Is the MCG a big advantage on Grand Final Day for Victorians against Interstate Sides? /Are Interstaters advantaged during the home and away season?

Is the MCG a significant advantage for Victorian sides against Interstate Teams on Grand Final Day?

  • Yes, It's a big advantage for the Vic Big Boys

    Votes: 234 68.2%
  • No. If you're good enough you'll win no matter who you play where you play

    Votes: 109 31.8%

  • Total voters
    343

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bh90210fan

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We are talking ‘home ground advantage’.

Hawthorn play four of their ‘home’ games outside of their fecking State.

They also often play a home game at alternate venues from their preferred home ground.

Hawthorn only get 2 or 3 games at the MCG against a traveling opponent, the proper full advantage games.

So yes, if you think travel contributes to any away/home disadvantage/advantage, that ground familiarity is important, it is pretty clear that Hawthorn is worse off.

We get that you think travel isn’t a disadvantage.
Do you honestly believe that Hawthorn was disadvantaged greater than every non Victorian side in the competition in 2018? Answer the question
 

doppleganger

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pretending their advantage is cut is annihilated by statistics.

north have an amazing record in tassie - i dont know why anyone with a functioning brain would try to use this to illustrate their argument.
Just as statistics show that non-Melbourne teams are over-represented in top4 in H&A.

Who would have guessed that teams who retained a home ground, instead of being bundled between two and forced to sell games, would be advantaged.

You nuffies on one hand are at a pains to point out that travel to Tassie doesn’t diminish an advantage - flying, sleeping in a hotel, interrupting your routine, and only playing a few games at the ground - it doesn’t matter full home ground advantage still exists.

But come GF the Eagles are disadvantaged because of - flying, sleeping in a hotel, interrupting your routine and only played a few games at the ground.
 

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bh90210fan

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In 2018 our 'home' game against the Eagles was at someone elses home ground and the Eagles win a close one. Play that at the G an we win and get 2nd spot and they finish 4th and don't get a cushy home run to the GF. #VICBIAS
You played 4 sides outside of Victoria at their home ground in 2018 and hosted 6 traveling sides. You play away games against Geelong on your home ground every single year. You shouldn’t have even been playing finals considering the hga you got that year
 

doppleganger

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Do you honestly believe that Hawthorn was disadvantaged greater than every non Victorian side in the competition in 2018? Answer the question
Yes.

They play Melbourne teams in neutral venues with no advantage.

They are forced to play non-vic teams in ‘home’ games at a ground they rarely play at.

And instead of playing traveling non-vic sides at home in Victoria, they end up traveling themselves and thus don’t benefit from the same advantage.

I actually think that travel is an impost and contributes to the home advantage/away disadvantage. So when BOTH teams travel the disadvantage and advantage are reduced for BOTH teams.

You are an Eagle supporter who thinks travel only counts if it is the Eagles traveling.
 

blue harvest

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You played 4 sides outside of Victoria at their home ground in 2018 and hosted 6 traveling sides. You play away games against Geelong on your home ground every single year. You shouldn’t have even been playing finals considering the hga you got that year
We don't get an advantage playing the Cats at the G because they also play there a lot, it's like a Perth derby, but against a good side.
 

doppleganger

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We don't get an advantage playing the Cats at the G because they also play there a lot, it's like a Perth derby, but against a good side.
Yeah in 2018

Hawks played 9 games at the G
Geelong played 7 games at the G

neither team traveled
Both sleep in own bed
Both very familiar with the ground
Both teams enjoy substantial crowd support

Hawthorn played Geelong at the MCG 27 times from 2008 to 2019, period where Hawthorn won four flags and dominated the league - the results at the G were Geelong 18 wins, Hawks 9

But the herp derp Eagles fan claims the Hawks get a home advantage just because.

Pity he can’t actually stick to a consistent argument of what actually creates the advantage.

The only argument is every time the Eagles play away they are at a full disadvantage...
 

kranky al

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Just as statistics show that non-Melbourne teams are over-represented in top4 in H&A.

Who would have guessed that teams who retained a home ground, instead of being bundled between two and forced to sell games, would be advantaged.

You nuffies on one hand are at a pains to point out that travel to Tassie doesn’t diminish an advantage - flying, sleeping in a hotel, interrupting your routine, and only playing a few games at the ground - it doesn’t matter full home ground advantage still exists.

But come GF the Eagles are disadvantaged because of - flying, sleeping in a hotel, interrupting your routine and only played a few games at the ground.
if its such a huge advantage explain the dockers....


as for north and tassie - they play 3 games a year there

thats 3 times as many games as we got at the mcg in 2015.
 
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doppleganger

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if its such a huge advantage explain the dockers....
Are Freo supposed to be an example of a poor team!?

Since the AFL introduction of Etihad in 2000, Freo have finished top 4 four times

Melbourne and Carlton just once
Essendon just twice

They are the teams who have lost their home identity - split between multiple stadiums and the Dees actually pushed away from the G.

Teams that retained a home ground, and now play majority of their away games at familiar neutral stadiums or where their ‘host’ also travels dominate top4 positions on the H&A ladder.

It really isn’t that surprising, all the stats show home advantage is real. So when you diminish home advantage for a select group of teams (Melbourne based teams) it is the non-Melbourne teams that benefit.

In the 2010s, the Eagles and Freo played the same or more games at Etihad than Coll, Richmond and Hawthorn.

Yet Eagle fans claim that Eagles v Coll at Optus is the same advantage/disadvantage as a Coll v Eagles game at Etihad.

And Geelong have hit the jackpot, as they get 9 games at CatPark, with a substantial advantage, but then can play 7 games at the G...it isn’t balanced, Geelong are very familiar with the G.

That is basically the Carlton & Essendon model, a split between two grounds...but unlike Geelong, Carlton and Essendon don’t really benefit from any significant advantage at either ground. They play Etihad tenants at Etihad, G based tenants at the G, and when they ‘host’ a non-VIC team they also have played 3 or 4 games at Etihad each year...so end up with a glut of neutral games, and home games where opponents are familiar at the grounds but then still cop the 5-6 full away disadvantage.

The results are there, non-Melbourne teams dominate top4.

But you poor Eagles just stick your head in the sand and scream ‘travel’....only to then claim Melbourne based teams traveling for home games isn’t a disadvantage, as travel, sleeping in hotels, disruption to routine, ground familiarity apparently isn’t a consistently applied disadvantage, it only applies whenever Eagles fans want it to.
 

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bh90210fan

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Yes.

They play Melbourne teams in neutral venues with no advantage.

They are forced to play non-vic teams in ‘home’ games at a ground they rarely play at.

And instead of playing traveling non-vic sides at home in Victoria, they end up traveling themselves and thus don’t benefit from the same advantage.

I actually think that travel is an impost and contributes to the home advantage/away disadvantage. So when BOTH teams travel the disadvantage and advantage are reduced for BOTH teams.

You are an Eagle supporter who thinks travel only counts if it is the Eagles traveling.
Oh, I agree with you. Travel plays a part in hga. The problem is though you’re only representing it for Hawthorn in your score. Non Victorian clubs travel twice as often as Melbourne teams but you haven’t attributed anything to any other club to show this bar Hawthorn.

if you’re going to take 5 advantage points off Hawthorn for a quick trip to Tasmania - when the teams they play against travel also, you should be giving teams points for traveling or not each game ie +2 points for no travel, -2 for flying interstate. 5 points I think is a bit OTT

eg Essendon v Collingwood would be awarded 2 points each (0 points for a neutral game +2 for no travel)

All of a sudden the travel burden you acknowledge gets fairly represented when calculating hga and Victorian clubs climb the home ground advantage ladder
 

kranky al

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Are Freo supposed to be an example of a poor team!?

Since the AFL introduction of Etihad in 2000, Freo have finished top 4 four times

Melbourne and Carlton just once
Essendon just twice

They are the teams who have lost their home identity - split between multiple stadiums and the Dees actually pushed away from the G.

Teams that retained a home ground, and now play majority of their away games at familiar neutral stadiums or where their ‘host’ also travels dominate top4 positions on the H&A ladder.

It really isn’t that surprising, all the stats show home advantage is real. So when you diminish home advantage for a select group of teams (Melbourne based teams) it is the non-Melbourne teams that benefit.

In the 2010s, the Eagles and Freo played the same or more games at Etihad than Coll, Richmond and Hawthorn.

Yet Eagle fans claim that Eagles v Coll at Optus is the same advantage/disadvantage as a Coll v Eagles game at Etihad.

And Geelong have hit the jackpot, as they get 9 games at CatPark, with a substantial advantage, but then can play 7 games at the G...it isn’t balanced, Geelong are very familiar with the G.

That is basically the Carlton & Essendon model, a split between two grounds...but unlike Geelong, Carlton and Essendon don’t really benefit from any significant advantage at either ground. They play Etihad tenants at Etihad, G based tenants at the G, and when they ‘host’ a non-VIC team they also have played 3 or 4 games at Etihad each year...so end up with a glut of neutral games, and home games where opponents are familiar at the grounds but then still cop the 5-6 full away disadvantage.

The results are there, non-Melbourne teams dominate top4.

But you poor Eagles just stick your head in the sand and scream ‘travel’....only to then claim Melbourne based teams traveling for home games isn’t a disadvantage, as travel, sleeping in hotels, disruption to routine, ground familiarity apparently isn’t a consistently applied disadvantage, it only applies whenever Eagles fans want it to.
i love how your lot just repeat flat out lies to convince yourselves you arent getting a leg up. its instructive that you make up statistics to try and bolster your case thinking noone will check them.

interstate teams have made top 4 37 times in the last 20 years victorian teams 43

interstate teams make up 46.25% of top 4 teams

victorians make up 53.75% of top 4 teams.
 

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doppleganger

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Oh, I agree with you. Travel plays a part in hga. The problem is though you’re only representing it for Hawthorn in your score. Non Victorian clubs travel twice as often as Melbourne teams but you haven’t attributed anything to any other club to show this bar Hawthorn.

if you’re going to take 5 advantage points off Hawthorn for a quick trip to Tasmania - when the teams they play against travel also, you should be giving teams points for traveling or not each game ie +2 points for no travel, -2 for flying interstate. 5 points I think is a bit OTT

eg Essendon v Collingwood would be awarded 2 points each (0 points for a neutral game +2 for no travel)

All of a sudden the travel burden you acknowledge gets fairly represented when calculating hga and Victorian clubs climb the home ground advantage ladder
??

You can’t have teams play each other that are both advantaged! The advantage enjoyed by one team, is the disadvantage faced by the other...they zero out.

You still don’t get it.
You then work your way up to +10/-10 for games where one team is at their home and the other has to fly to play them.

What makes up the +10 is the point

+x for flying/-x not flying
+x for crowd/-x no crowd
+x for ground familiarity/-x
+x for routine sleeping/ -x
+x for psych factors defending territory

So yeah, in a game at Pies home game at Etihad against the Eagles, Eagles cop travel, routine, crowd, psych factors...but they are just as familiar at Etihad as the Pies are, hence dropped the advantage/disadvantage from 10 to 8

Dees for Eagles in NT, both fly, both lose routine, neither have psych advantage, crowd is neutral so only question is ground familiarity...playing 1 game a year v 1 randomly, so yeah make that a nominal small advantage...because both teams face a travel burden there is no advantage/disadvantage.

Same reason why have Geelong +10 for games at CatPark against non-vic teams, but just +5 for Melbourne teams...the Melbourne teams don’t get the same level of disadvantage.

So the travel ‘burden’ has been acknowledged, the application is consistent, the problem is you refuse to acknowledge that a team ‘selling’ a home game also faces a travel burden.
 
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kranky al

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As opposed to Fremantle's wining culture?
freo have made finals and made a gf - finished first

according to you lot our hga means we pretty much automatically get into finals each year.

except it doesnt



in a year that we won a flag we won 7 at home against fly ins 2 against the dockers.

thats nine games. nowhere near finals.

we won 7 games interstate to get us finals.

dont win interstate= no finals.
 

doppleganger

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i love how your lot just repeat flat out lies to convince yourselves you arent getting a leg up. its instructive that you make up statistics to try and bolster your case thinking noone will check them.

interstate teams have made top 4 37 times in the last 20 years victorian teams 43

interstate teams make up 46.25% of top 4 teams

victorians make up 53.75% of top 4 teams.
Are you thick?

Home advantage is a Melbourne v non-Melbourne thing.

The Melbourne teams were the ones who were shafted, Geelong retain their home ground.

Geelong have the biggest home ground advantage of any teams. Apart from random years where Freo get extra home games. As I noted back in the post earlier, they were +14.

They get games all home games at CatPark against non-VIC teams, where Melbourne teams usually play these games at alternate venues or in ******* other states.

Then they also enjoy significant ground familiarity and crowd advantage in games against Melbourne teams at CatPark, but don’t receive the similar disadvantage as they play bloody 7 games at the G each year and in games at the G you don’t only have a couple of thousand Cats fans wedges in amongst 30k Hawks etc

But yes, it is clear that you Eagle fans haven’t actually bothered to considered what factors contribute to the actual advantage part of HGA

Instead are just stuck at a simple the Eagles travel it isn’t fair.
 

Grin

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freo have made finals and made a gf - finished first

according to you lot our hga means we pretty much automatically get into finals each year.

except it doesnt



in a year that we won a flag we won 7 at home against fly ins 2 against the dockers.

thats nine games. nowhere near finals.

we won 7 games interstate to get us finals.

dont win interstate= no finals.
The statistics indicate that West Coast has amongst the biggest home advantages in the AFL, and that there is no home state advantage in grand finals at the MCG.

Richmond this year is easily the best performer in interstate (with the possible exception of Geelong).
If Richmond win the premiership I know you'll be congratulating us on the best, against the odds flag ever :thumbsu:
 

doppleganger

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freo have made finals and made a gf - finished first

according to you lot our hga means we pretty much automatically get into finals each year.

except it doesnt



in a year that we won a flag we won 7 at home against fly ins 2 against the dockers.

thats nine games. nowhere near finals.

we won 7 games interstate to get us finals.

dont win interstate= no finals.
The argument is non-Melbourne teams benefit from ground rationalisation in Melbourne during H&A.

Ground rationalisation has distorted the home/away advantage equilibrium.

Melbourne teams have seen their advantage reduce, even you acknowledge an MCG tenant playing home games at Etihad is sh*t.

The problem is you guys can’t then acknowledge that is one team is having their advantage reduced, that the opposition disadvantage also has to reduce.

This is reflected with non Melbourne teams dominating top 4 of H&A.

Finals system is a different kettle of fish, that is where Geelong lose out...but so do Etihad tenants. As they don’t get ‘home’ finals.

The argument to reward ‘higher ranked team’ with a ‘home’ GF is flawed due to benefits enjoyed by non-Melbourne as they actually have a home advantage during H&A season.

Come GF day, nobody is saying that there is no advantage, it is that the advantage/disadvantage is reduced as crowd, psych and routine factors don’t hold true.

So you are left with just sleeping and ground familiarity as the components contributing to any disadvantage, and if it is an Etihad tenant it is just travel/sleeping that is the advantage the group.

Hence if reverting back to the +10/-10 piece for maximum advantage

Come GF day, you are probably looking more like a +5 for a ‘MCG tenant’ and even less for an Etihad team hosting.

The AFL putting stadium contracts ahead of competition integrity benefits non-Melbourne clubs in H&A season, but not for the GF.

The hardest part of winning a GF is actually making it!
 

kranky al

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The argument is non-Melbourne teams benefit from ground rationalisation in Melbourne during H&A.

Ground rationalisation has distorted the home/away advantage equilibrium.

Melbourne teams have seen their advantage reduce, even you acknowledge an MCG tenant playing home games at Etihad is sh*t.

The problem is you guys can’t then acknowledge that is one team is having their advantage reduced, that the opposition disadvantage also has to reduce.

This is reflected with non Melbourne teams dominating top 4 of H&A.

Finals system is a different kettle of fish, that is where Geelong lose out...but so do Etihad tenants. As they don’t get ‘home’ finals.

The argument to reward ‘higher ranked team’ with a ‘home’ GF is flawed due to benefits enjoyed by non-Melbourne as they actually have a home advantage during H&A season.

Come GF day, nobody is saying that there is no advantage, it is that the advantage/disadvantage is reduced as crowd, psych and routine factors don’t hold true.

So you are left with just sleeping and ground familiarity as the components contributing to any disadvantage, and if it is an Etihad tenant it is just travel/sleeping that is the advantage the group.

Hence if reverting back to the +10/-10 piece for maximum advantage

Come GF day, you are probably looking more like a +5 for a ‘MCG tenant’ and even less for an Etihad team hosting.

The AFL putting stadium contracts ahead of competition integrity benefits non-Melbourne clubs in H&A season, but not for the GF.

The hardest part of winning a GF is actually making it!
there is zero chance of us winning a gf without winning lots if away games
 

kranky al

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The statistics indicate that West Coast has amongst the biggest home advantages in the AFL, and that there is no home state advantage in grand finals at the MCG.

Richmond this year is easily the best performer in interstate (with the possible exception of Geelong).
If Richmond win the premiership I know you'll be congratulating us on the best, against the odds flag ever :thumbsu:
already said i will

if you beat brisbane on their home deck its much more of an achievement than beating adelaide on your deck.
 

Final Siren

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i love how your lot just repeat flat out lies to convince yourselves you arent getting a leg up. its instructive that you make up statistics to try and bolster your case thinking noone will check them.

interstate teams have made top 4 37 times in the last 20 years victorian teams 43

interstate teams make up 46.25% of top 4 teams

victorians make up 53.75% of top 4 teams.
Mmm leaving out some important context here kranky:

Vic teams made up 59.4% of all teams over the same period.

Non-Vic teams made up 40.6% of all teams.

So non-Vic teams have been over-represented in the top 4.
 

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