Is this Richmond side as good as Geelong 07-11?

Is this Richmond side as good as the Geelong 07-11

  • Yes

  • No

  • Possibly

  • They're better than Hawthorn 2013-15

  • They're not as good as Hawthorn 2013-15


Results are only viewable after voting.

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HardcoreGeelongFan

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Let's end this argument once and for all. Are Richmond now as good as Geelong 2007-2011? And have they gone past Hawthorn?

It's actually possible to say they have gone past Geelong when you consider Stephen Danks possible involvement at the club. So for all those who do believe Dank had an influence at Geelong be sure to factor that into your vote.
 

Grockadoc

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It's exactly choosing between talent and hard work.

In terms of talent, no. Geelong 2007-11 had so much talent on every line and most of them bar a few would have been in the top 5-6 in their respective positions in the league. They were so skilled and tore every side apart. Johnson, Chapman, Gaz, Selwood, Bartel, Ottens, Enright, Stokes, Corey, Mackie, Wojcinksi, Kelly, Milburn etc.

We don't have the luxury of having that. We have some highly skilled players like Jack, Lynch, Cotchin, Martin, Prestia, Edwards, Rioli etc, but they are offset by players who don't have as much skill, but make up for it with hard work, hunger, determination etc such as Graham, Lambert, Castagna, Broad, Astbury.

I think Geelong 2007-11 were one of the best teams I have ever seen (which pains me to say it), and they won 3 flags in 5 years. They are still ahead for now. If we can jag another flag in the next couple of years, I would almost have to say we are on par, or better than the Cats given the upper echelon of talent you guys had compared to us.

So for now, No. Geelong is still a better side. But I feel the gap is getting smaller and smaller. Especially with the competition getting so much more even.
 

Lsta062

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Geelong destroyed the competition in 2007-2011. Richmond are dominant, but they were definitely not as dominant as Geelong were.

Just look at the win-loss record and percentage at the end of the home and away season and you’ll see where Geelong were at.

The thread would turn interesting if Richmond goes back-to-back this year though. Geelong won 3 Premierships in 5 years whereas Richmond would’ve won 3 Premierships in 4 years.
 

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Grockadoc

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Geelong destroyed the competition in 2007-2011. Richmond are dominant, but they were definitely not as dominant as Geelong were.

Just look at the win-loss record and percentage at the end of the home and away season and you’ll see where Geelong were at.

The thread would turn interesting if Richmond goes back-to-back this year though. Geelong won 3 Premierships in 5 years whereas Richmond would’ve won 3 Premierships in 4 years.
Geelong also never went back to back.
 

juss

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Let's end this argument once and for all. Are Richmond now as good as Geelong 2007-2011? And have they gone past Hawthorn?

It's actually possible to say they have gone past Geelong when you consider Stephen Danks possible involvement at the club. So for all those who do believe Dank had an influence at Geelong be sure to factor that into your vote.
No not yet. But why post this now instead of waiting another season or two to see what if anything the Tigers achieve then? That would probably answer the question. As of right now, they aren't as good.

And the 07 Cats side is one of the best individual teams I've seen. In fact they'd be dirty they didn't win 08 to put it beyond rest because they were damn good then too.
 

Elite Master

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Both Geelong and Hawthorn eras by a very wide margin. Geelong just dominated everyone they played, and the Hawks won 3 in a row. Richmond haven't even achieved back to back, and there home and away record pales greatly.
 

juss

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Both Geelong and Hawthorn eras by a very wide margin. Geelong just dominated everyone they played, and the Hawks won 3 in a row. Richmond haven't even achieved back to back, and there home and away record pales greatly.
As i raised earlier, pointless to post this now as Richmond being the reigning premiers their era isnt "over" yet. They might not win any more, but they have the chance to and so we should probably wait til end of 2021 to see what eventuates.
 

4THAWN

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If you were looking at each individual player i.e. cyril rioli vs jason castagna, etc etc. then this richmond side wouldn't even be in the question with Geelong/Hawthorn, but as a whole team they do play in a dominant fashion and if they win another flag are definitely in the convo.

Probably less talented than Geelong/Hawthorn sides but a very good team nonetheless.
 

La Dispute

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Geelong by a huge margin. One of the best teams I’ve ever seen, containing some of the best players of all time: Ablett, Scarlett, Enright, Bartel etc.

They also dominated an era with a number of strong teams: Hawthorn, St Kilda, Collingwood and the Bulldogs. Richmond are dominating in an era where there aren’t any very strong teams to rival them. Both of their Grand Finals victories came against sides that were comfortably weaker than them, and at their home ground. Adelaide haven’t made the finals since, to show their overall quality.

Not even at a contest.
 

juss

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If you were looking at each individual player i.e. cyril rioli vs jason castagna, etc etc. then this richmond side wouldn't even be in the question with Geelong/Hawthorn, but as a whole team they do play in a dominant fashion and if they win another flag are definitely in the convo.

Probably less talented than Geelong/Hawthorn sides but a very good team nonetheless.
Id agree theoretically. But thats why sides arent rated on paper, and we use performance as the metric. Hence I reckon its stupid to include the Tigers at this point because the obvious answer is they are currently behind.

If people want to compare them to Cats/Hawks era then logically they need to be given the same time period, i.e can they win another 1 or 2 flags by the end of 2021? Probably not, but you have to give them the chance to be in the conversation by waiting it out. Any idiot could tell you they are behind at the moment.
 

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KissKiss

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If you were looking at each individual player i.e. cyril rioli vs jason castagna, etc etc. then this richmond side wouldn't even be in the question with Geelong/Hawthorn, but as a whole team they do play in a dominant fashion and if they win another flag are definitely in the convo.

Probably less talented than Geelong/Hawthorn sides but a very good team nonetheless.
I remember just back after the Hawks 3peat when all of the comparisons between the Lions, Hawks and Cats were going on, there was a lot of similar arguments. Lot of people were saying the Lions players were better individually but the Hawks were the "champion team". Looking back at the end of the careers though a lot of the Hawks players were about as good.

Will be interesting to see, if the Tigers win another, how we view them at the end of their careers. Maybe they will stack up as individual players and be equal to the last 3 big dynasties. Still have to win at least one more to be looked at the same level though
 

The Dice Man

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Punt rd oval is on the same block as the MCG, in terms of travel distance they are the same thing. These clubs also receive a default home Grand Final every year
And KP gives you an almost infallible advantage. Jesus says these arguments are cyclical.

Most teams have home ground advantages in different ways, but Geelong probably have the greatest H&A advantage through the season.

The teams with the least advantage share the MCG and Docklands. I shouldn't have to point out why, but it's shared by so many.

BTW, do you think the GF should be at KP if Geelong make a GF?
 

Captain chaos

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Geelong by a huge margin. One of the best teams I’ve ever seen, containing some of the best players of all time: Ablett, Scarlett, Enright, Bartel etc.

They also dominated an era with a number of strong teams: Hawthorn, St Kilda, Collingwood and the Bulldogs. Richmond are dominating in an era where there aren’t any very strong teams to rival them. Both of their Grand Finals victories came against sides that were comfortably weaker than them, and at their home ground. Adelaide haven’t made the finals since, to show their overall quality.

Not even at a contest.
Or you could compare shoenmakers to lynch?
 

Back One Out

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This Richmond team is well capable of winning another flag either this year, or next year. Who is going to stop them?

GWS would be my pick as potentially their toughest challenger over the next couple of years. They've got the cattle, but they've yet to take the next step and become a consistently dominant team

Who else is there? The Pies and Eagles are pretty good. Not great. The Tigers have them covered, I think...
The Western Bulldogs look to be a team on the rise, but they still have a ways to go. Same with the Brisbane Lions.

I don’t rate Geelong as flag contenders. Too reliant on Danger and Hawkins. Just about everything went their way last year and they couldn’t get it done. They’re not on Richmond’s level. Nor Hawthorn, Essendon, Port or anyone else. There’s a lot of average, mediocre teams, but not many good ones.

Bloody hell... The more I weigh up the opposition, the more I think a Richmond 3peat isn’t out of the question. They are well ahead of everyone else. That will give the Tigers 4 flags in 5 years.

But these discussions are nothing but bullshit anyway. Geelong fans are obsessed with comparing their great era to Hawthorn’s. It’s meaningless drivel and driven by butt.hurt insecurity. Who f**kin’ cares about Geelong 2007-2011 or Hawthorn 2011-2015?

Hopefully the Tigers do win 4 from 5 and shut everyone else up. Hopefully they go undefeated and beat GWS in this year’s Grand Final by 130 points and then we can all agree they’re the best team of all time and we'll never have these pointless discussions ever again.
 
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juss

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This Richmond team is well capable of winning another flag either this year, or next year.

Who is going to stop them?

GWS would be my pick as potentially their toughest challenger over the next couple of years

Who else is there?

The Pies and Eagles are pretty good. Not great.

The Western Bulldogs look to be a team on the rise, but they still have a ways to go.

Same with the Brisbane Lions.

I don’t rate Geelong as flag contenders. Too reliant on Danger and Hawkins. Just about everything went their way last year and they couldn’t get it done. They’re not on Richmond’s level.

Nor Hawthorn, Essendon, Port or anyone else. There’s a lot of average, mediocre teams, but not many good ones.

Bloody hell... The more I weigh up the opposition, the more I think a Richmond 3peat isn’t out of the question. They are well ahead of everyone else. That will give the Tigers 4 flags in 5 years.

But these discussions are nothing but bullshit anyway. Geelong fans are obsessed with comparing their great era to Hawthorn’s. It’s meaningless drivel and driven by butt.hurt insecurity. Who f**kin’ cares?

Hopefully the Tigers do win 4 from 5 and shut everyone else up. Hopefully they go undefeated and beat GWS in this year’s Grand Final by 130 points and then we can say they’re the best team of all time and never have these silly discussions ever again.
Teams only need to better for one game, any decent team could knock us off in September, assuming we get there.
 

Back One Out

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Teams only need to better for one game, any decent team could knock us off in September, assuming we get there.
Yeah, of course. But that applies to every team.

GWS might win 19 games and finish on top of the ladder. But it won't matter much if they meet Richmond again at the MCG on the 26th September and get knocked off by a better team on the day.

Normally going into any season, there are 5 or 6 realistic flag contenders. Not this year.

There's Richmond way out in front (paying $4.00)

A gap to West Coast ($6.50) and Collingwood ($7.00), both of whom are overrated. I wouldn't be surprised to see either team slip a notch or two.

Next is GWS, who I think are the main danger, on the 4th line of betting ($9.00) Their odds will probably tighten as the year progresses and the wins pile up and people realise Kelly, Greene, Coniglio, Whitfield, Williams, Ward, Hopper and Taranto are the best bunch of players in the comp.

And that's it, really... Every other team's flag odds in double figures...

Cats and Lions (both $10.00) and the Bulldogs ($13.00). They'll probably make the top 8, but I don't think any of them will beat Richmond this September.

It's only March and for Richmond to get knocked off this year, I'm basically pinning all my hopes on the Giants reversing an 89 point GF demolition :oops:

Richmond eeeeeasy. The flag is in the bag. ;)
 

juss

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Yeah, of course. But that applies to every team.

GWS might win 19 games and finish on top of the ladder. But it won't matter much if they meet Richmond again at the MCG on the 26th September and get knocked off by a better team on the day.

Normally going into any season, there are 5 or 6 realistic flag contenders. Not this year.

There's Richmond way out in front (paying $4.00)

A gap to West Coast ($6.50) and Collingwood ($7.00), both of whom are overrated. I wouldn't be surprised to see either team slip a notch or two.

Next is GWS, who I think are the main danger, on the 4th line of betting ($9.00) Their odds will probably tighten as the year progresses and the wins pile up and people realise Kelly, Greene, Coniglio, Whitfield, Williams, Ward, Hopper and Taranto are the best bunch of players in the comp.

And that's it, really... Every other team's flag odds in double figures...

Cats and Lions (both $10.00) and the Bulldogs ($13.00). They'll probably make the top 8, but I don't think any of them will beat Richmond this September.

It's only March and for Richmond to get knocked off this year, I'm basically pinning all my hopes on the Giants reversing an 89 point GF demolition :oops:

Richmond eeeeeasy. The flag is in the bag. ;)
I have Eagles as the favourite personally. Im expecting a big bounce back from the Giants too. With Rance now retired we are 1 injury to a KPD away from being very vulnerable with our tall backs.

I have us as one of the few favourites but don't share the view we are miles in front.
 

Back One Out

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I have Eagles as the favourite personally. Im expecting a big bounce back from the Giants too. With Rance now retired we are 1 injury to a KPD away from being very vulnerable with our tall backs.

I have us as one of the few favourites but don't share the view we are miles in front.
The Tigers ended up winning the flag easily last year

A 12 game winning streak to close the deal

Finals victories by 47 pts (at the Gabba), 19 pts (coming back from 21 pts down) and 89 points.

The only time anyone got close to beating Richmond after the bye was the Eagles in Round 22. They jumped you blokes with a 7 goal first quarter. Willie Rioli and Liam Ryan were on fire. I was there at the MCG. I reckon it was an anomaly. They briefly got hot and surprised the Tiges with a few quick goals in time on. But Richmond took care of business and outscored West Coast 10.9 to 6.3 after 1/4 time. From memory, out-of-form Jack Riewoldt had a stinker that day and Dylan Grimes rolled an ankle (so you defended without Grimes and Rance for a large portion of the match.)

You won't have to worry about Willie Rioli this year. He's a bigger loss than many people realise. Josh Kennedy also looked to me like he was nearing the end of his career. Not the force he once was. Kelly is a great pickup and a fit Naitainui will be a huge bonus. But other than that, it's the same players who have carried them for the past 5 years. They're getting pretty old as a team. Yeo, Sheed and Barrass are younger players who have given them a lift in recent years, but I can't see where else the improvement will come from. I think the Eagles have peaked from 2018-2019 and they're edging closer to a slide down the ladder than winning another flag

Richmond have a far better balanced list than West Coast with very few players on the wrong side of 30: just Houli, Edwards and Riewoldt.
The vast majority of Richmond players are either in the peak of their career or nearing their peak.

Richmond are deserved flag favourites. I reckon their odds will shorten considerably by Round 10 when people realise GWS are the only other challenger.
 
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juss

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The Tigers ended up winning the flag easily last year

A 12 game winning streak to close the deal

Finals victories by 47 pts (at the Gabba), 19 pts (coming back from 21 pts down) and 89 points.

The only time anyone got close to beating Richmond after the bye was the Eagles in Round 22. They jumped you blokes with a 7 goal first quarter. Willie Rioli and Liam Ryan were on fire. I was there at the MCG. I reckon it was an anomaly. They briefly got hot and surprised the Tiges with a few quick goals in time on. But Richmond took care of business and outscored West Coast 10.9 to 6.3 after 1/4 time. From memory, out-of-form Jack Riewoldt had a stinker that day and Dylan Grimes rolled an ankle (so you defended without Grimes and Rance for a large portion of the match.)

You won't have to worry about Willie Rioli this year. He's a bigger loss than many people realise. Josh Kennedy also looked to me like he was nearing the end of his career. Not the force he once was. Kelly is a great pickup and a fit Naitainui will be a huge bonus. But other than that, it's the same players who have carried them for the past 5 years. They're getting pretty old as a team. Yeo, Sheed and Barrass are younger players who have given them a lift in recent years, but I can't see where else the improvement will come from. I think the Eagles have peaked from 2018-2019 and they're edging closer to a slide down the ladder than winning another flag

Richmond have a far better balanced list than West Coast with very few players on the wrong side of 30: just Houli, Edwards and Riewoldt.
The vast majority of Richmond players are either in the peak of their career or nearing their peak.

Richmond are deserved flag favourites. I reckon their odds will shorten considerably by Round 10 when people realise GWS are the only other challenger.
I don't know, we certainly are one of the favourites and I can see why many might have us in the number 1 spot right now.

A lot can change in an off season though (see 2016 > 2017 from the Tiges as the biggest example). Im not taking anything for granted, when we were 3 games clear at the top and hasn't lost at the MCG in 20+ games record heading into September in 2018 it looked like the flag was ours. One bad game and we were out. Finals are a brutal challenge regardless of the previous 22 weeks.
 

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