Is this our deep-seated issue!?

[Schraderbrau]

Based purely on the threads started in the last couple of weeks, I think I have worked out what our issue is:

Buckley can't coach
We have no game plan
Our defenders are poorly skilled
We haven't sacked Buckley
We can't do kickouts
There is no belief
We only hire ex players
We need to bring back ex players
Pendles is not a good captian
We are not the Bulldogs
The supporters expect too much
Hine drafted poorly
We have no leadership
Jarrod Blair
We have a drug culture
We use a defensive zone
Our midfield setup is wrong
We have slow ball movement
We have slow players
Daveron
We don't have a ruck coach
We don't support Buckley enough
We support Buckley too much
We traded poorly
We can't develop players
It's Robbo's fault

Howes' dog?

 

[Schraderbrau]

Sadly the Football department TAX. will stop us getting the best available for every job - we cant afford them all

Why don't we just start paying the tax

 

[76woodenspooners]

Is our borderline incestuous mindset of having a CEO/President/Coach all the way down to the boot studder be a former player, the staunchest of Pies supporters or at least live in the suburb of Collingwood part of what is wrong with our club!?

It's extremely hard to see the bigger picture or even be rational in difficult times especially for fans but surely there must be times where passion for the guernsey is a detriment to progression or decision making at a high level within our organisation.

Is it time for a clean out?
Fresh set of eyes and ideas that doesn't have black and white running through their veins!?

Our last 2 premiership coaches were from other clubs with no connection to us.

Discuss.

Respectfully disagree.

Collingwood was founded in 1892 and the first year we appointed an outside coach was 1977 (Tommy Hafey)

There are plenty of favourite son coaches who do well. John Longmire, Paul Roos, John Worsfold, John Kennedy, Alex Jesalenko,... That's off the top of my head, there are probably a lot of others.

As for ex-players at the club ...

Who do we have? Buckley, Lockyer, A.Rocca, Presti, Johnson, Christian, Burns, our runner whose name I have forgotten ... Any others? That's seven out of around 60 or 80 off-field staff. Hardly a nepotism issue I would have thought?

 

[Jasper84]

Howes' dog?

That list was genuinely extracted from threads started in the last 2 weeks or so. Imagine if I tapped into the preseason ones or the chronic Jessie White,Cloke kicking, Sinclair, Gault threads!

 

[Schraderbrau]

Personally I trace all of our current issues back to the recruitment of Jason Wild

 

[Saintly Viewed]

We really should have given some games to Fatui Atatta

(Can never miss an opportunity to mention Fatui, just a classic reserves player)

 

[Saintly Viewed]

All the clubs discipline issues started here (,and it must be Nathan's fault)

 

[Kappa]

Respectfully disagree.

Collingwood was founded in 1892 and the first year we appointed an outside coach was 1977 (Tommy Hafey)

There are plenty of favourite son coaches who do well. John Longmire, Paul Roos, John Worsfold, John Kennedy, Alex Jesalenko,... That's off the top of my head, there are probably a lot of others.

As for ex-players at the club ...

Who do we have? Buckley, Lockyer, A.Rocca, Presti, Johnson, Christian, our runner whose name I have forgotten ... Any others? That's seven out of around 60 or 80 staff. Hardly a nepotism issue I would have thought?

Pert? Burns?

It's not so much about the numbres, but the positions they occupy. No one would give a shit if a former Collingwood player was head of the Collingwood merchandise shop, or working as a normal wage slave in the membership department.. but when they dominate crucial aspects of the football department questions need to be asked.

We have Pert and Eddie as heads of the club pretty much, ex player and major fan-boy

And we have Bucks Burnsy Rocca and Tarks as the "boys club" who fill up the majority of our coaching spots.

Are all these guys really the best possible candidates? Or were they given the job because they use to play for the club?

Every time Rocca speaks I cringe a little and wonder how on earth he could be a brilliant coach. Similarly when Tarks was our VFL coach.. his half time speeches were limp and uninspiring, and it was no surprise when he was given the flick on favour of Tapping.. so how did he keep his job?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Pert? Burns?

Burns? yes, fair 'nuff
Pert? I dunno, I always considered him more of a Fitzroy person.

It's not so much about the numbres, but the positions they occupy. No one would give a shit if a former Collingwood player was head of the Collingwood merchandise shop, or working as a normal wage slave in the membership department.. but when they dominate crucial aspects of the football department questions need to be asked.

We have Pert and Eddie as heads of the club pretty much, ex player and major fan-boy

C'mon, you've got no chance of becoming President of a footy club unless you are a major fan boi.

Name a President who is not?

And we have Bucks Burnsy Rocca and Tarks as the "boys club" who fill up the majority of our coaching spots.

4 out of 10.

Are all these guys really the best possible candidates? Or were they given the job because they use to play for the club?

Burnsy is different to the others because he's at least got outside experience.

Every time Rocca speaks I cringe a little and wonder how on earth he could be a brilliant coach. Similarly when Tarks was our VFL coach.. his half time speeches were limp and uninspiring, and it was no surprise when he was given the flick on favour of Tapping.. so how did he keep his job?

Maybe they found a role for him that made use of his strengths and avoided his weaknesses?

 

[doodles98]

Burns? yes, fair 'nuff

We have Pert and Eddie as heads of the club pretty much, ex player and major fan-boy

C'mon, you've got no chance of becoming President of a footy club unless you are a major fan boi.

Name a President who is not?


Tony Shepherd, GWS

 

[Kappa]

Burns? yes, fair 'nuff
Pert? I dunno, I always considered him more of a Fitzroy person.

It's not so much about the numbres, but the positions they occupy. No one would give a shit if a former Collingwood player was head of the Collingwood merchandise shop, or working as a normal wage slave in the membership department.. but when they dominate crucial aspects of the football department questions need to be asked.

We have Pert and Eddie as heads of the club pretty much, ex player and major fan-boy

C'mon, you've got no chance of becoming President of a footy club unless you are a major fan boi.

Name a President who is not?



4 out of 10.



Burnsy is different to the others because he's at least got outside experience.



Maybe they found a role for him that made use of his strengths and avoided his weaknesses?

At the end of the day it's a simple question 76

Do you believe Tarks Rocca and Bucks are the best possible people for their roles we can get?

 

[THATSGOLD]

We are in massive massive trouble for a while.

 

[jathanas]

We're jumping the shark. 4 shyte games of footy and we're calling for the president's head.

Yeah there's an issue with the on-field performance of the club. Not sure I want to sack everyone just yet.

 

[Kappa]

We're jumping the shark. 4 shyte games of footy and we're calling for the president's head.

Yeah there's an issue with the on-field performance of the club. Not sure I want to sack everyone just yet.

Since the bye last year we are about 3 wins and 15 losses

 

[Markfs]

i was watching some nba today to avoid doing something that I had to do..... san antonio was playing.... and the commentators were talking about the coach and i looked him up on wiki and he almost made it to the olympics 30 years ago when the USA used to send amateur teams....and then he got a job coaching army teams..... and then he took over as general manager of the san antonio and then he sacked the coach and took over....

my point is that he never even got close to playing nba... it makes ya wonder how many people cant play but can coach

 

[Lord Wilberforce]

We're jumping the shark. 4 shyte games of footy and we're calling for the president's head.

Yeah there's an issue with the on-field performance of the club. Not sure I want to sack everyone just yet.

It's more than just 4 bad games. It goes back a few years. Anyway, change is required, but not all at once.

 

[76woodenspooners]

At the end of the day it's a simple question 76

Do you believe Tarks Rocca and Bucks are the best possible people for their roles we can get?

On Tarks and Rocca (or any other assistant) ...

... I don't know. I don't have any data points on them. And even if I did, I'm not qualified to assess what their particular influence is on team results.

On Buckley, I have a lot more data points. I can exercise some critical judgement ("Last week Bucks said 'this', the next week he said 'that', do they compute?). As for whether Bucks the best possible person for the role when he was appointed back in 2009? I don't know, no idea. Yeah, he was a rookie unproven coach - but so was Chris Scott and John Longmire.

Let me put it this way: If in 2009 everybody was given a test "Order the following names from most to least destined-to-be successful coach: Buckley@Collingwood, Hird@Essendon, Voss@Brisbane, Longmire@Sydney, C.Scott@Geelong" ... How many people would have gotten that right? Today it's a no-brainer. And it's easy to argue with the benefit of hindsight what you would have answered (Never did like Hames Hird's' hair). But realistically, the only folks with any chance of getting it right would have been those with NFI who just randomly pick names.

 

[Horaceg]

We are in massive massive trouble for a while.

We don't look up to it, if we lose to Essendon I'm adding one more massive. This weekend we will turn it around, season begins again.

 

[jmac70]

We are in massive massive trouble for a while.

Don't agree with that. Things could turn around very quickly next season with a new coach in charge. Collingwood will be seen as a great team to take over in terms of list development. Off field we are fine, even if there was a change of president, we have a strong board.

 

[jmac70]

It's more than just 4 bad games. It goes back a few years. Anyway, change is required, but not all at once.

Agree. If Bucks goes I think/hope that Ed will put a succession plan in place for his position over an agreed period of time (2 years max). We don't need any more blood spilt than necessary.

Pert can probably be replaced immediately without any bother at all.

 

[Vicky Park]

I look forward to the day when Maxy returns to the club. I dont know in what capacity, but not as a coach. He's on record as saying he's not interested in coaching, and we wouldn't want him chewed up and spat out, which is the coaches' destiny.

Its too soon, and he needs a longish period away from the club in order to continue to develop and gain some separation from the current regime. He could even be the instigator of a new regime. With his smarts, integrity, leadership, it wouldn't be a typical jobs for the boys appointment. We miss him badly.

Then again, maybe I have him on a pedestal, as the next saviour of our club.

 

[Ant85]

Is our borderline incestuous mindset of having a CEO/President/Coach all the way down to the boot studder be a former player, the staunchest of Pies supporters or at least live in the suburb of Collingwood part of what is wrong with our club!?

It's extremely hard to see the bigger picture or even be rational in difficult times especially for fans but surely there must be times where passion for the guernsey is a detriment to progression or decision making at a high level within our organisation.

Is it time for a clean out?
Fresh set of eyes and ideas that doesn't have black and white running through their veins!?

Our last 2 premiership coaches were from other clubs with no connection to us.

Discuss.

Completely agree that we need a clean out.

I don't necessarily agree that we have a "Collingwood people" only approach. If you recall, Eddie came in to change that mindset to begin with.

We went with Tony Shaw in the 1990s, Eddie steamrolled in, and plucked an outsider called Mick Malthouse.

The issue is not, perhaps, that Eddie has preferred "Collingwood people" but rather "his people". He's good mates with Bucks and Pert. That his friendship has blindsided his ability to assess the professional requirements of our club may eventually be his own undoing.

But aside from that, Eddie/Bucks are two personalities that have dominated our club for nearly two decades. Just as the Shaws dominated for two decades, and the Roses dominated for decades, there comes a time when it has to end and the baton passed on. I think we've reached that point. It's been great, there have been successes and failures, but Collingwood needs new faces, new ideas, and new energy.

At the height of Eddie's reign we were the envy of the football world. We were the top club for innovation, development and sports science.

We're no longer any of the above, other clubs have caught up and are now ahead.

Pert's management of the club has been great in terms of revenue, but horrible in terms of community and supporter relations. The club sees its members and supporters as cash cows, not as a community, which it had been for over a century. There has been little investment into the supporter base, and the club has become detached from its loyal fans.

And Bucks - well there's enough threads that have examined why he should no longer be coach.

Ed/Pert/Bucks, it's time to go.

 

[MLG23]

Ed made a promise to Buckley when he was at Brisbane that if he comes to the pies he promises he will lift the cup as a premiership player. that time has come and gone but the promise remains. now Ed has given bucks the reins as head coach via a fast tracked apprenticeship and allowed him to have the players he wants and all the support staff have been hand picked by Bucks. now while i love how Ed has tried to keep his word it has been to the detriment of OUR club. it was worth giving bucks a go but like the rest of his fellow Brownlow medal mates (Voss and Hird) it hasnt worked. All of them where rushed through their apprenticeships and that turned out to be a complete failure for the other two and it simply hasnt worked for us. i love Bucks and always will but if we dont play finals this year he needs to be moved on. get someone in who is the best candidate for the job that has served a long apprenticeship and who hopefully has senior experience. who that is i dont know. but what i do know is that Bucks should never have got Robert Harvey on his coaching team. he would have to be the most boring bas*&%# ever plus the c*&^ is cursed. he was never destined to win a flag and sadly maybe bucks is too.

 

[Dogs_Playing_Poker]

I look forward to the day when Maxy returns to the club. I dont know in what capacity, but not as a coach. He's on record as saying he's not interested in coaching, and we wouldn't want him chewed up and spat out, which is the coaches' destiny.

Its too soon, and he needs a longish period away from the club in order to continue to develop and gain some separation from the current regime. He could even be the instigator of a new regime. With his smarts, integrity, leadership, it wouldn't be a typical jobs for the boys appointment. We miss him badly.

Then again, maybe I have him on a pedestal, as the next saviour of our club.

Well said! Kills me listening to Maxy referring to GWS as "us"!

 

[jathanas]

It's more than just 4 bad games. It goes back a few years. Anyway, change is required, but not all at once.

Agreed. The way change is implemented in any situation is critical in terms of success. Some here seem to be willing to throw the baby out with the bath water because we're losing games of football. I can see that we're in a pickle, but it's not the first time in the club's history, nor is it impossible to turn this around.

I hope we do recover from this, just to see how the posters that are calling for heads now stand in the face of adversity.