back from Perth while we haven’t left Etihad since the 14th will be a huge advantage (I don’t even know why this was allowed in the fixturing in the first place).

But knowing us and having the advantage, we’ll probably screw it up and lose after such a promising few months. Absolutely have to win this to make finals so they better be fired up, don’t deserve to play finals if we can’t beat the Hawks[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE ="Guardian Hawk, post: 57057729, member: 8642"]Not sure it is that even. It looks to be the case on the ladder but Essendon now are not the same rabble from the start of the year.
A ladder of the last 10 weeks would actually have Essendon sitting on top of the ladder. Meanwhile, Hawthorn have only been beating the bottom teams lately (and even then losing to the likes of Brisbane at home).

Add to that your pace (Hawthorn's biggest kryptonite), 2 fewer days break and Hawthorn returning from Perth, Essendon deserve to be warm favourites.

Really hope we can win though as your mob is the only team I genuinely can't stand. I doubt there'll be any actual fights as no one will risk getting suspended at this time of the year.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE ="MowShow, post: 57065321, member: 131541"]Trying to be optimistic but honestly can't see us getting within 5 goals of the bombers here..

I think our average form in recent times has been largely masked by our draw - i.e. recent big wins have people thinking we are playing at a higher level than we actually are, but they have been against freo, carlton, gold coast, the dogs etc. To be fair (from memory) the lions are the only team that has really got a hold of us this season. But my point is its pretty hard to get a read on our form.

On the other hand, the bombers have been really impressive lately. Aside from a couple of games without Fantasia they have looked hot. Sicily and Howe are 2 important players for us and coming off a 6 day break back from Perth, I can see them opening us up with their speed (which is an issue for us at the best of times).

Also can't see us being able to kick a winning score against the Bomber's defense, particularly with their style of play which will likely lead to them scoring in the ball park of 100.

Bombers by 38.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE ="StillAtLarge, post: 57076992, member: 162586"]The only reason Essendon are favourites is because they'll have 2 days extra prep and didn't play in Perth last round. I dare say we would be slight favourites otherwise.
And no, I'm not getting my excuses in early. We don't appear to be carrying any crocked players and seemed to coast through the last quarter v freo with this game in mind so if we're good enough- we'll win.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE ="Godzke, post: 57078655, member: 79677"]Players saw the difference after half time against Sydney when you lower the eyes when entering 50. Important we continue to look for the shorter lead up targets rather than kicking to a pack and hoping a small crumbs it. Particularly important against a team that ranks highly for i50s but lowly for clearances.

Extra two break and not flying back from Perth should mean we run out this game better than Hawthorn. Relatively dry conditions predicted, which also bodes in our favour.[/QUOTE]



thats one trip - we do that trip every second week.
 

RichLeMonde

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Again, it’s only easier for us to get there if we finish top 2. Which is a tall order. We can’t get a ride finishing any lower unlike some teams
Again, it can work both ways. Just like you’re advantaged, relative to Vics, by finishing top 2 but not 3-4, you can also be advantaged by finishing 5-6, which guarantees you a true home final in the first week, whereas Vics finishing 5-6 don’t have that guarantee, if they play another Vic. You guys are worse off in the second week of finals if you finished 5-6 and then are guaranteed to travel in the second week, but you’re actually better off in the second week of finals than Vics if you finished 3-4 and lost in the first week, again as you have a guaranteed true home final in week 2, which Vics finishing 3 or 4 and losing don’t have, if they cop another vic team in the second week of the finals. You guys need to stop ignoring all the scenarios that work out better for you and worse for Vics.
 

kranky al

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3) It may also be that some Vic clubs get no home games all season, whereas the Eagles get too play most of their home games at home,gaining a huge advantage, which through an inability to travel well, they still cant take at advantage of, yet still "earn" a home final while clubs finishing above them haver to play away yet again

Simple fact has always been if you're good enough you win it anywhere, this year we played the Eagles at a neutral ground, so no excuses for either team and we found that at the time Richmond was simply the better team.
its a weird season - brisbane have been the ones kissed on the dick - but this is one season out of 30+ years - an aberration.

richmond did beat us away from our and your home - i have no qualms with that. if richmond go on to win the flag at a neutral (gabba) venue they have excelled for the year and that gf i would rate a lot higher than ‘17 and ‘19 where you played them at home.
 

kranky al

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Again, it can work both ways. Just like you’re advantaged, relative to Vics, by finishing top 2 but not 3-4, you can also be advantaged by finishing 5-6, which guarantees you a true home final in the first week, whereas Vics finishing 5-6 don’t have that guarantee, if they play another Vic. You guys are worse off in the second week of finals if you finished 5-6 and then are guaranteed to travel in the second week, but you’re actually better off in the second week of finals than Vics if you finished 3-4 and lost in the first week, again as you have a guaranteed true home final in week 2, which Vics finishing 3 or 4 and losing don’t have, if they cop another vic team in the second week of the finals. You guys need to stop ignoring all the scenarios that work out better for you and worse for Vics.
lol you have entire finals series where you dont leave victoria despite playing opponents higher on the ladder than you

if we finish 3,4,6,7 we are flying in week one - thats a 50% chance less the small chance of playing our derby team

if we are bottom four of the top 8 we are flying either week one or week two guaranteed. we are also guaranteed to fly on gf day

if you look at every single finals series since the afl started i can guarantee you interstate teams have flown way more times than victorian teams

you are complaining that you have to stay home and play teams without advantage - we have to fly and face teams at their home way more often than you.
 
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TiggerMan22

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You were advantaged by only having to navigate neutral games all the way to a premiership. Top 2 for us still means winning on the other side of the country. Ill concede that a non Victorian side is likelier to make a gf if they finish top 2, but a mcg tenant is more likely to win one. And top 2 is a pretty big mountain to climb, we don’t get gifted advantages in finals, it’s top 2 or bust for non Vics
In 2018 we were DISADVANTAGED by only having neutral games on the way to a grand final.
For interstate teams thats a near guaranteed 2 home ground advantages.
 

bh90210fan

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Again, it can work both ways. Just like you’re advantaged, relative to Vics, by finishing top 2 but not 3-4, you can also be advantaged by finishing 5-6, which guarantees you a true home final in the first week, whereas Vics finishing 5-6 don’t have that guarantee, if they play another Vic. You guys are worse off in the second week of finals if you finished 5-6 and then are guaranteed to travel in the second week, but you’re actually better off in the second week of finals than Vics if you finished 3-4 and lost in the first week, again as you have a guaranteed true home final in week 2, which Vics finishing 3 or 4 and losing don’t have, if they cop another vic team in the second week of the finals. You guys need to stop ignoring all the scenarios that work out better for you and worse for Vics.
If we finish any lower than 2nd, we have to win a minimum 2 finals on the road for a flag. Most likely 3 if we lose an away qualifying final. A much more daunting prospect than anything a Victorian side is likely to face.
 

TiggerMan22

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lol you have entire finals series where you dont leave victoria despite playing opponents higher on the ladder than you

if we finish 3,4,6,7 we are flying in week one - thats a 50% chance less the small chance of playing our derby team

if we are bottom four of the top 8 we are flying either week one or week two guaranteed. we are also guaranteed to fly on gf day

if you look at every single finals series since the afl started i can guarantee you interstate teams have flown 3-4 times as much as victorian teams

you are complaining that you have to stay home and play teams without advantage - we have to fly and face teams at their home way more often than you.
And we also have an entire finals series were we get no home ground advantage despite being higher on the ladder than our opponents.

Facts are this.
2017 - We get 2 home ground advantages when we wouldn't have. Advantaged.
2018 - We got 2 neutral games when we should've got home ground advantages. Disadvantaged.
2019 - All 3 finals we played had the higher team on their home ground. No change.

2017 this may have won us the flag, in 2018 it may have lost us the flag. The point is it isn't all good like some people make it out to be.
 

TiggerMan22

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If we finish any lower than 2nd, we have to win a minimum 2 finals on the road for a flag. Most likely 3 if we lose an away qualifying final. A much more daunting prospect than anything a Victorian side is likely to face.
Not 100% true. You could play say Freo week 1 and beat them to book a home prelim. But yes its most likely to be 2 non home finals.

And if a Vic team finished top 2 they may have 0 home ground advantages all the way through the finals even when winning every game. A disadvantage no non-vic team will ever face.

We don't have it worse, but there is a genuine negative to this too.
 

bh90210fan

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In 2018 we were DISADVANTAGED by only having neutral games on the way to a grand final.
For interstate teams thats a near guaranteed 2 home ground advantages.
Playing on your home ground isn’t a disadvantage though, us playing a game in Melbourne against a lower seeded opponent on their home ground is what you’d call a disadvantage
 

greatwhiteshark

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So long as it is evidence-based - ie based on counting actual numbers rather than impressions - I’d have no problem with the AFL manipulating ticketing to get it as close to 50-50 as possible (unless a team has few fans, like GWS), although not just based on the assumption that Vic fans would just find a way. It would have to be properly regulated.
Unfortunately I did not get around to all supporters that day in 2018, MCC I couldn’t get in to do the survey and as hard as I tried to talk to the other 70k some kept walking by me without answering who do you support.
Mate you don’t need to do a survey, I was there and all you need is eyes and ears. Collingwood had a vast majority of support. It’s not rocket science.
 

kranky al

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Again, it can work both ways. Just like you’re advantaged, relative to Vics, by finishing top 2 but not 3-4, you can also be advantaged by finishing 5-6, which guarantees you a true home final in the first week, whereas Vics finishing 5-6 don’t have that guarantee, if they play another Vic. You guys are worse off in the second week of finals if you finished 5-6 and then are guaranteed to travel in the second week, but you’re actually better off in the second week of finals than Vics if you finished 3-4 and lost in the first week, again as you have a guaranteed true home final in week 2, which Vics finishing 3 or 4 and losing don’t have, if they cop another vic team in the second week of the finals. You guys need to stop ignoring all the scenarios that work out better for you and worse for Vics.
thought id collate results of the last ten years of finals.

year - vic team flies - interstate team flies

2019 3 4
2018 2 3
2017 2 6
2016 4 4
2015 2 4
2014 2 4
2013 1 6
2012 2 6
2011 1 4
2010 2 2
2009 2 2
_________

total 23 45


keep whining about having to play neutral games in victoria - an interstate team is almost twice as likely to have to fly to another state and play at a disadvantage than a victorian team in a final.
 

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