Is the MCG a big advantage on Grand Final Day for Victorians against Interstate Sides? /Are Interstaters advantaged during the home and away season?

[doppleganger]

Once they say we need to cross a time zone to be effected enough times, then they will figure another angle why South Australians aren't effected.

You know, it's only West Aussies that have it hard.

Or the WA nuffies may actually click and realise that it isn’t the Vic/Melbourne teams who they should be raging against....but the NSW/QLD/SA teams who enjoy all the benefits of a distinct home ground advantage, but none of the travel impost experiences only by the WA teams.

 

[kranky al]

The largest advantage for finals should be going to minor premier

Presently if you are a Victorian minor premier you more often than not get shafted compared to a non-vic minor premier...surprise surprise you eagle fans don’t acknowledge the easier path to a GF...you just claim you ‘earn’ a home GF!

So yes, they need to correct some of the imbalances in earlier finals before worrying about the GF if that is to be awarded on ‘merit’.

Re the GF itself.

The majority of factors that create the ‘advantage’ part of the ‘home ground advantage’ don’t hold true for a GF.

Routine - both teams struggle to keep any normal routine, brownlow, 20k at training, GF parade, more media. Whether a team has a flight on Thursday or not doesn’t change the fact that BOTH teams face changes to normal routine.

Crowd - the ‘home’ team doesn’t enjoy 90+% crowd support that is a characteristic of a ‘home ground advantage’ game.

Ground familiarity - playing a game in front of 30k in May doesn’t prepare a player for a GF. Teams train on MCG size ovals to improve familiarity now too!

Psychology - defending your own turf, elevated testosterone at home again all that goes out the window in a GF as that isn’t the motivational driver, it flips being whether players can grasp opportunity or have a fear of failure

Travel - well isn’t the argument that it is the cumulative load that is the problem? Impacting on preparation and recovery. If you are a top2 non-vic team you have spent a month+ at home. The recovery or preparation disadvantage as per a regular H&A game again doesn’t hold.

All of those contributors to the advantage part of the ‘home ground advantage’ are distorted for a GF.

The stats show that the advantage itself is not aligned to regular season win rates.

It is actually the Melbourne teams who are being shafted...which again makes sense when you consider that the AFL enforced Melbourne ground rationalisation policy removed home ground advantage from those teams....Essendon and Carlton have been sh*t for about two decades, neither actually even has a preferred home anymore, the Dees and North were forced off the G, Etihad teams were shafted by $$, Hawks moved 1/3 of their games to Tassie, and these teams don’t get ‘home finals’ for the majority.

The only team that supposedly benefited from ground rationalisation was Collingwood, the Pies now play 14 games at the G (more than any club), but the Pies are 0-4 in GFs against non Melbourne teams....

short on time

i can only address one of your points

the corona virus has removed crowds from the equation in sports all over the world. the hga advantage win loss ratio has changed by less than 3%.

 

[Final Siren]

short on time

i can only address one of your points

the corona virus has removed crowds from the equation in sports all over the world. the hga advantage win loss ratio has changed by less than 3%.

This is flat-out untrue. You are quoting a study that (from memory) found the win rate of home teams changed from about 56% to 53% without crowds.

That is a difference of three percentage POINTS, not three percent, i.e. about half of home advantage immediately disappeared without crowds.

 

[Gibbke]

WTF are you talking about

There's plenty to suggest they would have fared better at home. Pull your head out of your ....

GFs between a Vic side and a non-Vic side are literally home games for the Vic side and you're pretending that this doesn't present an advantage...

I don't have to pretend s***! The numbers and history tell it all. Once the interstate side gets to the GF, they've already jumped through every damned hoop and proven that it isn't that big a deal. To get there, they need to conquer travel - go through every GF interstate side and look at their away record...if you made it that far, you have no excuses...

All three of those sides I mentioned played their inexplicably worst, most shithouse match of the season on those three occasions. The stories of those matches are now fabled. If a side turns up and delivers that, it's got nothing to do with hotels and transfers and everything to do with mindset and game preparation, and on all three occasions they failed. What, you're telling me that if the 2014 game was in Sydney the Hawks would have gone easy on Dan Hannebery, the 2015 game in Perth wouldn't have seen the Hawks of that era not achieve something they'd clearly set their minds to do (and were elite enough to do it) after a week 1 humiliation, and in 2017 if Tex Walker got to stare down Richmond pre-game in front of his mum at home he would have kicked 9 goals...? I'd even venture to suggest that the quality of the teams who did play in the GF's after 2015 did descend to a level where home advantage made a bigger impact, but a) who would have knocked off the Dogs in 2016? WC and GWS at home couldn't, and neither could the top 4 threepeat Hawks, b) GWS over Richmond...yeah right, we applauded when we saw Eddie's tears post match, but it the most disappointing PF upset since Carlton robbed us of a good GF in 1999, and c) WC in 2018 says hello. The early 2010's saw four dynasties all slugging it out for supremacy (G,S,H and Collingwood), whereas the last four years has been all Richmond...you only have to compare the other winningest team in Geelong with its 2011 version to see how far they, and footy itself, has fallen. Once you get there, the extraneous factors might very well kick in, and that sheer elite professionalism that allowed the great WC sides to shrug off jet lag and win no matter how beaten up their passports looked was missing...maybe...?

You can only assess each game on its merits. Do you even watch the sport? To make a stupid blanket statement like "f###ing vic home advantage" and then ignore both the numbers which have been thrown in the faces of people like you repeatedly, and the actual events during and behind the matches, is just dumb ignorance. I'm Tasmanian, no Vic bias here, I can kick a Vic while grinning as hard as you can, but there's just nothing to see here...

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Firstly-- check the date. The AFL did it first.

Secondly--- the AFL made a long-term financial decision by agreeing to that deal. How else was the AFL going to obtain $250M to upgrade a stadium they own? A stadium that is currently the collateral of the loan from NAB keeping the competition going in 2020.

A 25 year extension for $500mil to only upgrade Victorian facilities. That’s fair enough when the money is coming from the Vic government, but if it was open for other states to bid on the figure would be far greater and infrastructure and facilities spending would upgraded nation wide more regularly.

The biggest kicker is that the Vic government spent $20mil a year to upgrade this, that’s if you only count from 2032 when it was due to expire. But from 2018 it is less than it’s around ~$12mil. The Victorian government itself has stated that a grand final with a team from Outside Victoria brings in over $125mil to the Victorian economy. For $12million dollars that’s a ridiculous bargain. Why did the custodians of the league sell the game for so cheap? They didn’t even test the waters to see what they could get from other states. Other than being disappointed by the decision to keep it in Victoria, it’s also bitterly disappointing they aren’t getting its true value.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

But hey your head still thinks it’s a suburban comp

 

[Senor M]

View attachment 970881

A 25 year extension for $500mil to only upgrade Victorian facilities. That’s fair enough when the money is coming from the Vic government, but if it was open for other states to bid on the figure would be far greater and infrastructure and facilities spending would upgraded nation wide more regularly.

The biggest kicker is that the Vic government spent $20mil a year to upgrade this, that’s if you only count from 2032 when it was due to expire. But from 2018 it is less than it’s around ~$12mil. The Victorian government itself has stated that a grand final with a team from Outside Victoria brings in over $125mil to the Victorian economy. For $12million dollars that’s a ridiculous bargain. Why did the custodians of the league sell the game for so cheap? They didn’t even test the waters to see what they could get from other states. Other than being disappointed by the decision to keep it in Victoria, it’s also bitterly disappointing they aren’t getting its true value.

Why are you averaging the value of the Grand Finals down to include years that were already included in the deal (2018-2032)? You're trying to manipulate the figures to provide a false reality that reflects your #VICBIAS agenda. It's $20mil a year for 25 Grannd Finals from 2033-2057 (now 2058 following the renegotiations this year). The AFL believed that they needed the money in 2018 when the agreement was made so that they could upgrade Marvel Stadium--- which I'll state again is the financial asset that's keeping the AFL alive at the moment.

Without that agreement the AFL wouldn't be receiving the income for the 2033-2057 Grand Finals for another 13+ years because there's no way the WA or SA (or any other state government) is handing out $20 million in 2020 for an event 13 years into the future.

Personally I'd prefer the AFL to get the money they need to continue to grow and succeed NOW rather than the hypothetical situation of making more more in 15 years from now.

 

[Crowster01]

Advantageous or not i'm still massive supporter of the grand final being played at the MCG and people that aren't are generally never happy no matter what, considering its the VFL/AFL nothing wrong with a keeping tradition. No interstate teams are not advantaged nor are the VIC's really

 

[Spanish_Fly]

I have used the word disorientated incorrectly. If you think travel does not affect performance then you are in denial.

If you think the main issue is the travel itself, you must be very happy with this year as WCE get the least amount of travel of any team this season.

 

[VicBased]

If you think the main issue is the travel itself, you must be very happy with this year as WCE get the least amount of travel of any team this season.

I will get back to you once i do the figures.

 

[Duskfire]

Advantageous or not i'm still massive supporter of the grand final being played at the MCG and people that aren't are generally never happy no matter what, considering its the VFL/AFL nothing wrong with a keeping tradition. No interstate teams are not advantaged nor are the VIC's really

A lot of traditions have been tossed out the window by the AFL. There is no reason why this one needs to continue. At the MCG 100k people go to the game, but 3 million watch it. The atmosphere will be great regardless.

 

[Crowster01]

A lot of traditions have been tossed out the window by the AFL. There is no reason why this one needs to continue. At the MCG 100k people go to the game, but 3 million watch it. The atmosphere will be great regardless.

True, but i still believe winning a grand final on the biggest ground in AUS is something special. the amount of history and footy on that oval just creates such a grand atmosphere. coming from a parochial South Australian

 

[VicBased]

If you think the main issue is the travel itself, you must be very happy with this year as WCE get the least amount of travel of any team this season.

Crunched the Richmond numbers and compared, Richmond travelled 26 hours and WC travelled 21 hours. Five hours more, thats it. Now should i go ahead and do Brisbane, Gold coast, Port and Adelaide, Giants who all travelled less than us?

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Crunched the Richmond numbers and compared, Richmond travelled 26 hours and WC travelled 21 hours. Five hours more, that's it. Now should i go ahead and do Brisbane, Gold coast, Port and Adelaide, Giants who all travelled less than us?

You only travelled twice from Perth to Brisbane, at the most 18 hours of travel. I just checked Port who you claim had less travel and they had 8 different flights to and from QLD, that's at least 36 hours flight time, I'd guess if I did the sums for the others you erroneously posted it would be similar. This doesn't even take into account that every flight adds about another 3 hours onto flight time, just getting to and from airport and waiting times, buses etc, so 2 x travel is a lot less than 8 x travel from that perspective too.

Its Ok you can just own that you've had the softest draw this year, 2 x travel for the whole season and playing 6 games in a row at home is the softest draw of any team in at least the last 20 years.

 

[VicBased]

The flight time from Brisbane, Queensland to Perth, Western Australia is:
4 hours, 59 minutes

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You only travelled twice from Perth to Brisbane, at the most 18 hours of travel. I just checked Port who you claim had less travel and they had 8 different flights to and from QLD, that's at least 36 hours flight time, I'd guess if I did the sums for the others you erroneously posted it would be similar. This doesn't even take into account that every flight adds about another 3 hours onto flight time, just getting to and from airport and waiting times, buses etc, so 2 x travel is a lot less than 8 x travel from that perspective too.

Its Ok you can just own that you've had the softest draw this year, 2 x travel for the whole season and playing 6 games in a row at home is the softest draw of any team in at least the last 20 years.

I will leave this here for you.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

The flight time from Brisbane, Queensland to Perth, Western Australia is:
4 hours, 59 minutes

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Depart:​
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I will leave this here for you.

Cool, you still have had the least amount of travel, I see you just ignored my other point and focused on the irrelevant minutiae

 

[Ok Boomer]

Yep minor premier Tigers played the Pies, the 3rd placed H&A team, at the Pies home ground in a PF.

Meanwhile Eagles enjoyed a PF against the 5th places H&A team with a full home ground advantage!

Eagles given a leg-up again.

Well if Collingwood didn't botch another last quarter it wouldn't have played out that way. Richmond punished for Collingwood failings.

 

[VicBased]

Cool, you still have had the least amount of travel, I see you just ignored my other point and focused on the irrelevant minutiae

View attachment 972962

Have you checked Brisbanes travel? I have and it is a lot less than WC. As Molly says....Do yourself a favour before you look silly.

 

[SloppyJoe]

Yep minor premier Tigers played the Pies, the 3rd placed H&A team, at the Pies home ground in a PF.

Meanwhile Eagles enjoyed a PF against the 5th places H&A team with a full home ground advantage!

Eagles given a leg-up again.

Losing home ground advantage can happen to any team that shares its home ground with another team.

Losing home State advantage can happen to any team that shares its home State with another team.

It just happens more often to Vic sides than those in WA/SA/NSW/Qld because Vic has 10 teams sharing 3 grounds in an 18 team comp.

It's not a complete negative - Vic teams travel less as a consequence and fixture quirks can see 5+ consecutive games at home (some with advantage, some without).

It's Vic's choice to continue to have so many teams, so they can't complain about it.

But it doesn't justify arbitrarily deciding to hold the GF at the MCG for 40 years.

 

[Niggles]

Crunched the Richmond numbers and compared, Richmond travelled 26 hours and WC travelled 21 hours. Five hours more, thats it. Now should i go ahead and do Brisbane, Gold coast, Port and Adelaide, Giants who all travelled less than us?

Oh you poor lil' thing. So hard done by being a WC supporter. You've just been kicked from pillar to post this year with such harsh disadvantages. I want to know your secret. How on Earth can you guys get such a rough ride and still remain as humble and thoughtful as you do. You never complain.

 

[VicBased]

Oh you poor lil' thing. So hard done by being a WC supporter. You've just been kicked from pillar to post this year with such harsh disadvantages. I want to know your secret. How on Earth can you guys get such a rough ride and still remain as humble and thoughtful as you do. You never complain.

About time you started noticing how well controlled we are Niggles.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Have you checked Brisbanes travel? I have and it is a lot less than WC. As Molly says....Do yourself a favour before you look silly.

Well I checked Ports travel that you said was less and they have travelled more than double, maybe check your facts before sprouting rubbish and looking silly. WCE travelled ONLY twice for the season, this is undeniable and a lot less than any other team, and definitely less than Brisbane.

 

[Rich01]

At the absolute minimum, the state hosting should be able to accomodate the away team in hotel rooms, rather than camper vans.

 

[VicBased]

At the absolute minimum, the state hosting should be able to accomodate the away team in hotel rooms, rather than camper vans.

Oh i dunno....they are making some pretty fancy campervans in 2020.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

At the absolute minimum, the state hosting should be able to accomodate the away team in hotel rooms, rather than camper vans.

Totally agree but the Pies would have known this before arriving, the AFL would of also known one would think. Maybe they brought to many people here? You are aware there are people stuck in hotel rooms doing quarantine that can’t get out of the room for two weeks. In a perfect world you are right but we are not in a normal environment I am sure they will get through without their lives scarred.