Opinion Is this rock bottom?

[blackshadow]

Dream on. The cheques in the mail. Get a reality check. The club is going down the gurgler. If David Noble keeps his job tomorrow after the s**t show that he and the North Melbourne board have produced you must have rocks in your head.

He's kept his job turbo.

Now what?

 

[Roogal]

This would want to be rock bottom. A club like ours can't sustain another decade of rot.

It's a miracle that we have survived this long since 2007. It's not for want of trying by members, past CEOs, past President, and committed players who hung on much longer than normal. It's been a long journey to justify staying in Melbourne, wipe out debt, to have Arden Street re-built, and to stay at least competitive on the field at least up to 2015. But since mid 2016 we have seen a steady decline in on-field performance to where we sit today. Of course there's no doubt much going on behind the scenes that we the hoi-polloi are not and will never will be privy to. We were promised several years ago that wiping out the debt would enable the club to invest more towards its football and coaching department, something that the club was never able to do in the past.

I hate to think that after 15 years of struggle after struggle, that this is where we sit today. We have many human issues now to confront, the material issues such as debt, location of the club and new facilities have been addressed. We now definitely need to focus upon the people within the club and where they are not performing.

 

[Roogal]

Followed north since the 60s. Seen the Aylettes, Teasdales, Laurie Dwyer's, the magnificent 70's under Barassi. The 90s under Pagan. But right now, is the club being set up for a fall. No good, get out of town, maybe we should relocate you, get a bit of help from us, the AFL, who knows. From what I am watching at the moment there might be a hidden agenda from somewhere

Well nobody told Richmond to get out of town when they experienced a 36 year Premiership drought and 15 years of being in the football wilderness in the 90's and 2000s. Nobody ever suggested that Carlton should relocate despite not being able to win a raffle between 2000 to 2020. Certainly nobody suggested the relocation of Hawthorn when they were consistently losing throughout the 2000s. Essendon haven't made a final for 16 years, perhaps they should be banished, at least we made the preliminary final in 2015.

 

[Roogal]

As every week demonstrates, no this isn’t the bottom.

It can get worse, way way worse.

I disagree, we are consistently being beaten by 10 goals on average, so this perhaps is the bottom. Perhaps we may idle along here at this level for some time until something gives and hard decisions are made within the club. As I said in a previous post #327 (above), the physical and financial resources at the club are sound, it really now comes down to "people" issues. Clearly there are some people at the club who need to be either moved on or sorted out.

​

 

[Overitalready]

He's kept his job turbo.

Now what?

Obviously everything is going to plan. The club is where they want it to be. Enjoy the ride my friend

 

[Overitalready]

Well nobody told Richmond to get out of town when they experienced a 36 year Premiership drought and 15 years of being in the football wilderness in the 90's and 2000s. Nobody ever suggested that Carlton should relocate despite not being able to win a raffle between 2000 to 2020. Certainly nobody suggested the relocation of Hawthorn when they were consistently losing throughout the 2000s. Essendon haven't made a final for 16 years, perhaps they should be banished, at least we made the preliminary final in 2015.

Nobody minds losing if you are having a go. Our insipid football this season has been diabolical. The only side we have beaten was a WAFL side. We are not anywhere near competitive. Same as our VFL side. The club has to turn this around because people are not going to watch 10 goal losses every week. Remember this is professional sport now and not suburban football anymore.

 

[Mav]

anyone else hear about a North player racially vilifying someone? Was it an AFL player or VFL player?

That would be rock bottom.

 

[Roogal]

Remember this is professional sport now and not suburban football anymore.

Oh ... thanks for that.

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

If we keep Noble after another smashing to another shit team (on a ground we usually play higher than expectations) in Adelaide is rock bottom.

 

[zoomba23]

I've had a sift through AFL Tables to check the form of the teams considered the worst in history. This includes every team that's gone winless in a season, University, early St Kilda, Melbourne earlier this century, mid 90s Fitzroy, the expansion clubs and a few others. I'm yet to find a team that has had a streak of 40+ point losses as long as our current one. So yes, in a sense this is rock bottom. The silver lining, if that's even what you'd call it, is that our margins generally haven't been as bad as those other shit teams. Recently we seem to have found a consistent formline in which we score around 50 and the opponent a bit over 100. Far from ideal but at least we're not being completely blown out of the water. Some of the margins I've seen in other teams' seasons have made me shudder. It might sound like an excuse but I do think we're suffering from the evenness of the comp this year. Putting us, Essendon and West Coast aside, the other 15 teams would be considered at least half decent, and any of them can beat each other on any given day. Hopefully we see some improvement after the bye, because even a 5 goal loss would basically feel like a win at this point

 

[Spud11]

It's a miracle that we have survived this long since 2007. It's not for want of trying by members, past CEOs, past President, and committed players who hung on much longer than normal. It's been a long journey to justify staying in Melbourne, wipe out debt, to have Arden Street re-built, and to stay at least competitive on the field at least up to 2015. But since mid 2016 we have seen a steady decline in on-field performance to where we sit today. Of course there's no doubt much going on behind the scenes that we the hoi-polloi are not and will never will be privy to. We were promised several years ago that wiping out the debt would enable the club to invest more towards its football and coaching department, something that the club was never able to do in the past.

I hate to think that after 15 years of struggle after struggle, that this is where we sit today. We have many human issues now to confront, the material issues such as debt, location of the club and new facilities have been addressed. We now definitely need to focus upon the people within the club and where they are not performing.

Fantastic post.

 

[koshari]

If we keep Noble after another smashing to another s**t team (on a ground we usually play higher than expectations) in Adelaide is rock bottom.

realistically they are far better on paper atm, might change in a few years,

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

realistically they are far better on paper atm, might change in a few years,

Yet at end of last year they were favourites for the wooden spoon this year as seen to be awful?

I actually don't think their list is that much better than ours, they are just far more organised and have something resembling a "gameplan" that you know, even tries to score?

 

[koshari]

Yet at end of last year they were favourites for the wooden spoon this year as seen to be awful?

I actually don't think their list is that much better than ours, they are just far more organised and have something resembling a "gameplan" that you know, even tries to score?

yeah and * were tipped to win the flag, sometimes reality and perception differ. Adelaides list is better than ours atm, fact.

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

yeah and * were tipped to win the flag, sometimes reality and perception differ. Adelaides list is better than ours atm, fact.

I didn't say it wasn't better (in hindsight, especially with our key injuries - they've had a few too).

But how they are performing this year compared to how we are, is vastly more extreme than the quality of the respective lists IMHO.

 

[koshari]

I didn't say it wasn't better (in hindsight, especially with our key injuries - they've had a few too).

But how they are performing this year compared to how we are, is vastly more extreme than the quality of the respective lists IMHO.

regardless they will go in favorites and rightly so,

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

regardless they will go in favorites and rightly so,

Of course they will? I didn't say they shouldn't!!

We could be playing Old Scholars Division 2 and they'd also go in favourites at the moment.

 

[lockheed]

Love seeing everyone's takes on this, and god I hope this is Rock Bottom.

In my opinion, Leadership is the problem and it’s the result of many events.

The team is obviously struggling in the leadership stake and this is leading to the mini bust-ups, the frustration and the lack of authentic buy-in to the game plan.

Last year much of the momentum and excitement came from the buy-in of Phillips, Lazarro, Powell & Ford to our game plan and where we were headed – they re-singed early and really built some momentum.

Furthermore, they were given opportunities to play and this in turn gave us hope of where we were headed.

That hope accelerated when Cunnington & Dumont returned to the side through the year and we watched the emergence of Simpkin as a leader and observed improvement from LDU, Thomas, McKay and Zurhaar and Larkey improved as the year went on and our form improved.

For all we know we could have potentially the same level of excitement form this year’s draftees however it does seem that Bergman, Goater & Curtis were perhaps shielded a little more from the spotlight than last year’s draftees.

This makes me curious, as they had actually played footy for the 12 months leading into getting drafted as opposed to last year’s crop with the exception of Powell.

When reflecting, the decision to move on Dumont and Atley at this particular point in their careers – professional athletes, good characters and role models, particularly Dumont with his connections off the field, may have been ill advised.

The love affair with Turner has been one that seems to have been passed down since his first year at the club – he is someone who punches well above is weight and that leadership and the example he sets to standards off the field is probably why he continues to play.

It’s stunning how much more value Atley or Dumont might add to this group if they could replicate those off field standards through their value on field through this rebuild.

But clearly the intention was to give some of our younger players more responsibility.

This has been seriously affected by the lack of influence Will Phillips has been able to have over the group. One player can make an enormous difference in a club seemingly bereft of leadership from the top down.

HE was recruited with future leadership in mind and his glandular fever could have had a far bigger impact on the group than anyone could imagine.

His energy around the group and maturity is exactly what is missing with that younger group right now – a calm head amongst growing frustration, along with his clean contested work and fans being able to get excited about what he might provide is a huge hole in where we are at.

Sporadic availability of Anderson, Hall, McKay & obviously Cunnington have an enormous impact on the group. Even the injury to Polec, who can at last play on a wing and provide some offensive run, have severely depleted our depth and left us with little to no selection pressure.

The fact Jackson Archer has been an emergency on five occasions, something reserved to reward young players with standout performances in the VFL, with the way he has performed is testimony to the lack of depth.

The change in the S&C dept could be the reason for the increase in injuries at the club and this is something that really needs to be looked at.

Is it because there has been a significant shift in a regime that has been the same for years, is this part of the process of adjustment, because if it is then that is explainable as to where it is at.

But there are a huge number of events that have conspired to have us where we are right now and the lack of significant player leadership is the first aspect.

The perceived lack of transparency of standards until now – there are countless reports of our 19-22 year olds missing basic training standards – logging weight sessions, recording extras, providing basic data for the S&C team has been pretty discouraging.

With Phillips not there and able to drive standards, Lazarro’s form dipping, Ford’s injury and Powell’s questionable use within the team as a result of Noble’s selection policy mean that group can’t take over and begin driving new standards.

The older group seem to have a disconnect with the Thomas’s, Horne-Francis’s of the world and the mid-tier is where this leadership needs to come from – but there isn’t exactly a high volume of those either. The good players from each draft are unicorns and don’t have their fellow draftees at the same level.

Simpkin, Larkey & Zurhaar, particularly the former two, really do seem to be trying to take some responsibility for the future direction which is great. Unfortunately their roles in the team are almost overwhelming given the roles they are being asked to play. The lack of support for SImpkin & Larkey has been a by product of the injury list and perhaps the lack of finding one KPP player to assist – WTF was Tom Lynch for as he would have been the perfect foil. Still have not heard on explanation on that. Comben & Ford injuries not helping their either though.

LDU only has XErri for company in the senior side and his position in the side has been contentious, Thomas, Taylor, Scott are all at similar games played but none of them seem to scream leadership, Comben, Mahony & Perez are all still trying to find their feet which should not be surprising given Perez and Comben were both taken knowing they had injury issues that required some recovery.

So until last year’s batch, the ability to truly lead has been lacking and I really felt Phillip’s cohort could help with that and that was a huge reason Phillips was chosen.

Unfortunately, it appears there are not too many leaders among the guys selected last year either – JHF is a kid nursing ridiculous expectations and media scrutiny that is completely unwarranted.

He also has made some serious errors that you would not imagine any of last year’s draftees would make from a buy-in perspective. That’s not to say he won’t learn and become a leader, but right now his behaviour is not going any way to driving standards around the place.

Goater, Curtis & Bergman are being handled with kid gloves, so form a recruiting perspective it’s inherent that some leadership to drive standards is the #1 focus – forget position.

These under the radar types we continue to take are generally not rated – that means their mindset is not necessarily elite, not necessarily top of class and we need leadership desperately.

That’s why Roos leaving his post and having his Consultancy company running the Leadership program without him here is a massive fail.

Having Ziebell who can’t play next year, Goldy who has never been a leader and communicator and Sugar as the veterans leading the way was always fraught with danger without the right program in place.

Football life is all above the ears. It’s about preparation, beliefs, and authentic culture that drives standards and behaviours that are better than any other clubs.

Phillips started a handball club at the start of the year the Josh Walker refused to engage in – if anyone could do with some improvement in that space it would be him.

These are the positive signs that we have some leaders there that need to be harnessed and the biggest fail has clearly been the disconnect in creating standards.

That is on the coaching group and these “Leadership Consultants”. That’s where the first change needs to happen and needs to happen quickly.

Noble is not the answer one wouldn’t think, but a quick shift in Leadership standards and buy-in to those is where this starts.

And that starts with the players driving it, the players being empowered and feeling like they belong.

Selection, the game plan, the hope needs to be driven by the coaches. This rebuild talk, this crap about knowing where we are at, about referencing god-awful sides as the markers for our rebuild is rubbish.

Create your own rebuild, your own history. Look at Collingwood, Hawthorn, they aren’t using the most abominable sides in recent memory as their marker.

They are empowering kids to come in, stand up on the big stage and make their own mark. But that’s because they are not walking past standards that are not good enough. They call one another out with respect and do something about it.

The CEO has a lot to answer for here too – as does Sonja.

It’s not acceptable to keep referencing the worst of the worst. Make your own case, build your own story about how this is going to be and have the players drive it. This comes from the football department and the Board.

The Roos thing has been a disaster ever since he left to go to Hawaii. The club was pinning so much on his knowledge of a rebuild, on his experience.

Using his offsiders to drive this is not working and was never going to work.

People forget Peter Jackson drove that change at Melbourne, got Roos to the club, put the support around him.

Could you imagine Peter Jackson spitting out the vitriol that has come from Amarfio’s mouth about being exactly where we want to be sitting 1 win 11 losses and 52%?

There is a Leadership vacuum and when that is addressed, and it could be addressed quite quickly, then the club can turn this around.

But it will take some brave decisions from the Board that may need to be timed accordingly.

The first is to change the Leadership program within ASAP, the second is to find the BEST CEO in the game, the next is to find the BEST available EXPERIENCED Coach because the club doesn’t have the talent within to support a McRae or a Longmuir right now.

Looks like we might have a Board candidate.

 

[bengrina]

Feel like the bye has been a really good circuit breaker for the club. Coupled with the positive news regarding Cunners I'm confident that we will be able to look back in time and see that the worst is past. This is also factoring in Nobles exit at some stage this year.

 

[The acurate one]

Yes , yes it is

 

[discodaddy]

Yes , yes it is

Not yet. Geelong and Collingwood await, and they won’t bring lube.

 

[My Left Foote]

Next Saturday night will be rock bottom but things will improve from there; on Sunday there will be an emergency board meeting followed by a press conference on Monday.

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

Every week I come to this thread and write it can’t much worse. Every week I am proven wrong.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Were Melbourne & Carlton ever this bad at their lowest of lows? I’m not sure they were!?
Maybe it’s just to close to home & it feels worse!! We are so devoid of any confidence whatsoever.
I can’t see us winning another game all year, which will mean we will have one win for the season, against a WAFL team, on our home deck - a game we could have quite easily lost.
We have been somewhat ok in maybe 2 games this year.
This is rock bottom!!
As someone here has said here before if we don’t get a PP then the AFL need to announce the PP is dead.
Noble needs to go ASAP. We need a circuit breaker!

 

[Waynesworld]

Twice in my life I have switched games off before the final siren.

And both have occurred this year.

So yes, rock bottom.