Is the MCG a big advantage on Grand Final Day for Victorians against Interstate Sides? /Are Interstaters advantaged during the home and away season?

Is the MCG a significant advantage for Victorian sides against Interstate Teams on Grand Final Day?

  • Yes, It's a big advantage for the Vic Big Boys

    Votes: 234 68.2%
  • No. If you're good enough you'll win no matter who you play where you play

    Votes: 109 31.8%

  • Total voters
    343

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LoungeLizard

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
9,100
7,192
gippsland
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Collingwood
All non-Vic teams are shafted by the AFL, especially West Coast, Vics have all the advantages and they are massive.

Seriously, if i supported a non-Vic team i would pull the pin and put my money into state leagues, people must have rocks in their heads to abandon their clubs for this Victorian league.
 

Final Siren

Mr Squiggle
Aug 18, 2009
4,052
16,760
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They examined results for 6,481 professional soccer games in 17 countries before and after COVID-19 restrictions were put in place, and made a surprising finding.

The home-field advantage was still there — to a slightly smaller degree — even without boisterous crowds of fans to cheer them on and heckle their opponents, said economics professor James Reade.

found the share of matches ending in a home win fell from 43.8 per cent before the shutdown to 41.2 per cent after.
Thanks, that's a good one.

I think your post-shutdown number above includes matches played with some crowd, e.g. in Australia outside of Victoria. The crowd vs no-crowd numbers are in Table 2, and the win rate difference there is bigger: three percentage points, which is about the same as what I've seen elsewhere.

They do however go on to try to control for a few other variables, especially "team and referee heterogeneity" (not totally sure what that means), at which point they couldn't find a statistically significant difference due to crowds any more.

More strong links between crowd and umpiring bias, as seen elsewhere.
 

bh90210fan

Premiership Player
Sep 4, 2017
3,449
3,974
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West Coast
Here you go, just use your 2018 list but adjust ratings more appro

Breakdown

+10 home game at your ground against a team from a different state

+8 home game at alternate venue in same city against a team from a different state

+5 a home game with ground and crowd familiarity significance, but either both teams travel or neither do have- Tassie, Cats v Melbourne based teams, Lions v Suns at GaBbA

+2 a home game in Melbourne with ground familiarity advantage against fellow Vic team ie Pies v North at the G, Saints v Cats at Etihad

+1 nominal home game against city rival who plays in that stadium, or nce off game where two teams travel to a random stadium, ie China, NZ experiment, NT games, Cairns clashes etc.

Using those ratings Freo, Port, Geelong get huge advantage. Hawks similar time Eagles...poor old MCG tenants are shafted

2018

Hawthorn = +6
Luck out with double up against Cats at the G.

+10 GAMES (x2)
R8: Sydney @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R13: Adelaide @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+8 GAMES (x1)
R10: West Coast @ Docklands (VIC)

+5 GAMES (x4)

R6: St Kilda @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)
R11: Port Adelaide @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)
R14: Gold Coast @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)
R17: Brisbane Lions @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)

+2 GAMES (X2)

R2: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R21: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+1 GAMES (x3)
R1: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R4: Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R20: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-1 GAMES (x3)
R3: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R7: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R18: Carlton @ Docklands (VIC)

-2 GAMES (x3)
R22: St Kilda @ Docklands (VIC)
R16: Western Bulldogs @ Docklands (VIC)
R5: North Melbourne @ Docklands (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x4)

R9: Brisbane Lions @ Gabba (QLD)
R15: Greater Western Sydney @ Sydney Showground (NSW)
R19: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R23: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)

WEST COAST = +7
Hawks at Etihad and an away game against a fellow traveller give them a positive edge.

+10 GAMES (x10)
R1: Sydney @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R3: Geelong @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R4: Gold Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R7: Port Adelaide @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R9: Richmond @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R11: St Kilda @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R14: Essendon @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R16: Greater Western Sydney @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R18: Western Bulldogs @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R22: Melbourne @ Optus Stadium (WA)
+1 GAMES (x1)
R20: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)
-1 GAMES (x1)
R6: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)

-5 GAMES (x1)
R19: North Melbourne @ Bellerive Oval (TAS)

-8 GAMES (x1)
R10: Hawthorn @ Docklands (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x8)
R2: Western Bulldogs @ Docklands (VIC)
R5: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R8: Greater Western Sydney @ Sydney Showground (NSW)
R13: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R15: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R17: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R21: Port Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R23: Brisbane Lions @ Gabba (QLD)

FREMANTLE = +34
Bonus home game, Melbourne in NT and GWS outside of Sydney is a gift of a fixture

+10 GAMES (x11)
R2: Essendon @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R3: Gold Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R5: Western Bulldogs @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R8: St Kilda @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R10: North Melbourne @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R12: Adelaide @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R15: Brisbane Lions @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R17: Port Adelaide @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R19: Hawthorn @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R21: Carlton @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R23: Collingwood @ Optus Stadium (WA)

+1 GAMES (x1)
R6: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)

-1 GAMES (x1)
R20: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R16: Melbourne @ Marrara Oval (NT)

-5 GAMES (x1)
R4: Greater Western Sydney @ UNSW Canberra Oval (ACT)

-10 GAMES (x7)
R1: Port Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R7: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R9: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R11: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R13: Carlton @ Docklands (VIC)
R18: Essendon @ Docklands (VIC)
R22: Geelong @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)

PORT ADELAIDE = +14

When you get to dictate where an away game is (China) you will end up positive on the ledger.

+10 GAMES (x10)
R1: Fremantle @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R3: Brisbane Lions @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R5: Geelong @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R12: Richmond @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R13: Western Bulldogs @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R14: Melbourne @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R16: St Kilda @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R18: Greater Western Sydney @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R21: West Coast @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R23: Essendon @ Adelaide Oval (SA)

+1 GAMES (x1)
R8: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)

-1 GAMES (x2)
R9: Gold Coast @ Adelaide Arena at Jiangwan Stadium (CHI)
R20: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)

-5 GAMES (x1)
R11: Hawthorn @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)

-10 GAMES (x8)
R2: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R4: Essendon @ Docklands (VIC)
R6: North Melbourne @ Docklands (VIC)
R7: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R15: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R17: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R19: Western Bulldogs @ Mars Stadium (VIC)
R22: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)

COLLINGWOOD = -7
Don’t get all their home games at the G, but enjoy numerous away games the G

+10 GAMES (x4)
R2: Greater Western Sydney @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R11: Fremantle @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R17: West Coast @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R22: Port Adelaide @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+5 GAMES (x1)
R21: Brisbane Lions @ Docklands (VIC)

+2 GAMES (x2)
R8: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R18: North Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+1 GAMES (x3)
R5: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R6: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R14: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-1 GAMES (x5)
R1: Hawthorn @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R3: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R12: Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R16: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R19: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-2 GAMES (x2)
R9: St Kilda @ Docklands (VIC)
R10: Western Bulldogs @ Docklands (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x5)
R4: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R7: Brisbane Lions @ Gabba (QLD)
R15: Gold Coast @ Carrara (QLD)
R20: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R23: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)

GEELONG = +14
An easy run as they play 9 games at the Cattery and 7 at the G. Who else plays 7 ‘away’ games at the one venue?? Carlton have 7 games at the G and many consider them a ‘tenant!’.

+10 GAMES (x5)
R6: Sydney @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R7: Greater Western Sydney @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R19: Brisbane Lions @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R22: Fremantle @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R23: Gold Coast @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)

+5 GAMES (x4)
R10: Carlton @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R12: North Melbourne @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R18: Melbourne @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R4: St Kilda @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)

-2 GAMES (x8)
R1: Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R2: Hawthorn @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R8: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R9: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R13: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R15: Western Bulldogs @ Docklands (VIC)
R20: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R21: Hawthorn @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x5)
R3: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R5: Port Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R11: Gold Coast @ Carrara (QLD)
R16: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R17: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)


RICHMOND = -10

Richmond host only 3 interstate teams at the G, while having to travel interstate themselves five times. Even an away game against the Cats at the G doesn’t offset that inequity.

+10 GAMES (x3)
R4: Brisbane Lions @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R7: Fremantle @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R16: Adelaide @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+5 GAMES (x1)
R15: Sydney @ Docklands (VIC)

+2 GAMES (x4)
R13: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R20: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R10: St Kilda @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R23: Western Bulldogs @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+1 GAMES (x4)
R1: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R3: Hawthorn @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R19: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R22: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)


-1 GAMES (x3)
R5: Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R6: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R11: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-2 GAMES (x2)
R8: North Melbourne @ Docklands (VIC)
R18: St Kilda @ Docklands (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x5)
R2: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R9: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R12: Port Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R17: Greater Western Sydney @ Sydney Showground (NSW)
R21: Gold Coast @ Carrara (QLD)
I’m impressed. You’ve managed to apply minimum disadvantage to any team traveling to Tasmania (-5),or the NT(-1) while at the same time contributing minimum advantage to yourself playing Geelong or Marvel tenants at home (+2)

You even count Collingwood playing games at the MCG as a disadvantage! (-1) And value that almost on par with Geelong playing home games against you on your home ground! Or Freo playing in the NT!

Collingwood hasn’t been disadvantaged in any game played at the MCG in over 20 years

Even with all of your creative accounting, West Coast only ended up 1 point ahead of Hawthorn after you’ve cooked the books as hard as you can

bloody good effort to get the hawks over the line, especially considering they only

I) travelled interstate for an away game 4 times

ii) hosted travelling teams 6 times

iii) hosted Geelong on the mcg twice

Impressive work
 
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I'm not 100% sure but I think statistically Geelong and West Coast have the biggest home ground advantages.
Statistically in the AFL there are home ground advantages in the home and away season and in finals. These statistics indicate a net advantage for non Victorian clubs.
There's no statistical evidence that Victorian teams have an advantage over non Victorian teams in grand finals at the MCG.

I would suggest since teams developed full ground team defence zones, which was Clarkos cluster in 2008, only the Swans in 2012 and Eagles in 2018 have won from interstate and a big reason the Eagles win was they changed the dimensions of their home ground to be the same as the g.

I think if you look before that, the only underdog interstate teams to win the gf were the crows in 97 and 98, all other interstate winning teams were clearly the best team all year
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
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I’m impressed. You’ve managed to apply minimum disadvantage to any team traveling to Tasmania (-5),or the NT(-1) while at the same time contributing minimum advantage to yourself playing Geelong or Marvel tenants at home (+2)
You do realise that the advantage and disadvantages have to net to zero?!

So yes, if travel is an impost and BOTH teams playing in a game are BOTH traveling then who is advantaged and disadvantaged? A. Neither.

The travel disadvantage disappears.

In Tassie Hawthorn retain ground familiarity and ‘conditions’ advantage, hence get a +5.

In NT, Melbourne have no ground, conditions or any advantage so get a nominal +1 as it is their home game. Finasiren didn’t allocate 0s for neutral games.

You even count Collingwood playing games at the MCG as a disadvantage! (-1)
Yep a ‘home’ game v Tigers is a +1, away game against Tigers is a -1.

That is the same for all of the same city derbies, as get all your home reserved seat members in premium seats.
And value that almost on par with Geelong playing home games against you on your home ground! Or Freo playing in the NT!
Geelong play 7 games at the G
They are just as familiar with the G as Carlton, they get plenty of fans at the G, they sleep in their own bed all that sh*t.

So yes, Geelong play a game at the G really is a marginal advantage / disadvantage.

You keep failing to grasp the advantage and disadvantage must zero out for each individual game.

A game in the NT, Melbourne travel just as far as Freo. They aren’t used to conditions, don’t play in front of normal crowd and only play at the venue once each...there is no advantage to Melbourne, and thus no disadvantage to Freo.
Collingwood hasn’t been disadvantaged in any game played at the MCG in over 20 years
Tis exactly the same as awarding WC a -1 for an away derby.

Finalsiren nominated Home team as a nominal +1 and away as -1 in same tenant clashes.
Even with all of your creative accounting, West Coast only ended up 1 point ahead of Hawthorn after you’ve cooked the books as hard as you could

bloody good effort to get the hawks over the line, especially considering they only

I) travelled interstate for an away game 4 times

ii) hosted travelling teams 6 times

iii) hosted Geelong on the mcg twice

Impressive work
They didn’t ‘host’ travelling teams 6 times.

They played three games where BOTH teams travelled. How can either team face a travel disadvantage over the other when BOTH travel?

And yes they were given two advantages for games against Geelong, where Geelong played 7 times to the Hawks 9...but clearly that advantage is negligible in comparison to a team who travels (Geelong don’t fly to Melbourne), who aren’t familiar with the ground (Geelong play 7 games at the G) and who have no crowd support (Geelong have plenty of fans in Melbourne and Easter Monday games aren’t completely one sided). So yes comparatively it is a +2
 

Ian Dunross

Premiership Player
Mar 18, 2013
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All non-Vic teams are shafted by the AFL, especially West Coast, Vics have all the advantages and they are massive.

Seriously, if i supported a non-Vic team i would pull the pin and put my money into state leagues, people must have rocks in their heads to abandon their clubs for this Victorian league.
Good thing they did tho otherwise the Vic clubs would have been wound up
 

bh90210fan

Premiership Player
Sep 4, 2017
3,449
3,974
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You do realise that the advantage and disadvantages have to net to zero?!

So yes, if travel is an impost and BOTH teams playing in a game are BOTH traveling then who is advantaged and disadvantaged? A. Neither.

The travel disadvantage disappears.

In Tassie Hawthorn retain ground familiarity and ‘conditions’ advantage, hence get a +5.

In NT, Melbourne have no ground, conditions or any advantage so get a nominal +1 as it is their home game. Finasiren didn’t allocate 0s for neutral games.


Yep a ‘home’ game v Tigers is a +1, away game against Tigers is a -1.

That is the same for all of the same city derbies, as get all your home reserved seat members in premium seats.

Geelong play 7 games at the G
They are just as familiar with the G as Carlton, they get plenty of fans at the G, they sleep in their own bed all that sh*t.

So yes, Geelong play a game at the G really is a marginal advantage / disadvantage.

You keep failing to grasp the advantage and disadvantage must zero out for each individual game.

A game in the NT, Melbourne travel just as far as Freo. They aren’t used to conditions, don’t play in front of normal crowd and only play at the venue once each...there is no advantage to Melbourne, and thus no disadvantage to Freo.

Tis exactly the same as awarding WC a -1 for an away derby.

Finalsiren nominated Home team as a nominal +1 and away as -1 in same tenant clashes.

They didn’t ‘host’ travelling teams 6 times.

They played three games where BOTH teams travelled. How can either team face a travel disadvantage over the other when BOTH travel?

And yes they were given two advantages for games against Geelong, where Geelong played 7 times to the Hawks 9...but clearly that advantage is negligible in comparison to a team who travels (Geelong don’t fly to Melbourne), who aren’t familiar with the ground (Geelong play 7 games at the G) and who have no crowd support (Geelong have plenty of fans in Melbourne and Easter Monday games aren’t completely one sided). So yes comparatively it is a +2
You attribute the same amount of disadvantage to Freo playing a game in the NT as you do for Collingwood running out of the friggin visitors change room at the MCG

How often do Freo play in the NT? Melbourne play there every year

The disadvantage teams face in Tasmania isn’t cut in half. Years of results show teams are LESS likely to win there. No one wants to play games against Hawthorn or North in Tasmania.

Hosting Geelong at your home ground for a nominal away fixture is worth more than 2 points. Especially if you think Collingwood playing an away game on the MCG is worth a disadvantage of 1 point. Not having to play Geelong on their home ground inflates your ladder position every year

you’ve managed to take the squiggles assessment which has Hawthorn being the most advantaged and literally put them worse off than every single Non Victorian side that year!!

how the hell can be when Hawthorn only left Victoria for an away fixture 4 times, but hosted traveling teams 6 times!!! PLUS they host Geelong twice

Somehow West Coast ended up with more hga according to you after playing the same number of games with a advantage / disadvantage!!

nice try but you’re having a laugh
 

LoungeLizard

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
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You attribute the same amount of disadvantage to Freo playing a game in the NT as you do for Collingwood running out of the friggin visitors change room at the MCG

How often do Freo play in the NT? Melbourne play there every year

The disadvantage teams face in Tasmania isn’t cut in half. Years of results show teams are LESS likely to win there. No one wants to play games against Hawthorn or North in Tasmania.

Hosting Geelong at your home ground for a nominal away fixture is worth more than 2 points. Especially if you think Collingwood playing an away game on the MCG is worth a disadvantage of 1 point. Not having to play Geelong on their home ground inflates your ladder position every year

you’ve managed to take the squiggles assessment which has Hawthorn being the most advantaged and literally put them worse off than every single Non Victorian side that year!!

how the hell can be when Hawthorn only left Victoria for an away fixture 4 times, but hosted traveling teams 6 times!!! PLUS they host Geelong twice

Somehow West Coast ended up with more hga according to you after playing the same number of games with a advantage / disadvantage!!

nice try but you’re having a laugh
I'm also having a laugh, you support a Vic league and you are having a huge cry about it.

No-one is holding a gun to your head, you can go support a team with 100 years of history, the teams that most abandoned.


Brownlow medal

Coleman medal

Norm Smith medal

Grand Final at the G FOREVER


Does this tell you something?
 

doppleganger

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You attribute the same amount of disadvantage to Freo playing a game in the NT as you do for Collingwood running out of the friggin visitors change room at the MCG
Again you fail to grasp the point that in each game the advantage and disadvantage have to zero out.

Melbourne v Collingwood at the G on QBDay

It is effectively a neutral game

Neither side travels
Both sleep at home
Both get regular routine
Both teams call the G home
Both teams play 10+ games at the G
Both will have large crowd support

It is a neutral game, neither has any advantage (and therefore no disadvantage) over the other.

So the nominal home team given a +1 and away -1. Make them both 0 if you want...it doesn’t matter.

Melbourne v Freo in Darwin

BOTH teams travel
BOTH teams have routine disrupted
BOTH teams sleep in hotels
Neither team calls TIO stadium home
BOTH teams will play just the one game at TIO stadium
Neither team has any dominant crowd support

It is a neutral game, neither team has any advantage over the other. Melbourne has lost all advantage that is associated with playing at home, and this their opponent experience no disadvantage.


The disadvantage teams face in Tasmania isn’t cut in half. Years of results show teams are LESS likely to win there. No one wants to play games against Hawthorn or North in Tasmania.
What makes up the advantage?

Travel - impost exists in Tassie, but doesn’t happen in a game at the G

Are you saying travel isn’t a disadvantage? Good let’s be consistent on that from now on.


Hosting Geelong at your home ground for a nominal away fixture is worth more than 2 points. Especially if you think Collingwood playing an away game on the MCG is worth a disadvantage of 1 point. Not having to play Geelong on their home ground inflates your ladder position every year
You again fail to grasp the concept that each individual game the advantage nets to 0.

So yes in a Richmond v Collingwood game at the G, there is no real advantage either way.

Collingwood v Essendon at the G, most accept this as a neutral game. And thus awarded the nominal +1, -1. Again make it zero if you want.

Two Melbourne teams
Both sleep in bed
Both have normal routine
Both familiar with the G (14 v 8)
Both get plenty of crowd support

Collingwood v Geelong at the G.

Two vic teams, but not Melbourne
Both sleep in bed
One modified routine as potentially a longer drive
Both familiar with G (14 v 7)
Both get plenty of crowd support

It was our home game you nuffie, so think generous in even giving a +2...Geelong play at the G 7 times, just 1 less than Essendon who all consider to be a ‘tenant’.

When you play at a ground 7 times, sleep in your own bed, have plenty of crowd support you really only face minimal disadvantage.

you’ve managed to take the squiggles assessment which has Hawthorn being the most advantaged and literally put them worse off than every single Non Victorian side that year!!
Yeah, that was with me rating travel as an impost.

Hawthorn have to travel for 4 home games, no other team does that.

But yes, as you acknowledge that travel is not a factor then may need to readjust.
how the hell can be when Hawthorn only left Victoria for an away fixture 4 times, but hosted traveling teams 6 times!!!
They didn’t ‘host’ 6 teams at their home.

They left Melbourne for 4 ‘home’ games. How many home games did the Eagles have to travel for?

Oh yes, I keep forgetting that you think that traveling isn’t a disadvantage.

Somehow West Coast ended up with more hga according to you after playing the same number of games with a advantage / disadvantage!!
Na, you are just too thick to realise that playing a game at a venue that isn’t your opponents home ground doesn’t balance out.

In 2018 Eagles and Hawthorn played each other twice in H&A.

Game one
Hawthorn didn’t get to host the Eagles at home.

Game two
Eagles host Hawthorn at their home ground.

The advantages/disadvantages aren’t the same.

nice try but you’re having a laugh
I am laughing, as you still can’t grasp that the advantage/disadvantage must zero out for each individual game.

But good to know that you think travel isn’t a disadvantage.
 

Underarm

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 13, 2011
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Here you go, just use your 2018 list but adjust ratings more appro

Breakdown

+10 home game at your ground against a team from a different state

+8 home game at alternate venue in same city against a team from a different state

+5 a home game with ground and crowd familiarity significance, but either both teams travel or neither do have- Tassie, Cats v Melbourne based teams, Lions v Suns at GaBbA

+2 a home game in Melbourne with ground familiarity advantage against fellow Vic team ie Pies v North at the G, Saints v Cats at Etihad

+1 nominal home game against city rival who plays in that stadium, or nce off game where two teams travel to a random stadium, ie China, NZ experiment, NT games, Cairns clashes etc.

Using those ratings Freo, Port, Geelong get huge advantage. Hawks similar time Eagles...poor old MCG tenants are shafted

2018

Hawthorn = +6
Luck out with double up against Cats at the G.

+10 GAMES (x2)
R8: Sydney @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R13: Adelaide @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+8 GAMES (x1)
R10: West Coast @ Docklands (VIC)

+5 GAMES (x4)

R6: St Kilda @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)
R11: Port Adelaide @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)
R14: Gold Coast @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)
R17: Brisbane Lions @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)

+2 GAMES (X2)

R2: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R21: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+1 GAMES (x3)
R1: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R4: Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R20: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-1 GAMES (x3)
R3: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R7: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R18: Carlton @ Docklands (VIC)

-2 GAMES (x3)
R22: St Kilda @ Docklands (VIC)
R16: Western Bulldogs @ Docklands (VIC)
R5: North Melbourne @ Docklands (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x4)

R9: Brisbane Lions @ Gabba (QLD)
R15: Greater Western Sydney @ Sydney Showground (NSW)
R19: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R23: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)

WEST COAST = +7
Hawks at Etihad and an away game against a fellow traveller give them a positive edge.

+10 GAMES (x10)
R1: Sydney @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R3: Geelong @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R4: Gold Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R7: Port Adelaide @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R9: Richmond @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R11: St Kilda @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R14: Essendon @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R16: Greater Western Sydney @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R18: Western Bulldogs @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R22: Melbourne @ Optus Stadium (WA)
+1 GAMES (x1)
R20: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)
-1 GAMES (x1)
R6: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)

-5 GAMES (x1)
R19: North Melbourne @ Bellerive Oval (TAS)

-8 GAMES (x1)
R10: Hawthorn @ Docklands (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x8)
R2: Western Bulldogs @ Docklands (VIC)
R5: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R8: Greater Western Sydney @ Sydney Showground (NSW)
R13: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R15: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R17: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R21: Port Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R23: Brisbane Lions @ Gabba (QLD)

FREMANTLE = +34
Bonus home game, Melbourne in NT and GWS outside of Sydney is a gift of a fixture

+10 GAMES (x11)
R2: Essendon @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R3: Gold Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R5: Western Bulldogs @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R8: St Kilda @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R10: North Melbourne @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R12: Adelaide @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R15: Brisbane Lions @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R17: Port Adelaide @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R19: Hawthorn @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R21: Carlton @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R23: Collingwood @ Optus Stadium (WA)

+1 GAMES (x1)
R6: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)

-1 GAMES (x1)
R20: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R16: Melbourne @ Marrara Oval (NT)

-5 GAMES (x1)
R4: Greater Western Sydney @ UNSW Canberra Oval (ACT)

-10 GAMES (x7)
R1: Port Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R7: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R9: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R11: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R13: Carlton @ Docklands (VIC)
R18: Essendon @ Docklands (VIC)
R22: Geelong @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)

PORT ADELAIDE = +14

When you get to dictate where an away game is (China) you will end up positive on the ledger.

+10 GAMES (x10)
R1: Fremantle @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R3: Brisbane Lions @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R5: Geelong @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R12: Richmond @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R13: Western Bulldogs @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R14: Melbourne @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R16: St Kilda @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R18: Greater Western Sydney @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R21: West Coast @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R23: Essendon @ Adelaide Oval (SA)

+1 GAMES (x1)
R8: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)

-1 GAMES (x2)
R9: Gold Coast @ Adelaide Arena at Jiangwan Stadium (CHI)
R20: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)

-5 GAMES (x1)
R11: Hawthorn @ University of Tasmania Stadium (TAS)

-10 GAMES (x8)
R2: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R4: Essendon @ Docklands (VIC)
R6: North Melbourne @ Docklands (VIC)
R7: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R15: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R17: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R19: Western Bulldogs @ Mars Stadium (VIC)
R22: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)

COLLINGWOOD = -7
Don’t get all their home games at the G, but enjoy numerous away games the G

+10 GAMES (x4)
R2: Greater Western Sydney @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R11: Fremantle @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R17: West Coast @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R22: Port Adelaide @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+5 GAMES (x1)
R21: Brisbane Lions @ Docklands (VIC)

+2 GAMES (x2)
R8: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R18: North Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+1 GAMES (x3)
R5: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R6: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R14: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-1 GAMES (x5)
R1: Hawthorn @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R3: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R12: Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R16: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R19: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-2 GAMES (x2)
R9: St Kilda @ Docklands (VIC)
R10: Western Bulldogs @ Docklands (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x5)
R4: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R7: Brisbane Lions @ Gabba (QLD)
R15: Gold Coast @ Carrara (QLD)
R20: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R23: Fremantle @ Optus Stadium (WA)

GEELONG = +14
An easy run as they play 9 games at the Cattery and 7 at the G. Who else plays 7 ‘away’ games at the one venue?? Carlton have 7 games at the G and many consider them a ‘tenant!’.

+10 GAMES (x5)
R6: Sydney @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R7: Greater Western Sydney @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R19: Brisbane Lions @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R22: Fremantle @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R23: Gold Coast @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)

+5 GAMES (x4)
R10: Carlton @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R12: North Melbourne @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R18: Melbourne @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)
R4: St Kilda @ GMHBA Stadium (Gee)

-2 GAMES (x8)
R1: Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R2: Hawthorn @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R8: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R9: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R13: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R15: Western Bulldogs @ Docklands (VIC)
R20: Richmond @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R21: Hawthorn @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x5)
R3: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R5: Port Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R11: Gold Coast @ Carrara (QLD)
R16: Sydney @ S.C.G. (NSW)
R17: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)


RICHMOND = -10

Richmond host only 3 interstate teams at the G, while having to travel interstate themselves five times. Even an away game against the Cats at the G doesn’t offset that inequity.

+10 GAMES (x3)
R4: Brisbane Lions @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R7: Fremantle @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R16: Adelaide @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+5 GAMES (x1)
R15: Sydney @ Docklands (VIC)

+2 GAMES (x4)
R13: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R20: Geelong @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R10: St Kilda @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R23: Western Bulldogs @ M.C.G. (VIC)

+1 GAMES (x4)
R1: Carlton @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R3: Hawthorn @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R19: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R22: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)


-1 GAMES (x3)
R5: Melbourne @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R6: Collingwood @ M.C.G. (VIC)
R11: Essendon @ M.C.G. (VIC)

-2 GAMES (x2)
R8: North Melbourne @ Docklands (VIC)
R18: St Kilda @ Docklands (VIC)

-10 GAMES (x5)
R2: Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R9: West Coast @ Optus Stadium (WA)
R12: Port Adelaide @ Adelaide Oval (SA)
R17: Greater Western Sydney @ Sydney Showground (NSW)
R21: Gold Coast @ Carrara (QLD)
I would probably bump up the NT Melbourne games to 2, maybe even 5. They do play there every single year so they must have built some ground familiarity compared to Fremantle. Hawthorn v West Coast should be +/-5, not 8.

It would be impossible to make every club come out at 0, but outside of rare instances, Every club should be within -10 and +10
 

bh90210fan

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Again you fail to grasp the point that in each game the advantage and disadvantage have to zero out.

Melbourne v Collingwood at the G on QBDay

It is effectively a neutral game

Neither side travels
Both sleep at home
Both get regular routine
Both teams call the G home
Both teams play 10+ games at the G
Both will have large crowd support

It is a neutral game, neither has any advantage (and therefore no disadvantage) over the other.

So the nominal home team given a +1 and away -1. Make them both 0 if you want...it doesn’t matter.
You know what happens when you make them 0? You’re overall score goes down. If you play more +1 games than -1 games it does matter

the fact you can take hawthorns fixture and pretend they were more disadvantaged than every single non Victorian team in 2018 shows how completely messed up your scoring system is

A 40 minute flight to Launceston doesn’t diminish Hawthorns advantage. Both them and North have played home games in Tasmania for a long time now. If they were impacted at all results would show it. They don’t
 

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doppleganger

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I would probably bump up the NT Melbourne games to 2, maybe even 5. They do play there every single year so they must have built some ground familiarity compared to Fremantle. Hawthorn v West Coast should be +/-5, not 8.

It would be impossible to make every club come out at 0, but outside of rare instances, Every club should be within -10 and +10
Can tweak the adjustments, but the point is that not all home games are the same.

It is just silly to claim Collingwood enjoy the same advantage at Etihad as they do at the G.

And even sillier to try to claim a team playing a home game where they actually have to travel to a different state can enjoy the same advantage as when playing on your actual dung heap where you play 10+ times.

That would mean travel, routine, where you sleep, how many games you have played at a ground all don’t matter...
 

doppleganger

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You know what happens when you make them 0? You’re overall score goes down. If you play more +1 games than -1 games it does matter
??
If you play more -1 than +1 the score would go up!
Which is why I kept them...as +1,-1.

But you appear to struggle with the premise that the away disadvantage actually has to equal the home advantage.

the fact you can take hawthorns fixture and pretend they were more disadvantaged than every single non Victorian team in 2018 shows how completely messed up your scoring system is
I have ‘taken’ anything.

Hawthorn play 9 games outside Victoria. That is just one less than the non-vic teams.

But the teams then have 10 games on their actual home ground where their opponents have to travel to play them.

Hawthorn get just 2 games at the G, their actual home ground, where their opponents have traveled.

Pretty clear that if travel is a disadvantage, Hawks are dudded.

I keep forgetting that your position is that traveling is not a disadvantage.

A 40 minute flight to Launceston doesn’t diminish Hawthorns advantage. Both them and North have played home games in Tasmania for a long time now. If they were impacted at all results would show it. They don’t
Great to know that travel, flying on a plane, sleeping in a hotel, having your regular routine impacted and not playing on your home ground isn’t a disadvantage compared to sleeping in your own bed, not flying, keeping your normal routine and playing at your home ground.

Probably why GF results show it is a 50/50 coin toss.
 

bh90210fan

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??
If you play more -1 than +1 the score would go up!
Which is why I kept them...as +1,-1.

But you appear to struggle with the premise that the away disadvantage actually has to equal the home advantage.


I have ‘taken’ anything.

Hawthorn play 9 games outside Victoria. That is just one less than the non-vic teams.

But the teams then have 10 games on their actual home ground where their opponents have to travel to play them.

Hawthorn get just 2 games at the G, their actual home ground, where their opponents have traveled.

Pretty clear that if travel is a disadvantage, Hawks are dudded.

I keep forgetting that your position is that traveling is not a disadvantage.


Great to know that travel, flying on a plane, sleeping in a hotel, having your regular routine impacted and not playing on your home ground isn’t a disadvantage compared to sleeping in your own bed, not flying, keeping your normal routine and playing at your home ground.

Probably why GF results show it is a 50/50 coin toss.
There is 0 advantage when MCG tenants play each other. Attributing points to those games affects your overall score. Collingwood can’t be disadvantaged playing a game at the MCG .... FMD

When Hawthorn and North host teams in Tasmania the teams they play against travel also. Friggin Hawthorn travel the same distance in a whole seasons worth of Tasmania games as West Coast does in one trip to Melbourne. After years of playing games in Tasmania results show teams are no more likely to win against them there. Pretending their advantage is cut in half is embarrassing
 

doppleganger

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There is 0 advantage when MCG tenants play each other. Attributing points to those games affects your overall score. Collingwood can’t be disadvantaged playing a game at the MCG .... FMD
Make it 0

Hawthorn had 3 home and 3 away, so don’t change they stay +6

Collingwood had 3 home and 5 away, so add 2, and the Pies go to -5

Richmond has 4 home and 3 away, so lose 1, and drop further to -11

When Hawthorn and North host teams in Tasmania the teams they play against travel also.
No sh*t.

That is the point.

BOTH teams travel
BOTH teams sleep in hotels
BOTH teams normal routine is shot
BOTH teams are away from home

In the maximum home-ground advantage scenario

One team doesn’t travel
One team sleeps at home
One team has their routine
One team is ~ 10x more familiar with the ground and conditions

When both teams travel, the same level of advantage/disadvantage doesn’t apply....unless travel, where you sleep, your routine, ground familiarity don’t matter.
After years of playing games in Tasmania results show teams are no more likely to win against them there. Pretending their advantage is cut in half is embarrassing
I agree with your view that travel, flying, sleeping in hotels, routine and the ground isnt a disadvantage.

Results of years of GFs also show that vic teams are no more likely to beat non vic teams, further supporting that premise.
 

blue harvest

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When Hawthorn and North host teams in Tasmania the teams they play against travel also. Friggin Hawthorn travel the same distance in a whole seasons worth of Tasmania games as West Coast does in one trip to Melbourne. After years of playing games in Tasmania results show teams are no more likely to win against them there. Pretending their advantage is cut in half is embarrassing
Travel is not just about the km on a plane, it is about the disruption to your normal routine, packing bags, organising someone to look after the dog, going to airport, waiting to board, bus to hotel, sleeping in a different bed etc, it's a day out of your life regardless of whether it's a 1 hour or 4 hour flight.
Hawks tend to play the lesser teams in Tassie, that's why their record there is good.
For example we often get Freo there, but after the 2013 GF we got Freo at the G the next year (and decimated them).
Same with Eagles, after the 2015 GF we got them at the G the next year (and decimated them).
Hawks advantage in Tassie is much less than the G, Doppleganger is right. I think cutting our advantage in half is about right, maybe even a bit less than half.
 

bh90210fan

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Make it 0

Hawthorn had 3 home and 3 away, so don’t change they stay +6

Collingwood had 3 home and 5 away, so add 2, and the Pies go to -5

Richmond has 4 home and 3 away, so lose 1, and drop further to -11


No sh*t.

That is the point.

BOTH teams travel
BOTH teams sleep in hotels
BOTH teams normal routine is shot
BOTH teams are away from home

In the maximum home-ground advantage scenario

One team doesn’t travel
One team sleeps at home
One team has their routine
One team is ~ 10x more familiar with the ground and conditions

When both teams travel, the same level of advantage/disadvantage doesn’t apply....unless travel, where you sleep, your routine, ground familiarity don’t matter.


I agree with your view that travel, flying, sleeping in hotels, routine and the ground isnt a disadvantage.

Results of years of GFs also show that vic teams are no more likely to beat non vic teams, further supporting that premise.
Do you honestly believe that Hawthorn in 2018, was more disadvantaged overall than every non Victorian side in the comp?
 

bh90210fan

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Travel is not just about the km on a plane, it is about the disruption to your normal routine, packing bags, organising someone to look after the dog, going to airport, waiting to board, bus to hotel, sleeping in a different bed etc, it's a day out of your life regardless of whether it's a 1 hour or 4 hour flight.
Hawks tend to play the lesser teams in Tassie, that's why their record there is good.
For example we often get Freo there, but after the 2013 GF we got Freo at the G the next year (and decimated them).
Same with Eagles, after the 2015 GF we got them at the G the next year (and decimated them).
Hawks advantage in Tassie is much less than the G, Doppleganger is right. I think cutting our advantage in half is about right, maybe even a bit less than half.
Who the feck needs to look after your dog when you go on a friggin 40min trip? Jeezus. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel

You got Fremantle when they finished top of the ladder in 2015 and West Coast when we made a prelim

North play the sides you don’t in Tasmania.

have you compared your win/loss record at the mcg vs Tasmania against non Victorian sides? I have and you and North both do extremely well in Tassie
 

kranky al

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There is 0 advantage when MCG tenants play each other. Attributing points to those games affects your overall score. Collingwood can’t be disadvantaged playing a game at the MCG .... FMD

When Hawthorn and North host teams in Tasmania the teams they play against travel also. Friggin Hawthorn travel the same distance in a whole seasons worth of Tasmania games as West Coast does in one trip to Melbourne. After years of playing games in Tasmania results show teams are no more likely to win against them there. Pretending their advantage is cut in half is embarrassing
pretending their advantage is cut is annihilated by statistics.

north have an amazing record in tassie - i dont know why anyone with a functioning brain would try to use this to illustrate their argument.
 

doppleganger

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Do you honestly believe that Hawthorn in 2018, was more disadvantaged overall than every non Victorian side in the comp?
We are talking ‘home ground advantage’.

Hawthorn play four of their ‘home’ games outside of their fecking State.

They also often play a home game at alternate venues from their preferred home ground.

Hawthorn only get 2 or 3 games at the MCG against a traveling opponent, the proper full advantage games.

So yes, if you think travel contributes to any away/home disadvantage/advantage, that ground familiarity is important, it is pretty clear that Hawthorn is worse off.

We get that you think travel isn’t a disadvantage.
 

blue harvest

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Who the feck needs to look after your dog when you go on a friggin 40min trip? Jeezus. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel

You got Fremantle when they finished top of the ladder in 2015 and West Coast when we made a prelim

North play the sides you don’t in Tasmania.

have you compared your win/loss record at the mcg vs Tasmania against non Victorian sides? I have and you and North both do extremely well in Tassie
40 min?
They are gone for 2 days. The RSPCA would be on to you if you let your dog that long.

If I was an interstate side I would be celebrating if we were drawn to play Hawks in Tassie, the HGA is far less, and the flight time about the same as Melbourne. But every year we get the same bs on here from WA supporters who still think you have to fly via Melbourne despite you getting direct flights to Launceston for the last 15 years. The problem is WA sides go in with a loser victim attitude, Freo threw a game in Launceston one year.
 

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