Opinion Is this where Carlton drops away?

Are Carlton going to drop away from here?

  • Yes

  • No


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jooce8891

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Don't tell me Dave Teaguey wouldn't have 12 wins with Curnow, Hewitt, Cerra, Lewie Young added to the playing group, another preseason into YOUNG GUNS like JSOS, a Paddy Cripp that's not injured for most of the year, and a board who aren't actively looking for his replacement for half the season.

Even if Carlton fall into finals (which is pretty likely), they've really sucked this second half of the year. Given the Saints fixture and injuries during the season, they've been the much more impressive side.
St kildas injury list 🤣🤣
 

Rich01

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Don't tell me Dave Teaguey wouldn't have 12 wins with Curnow, Hewitt, Cerra, Lewie Young added to the playing group, another preseason into YOUNG GUNS like JSOS, a Paddy Cripp that's not injured for most of the year, and a board who aren't actively looking for his replacement for half the season.

Even if Carlton fall into finals (which is pretty likely), they've really sucked this second half of the year. Given the Saints fixture and injuries during the season, they've been the much more impressive side.
Yep. On paper Voss has a significantly better side than Teague did.

But the decision to oust him was ultimately a case of the tail wagging the dog.

The ‘independent’ review and the new President needed to be seen to make change and with discontent amongst the playing group, it was an easy decision to tip Teague out.

It would have been interesting if they had have let Teague see out the remainder of his contract and they were in the same position this week, whether they would back him in (as they are doing with Voss), or would be balls deep in Clarkson negotiations. I am tipping the former, which suggests there was an element of Teague being the scapegoat for perennial underperformance, but in saying that, it’s good that they now back their coach in 100%.

Carltons performance this week and next week is why they appointed Voss and just win will give them faith they made the right call.

Two losses and missing the finals should not be the expectation for such a talented list that has taken 7 years to rebuild.

If he’s the coach Sayers believes he is, think the team will respond positively this weekend and surprise a few with their performance. It’s exactly the sort of back to the wall challenge Voss thrived upon as a player. Needs to be a strong contest from their group, regardless of the outcome.
 

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chunkylover53

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Yep. On paper Voss has a significantly better side than Teague did.

But the decision to oust him was ultimately a case of the tail wagging the dog.

The ‘independent’ review and the new President needed to be seen to make change and with discontent amongst the playing group, it was an easy decision to tip Teague out.

You cannot be serious.

Teague was a shocking coach, the only player that progressed under him was Walsh - but he would progress under no coach.

He won 8 games last year, only 1 of them was against a top 8 side (Essendon), the rest were shabby wins against lower opposition. We lost to WCE reserves, North, GC and to Port by 95 points in the last round. He spoke terribly, genuinely didn't believe in defending - "lets just score more than them", played favorites and heaps of other s**t.

I was actually of the opinion we should let him see out his contract, but after seeing how we've played for most of this year, vs. how we played for all of last year; it's clear he was just a s**t house head coach. Best of luck to him though, seems like a nice enough bloke.

PS, the only difference in the list is Hewett & Cerra - Teague also had Murphy, Betts, Casboult, Jones & Simpson for most of his tenure.
 

Chism

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Yep. On paper Voss has a significantly better side than Teague did.

But the decision to oust him was ultimately a case of the tail wagging the dog.

The ‘independent’ review and the new President needed to be seen to make change and with discontent amongst the playing group, it was an easy decision to tip Teague out.

It would have been interesting if they had have let Teague see out the remainder of his contract and they were in the same position this week, whether they would back him in (as they are doing with Voss), or would be balls deep in Clarkson negotiations. I am tipping the former, which suggests there was an element of Teague being the scapegoat for perennial underperformance, but in saying that, it’s good that they now back their coach in 100%.

Carltons performance this week and next week is why they appointed Voss and just win will give them faith they made the right call.

Two losses and missing the finals should not be the expectation for such a talented list that has taken 7 years to rebuild.

If he’s the coach Sayers believes he is, think the team will respond positively this weekend and surprise a few with their performance. It’s exactly the sort of back to the wall challenge Voss thrived upon as a player. Needs to be a strong contest from their group, regardless of the outcome.
So you must rate Teague.

Interesting to see how he is never mentioned ever regarding coaching vacancies…..

Big Footy poster seems to know better though I suppose. Your post is nothing more than a side kick at Carlton and Teague was probably the worst coach we have ever had and that is saying something in itself considering our last 2 decades of coaches.

Sack Hardwick and appoint him and see how you go! 🤣
 

Rich01

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PS, the only difference in the list is Hewett & Cerra - Teague also had Murphy, Betts, Casboult, Jones & Simpson for most of his tenure.
Hewett, Cerra, Young and Motlop are the additions to your best 22 vs last year from a lost perspective.

A fit Cripps has made a world of difference- most Carlton supporters acknowledge he was playing injured all of last year and is a completely different player this year.

A fit Curnow is also a major in for 22. Only played 4 games last year when his papers were stamped.

Some pretty impactful additions to the side when you look at it that way.

Probably the only impactful out from last year is Jones and Carlton fans seem very happy with Young replacing him, so they probably net out. Not sure we make a case for Murphy being impactful in season 21 when many Blues fans believe he was carried to his milestone game.

I will say Voss looks to have got another level out of a few players.

Kennedy has stepped up although to be fair his last 10 games in season 21 was where he made a big jump.

Young and Hewett have improved considerably from their former clubs. Cripps has got back to his supreme heights, although being injury free would have been a major factor.

Saad has taken a step up and should be close to AA this year.

On the flip side Walsh has probably regressed this year after his stellar 2021. Still getting the ball but not as impactful. Cerra while handy has probably not been as impactful as what he was at Freo last year. Harry has been good but probably taken a step back in output vs 21.

Voss has had more firepower at his disposal no doubt.
 

Rich01

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So you must rate Teague.

Interesting to see how he is never mentioned ever regarding coaching vacancies…..

Big Footy poster seems to know better though I suppose. Your post is nothing more than a side kick at Carlton and Teague was probably the worst coach we have ever had and that is saying something in itself considering our last 2 decades of coaches.

Sack Hardwick and appoint him and see how you go! 🤣
Where did I say that?
 

Chism

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Where did I say that?
Just your over all assessment of us tells us that. You are shitting on Voss and loving Teague.

Reading your comments translates to Teague could of gotten the same results this season as what Vossy has.

How else does one interpret your comments when you said his said his sacking was the tail wagging the dog. 😏
 

Rich01

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Just your over all assessment of us tells us that. You are shitting on Voss and loving Teague.

Reading your comments translates to Teague could of gotten the same results this season as what Vossy has.

How else does one interpret your comments?
Read my post again (1003). Particularly the last para. I expect a strong performance from Carlton this weekend based on the type of coach Voss is.

And yes, I do think that a fit Cripps and Curnow, along with the additions of Cerra and Hewett to the midfield, would have seen Teague get closer to the 12 wins that Voss has on the board than Teagues end result of 8 wins the season before.

They are mighty handy ins, why wouldn’t one expect to do better with those players added to the side?

Interested in where you disagree in my assessment of the individual players performance?
 

chunkylover53

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Hewett, Cerra, Young and Motlop are the additions to your best 22 vs last year from a lost perspective.

Hewett, Cerra are good additions. However Teague had a fit Ed Curnow who performed pretty similar to 1 of these 2.
Jones > Young
Betts > Motlop.

A fit Cripps has made a world of difference- most Carlton supporters acknowledge he was playing injured all of last year and is a completely different player this year.

Cripps' year has dropped off dramatically since about R9. I've said it several times but I suspect he's battling a similar issue to last year - seems to be stiff, lost acceleration and can't bend over or kick properly.

A fit Curnow is also a major in for 22. Only played 4 games last year when his papers were stamped.

A big boost, but Teague also had a healthy and in-form McKay - we haven't seen that at all this year really.

Some pretty impactful additions to the side when you look at it that way.

When you look at it the way you are, sure.

Probably the only impactful out from last year is Jones and Carlton fans seem very happy with Young replacing him, so they probably net out. Not sure we make a case for Murphy being impactful in season 21 when many Blues fans believe he was carried to his milestone game.

Nope, Jones in 2022 would've been far superior to Young. Are we happy with a 22yo Young for the next decade though? Yes.

I will say Voss looks to have got another level out of a few players.

Kennedy has stepped up although to be fair his last 10 games in season 21 was where he made a big jump.

Young and Hewett have improved considerably from their former clubs. Cripps has got back to his supreme heights, although being injury free would have been a major factor.

Saad has taken a step up and should be close to AA this year.

On the flip side Walsh has probably regressed this year after his stellar 2021. Still getting the ball but not as impactful. Cerra while handy has probably not been as impactful as what he was at Freo last year. Harry has been good but probably taken a step back in output vs 21.

Kennedy had 2.5 years under Teague and the result was being delisted then re-rookied.

Young & Hewett have improved from their former clubs, Teague sent players backwards on their form from their former clubs - Saad, Williams, McGovern. Note Voss has also gotten these players closer to their best.

Voss has had more firepower at his disposal no doubt.

A little bit, and has won 4 more games in a year we have been smashed by injuries and competitive in almost every game. We've improved plenty, I'm not sure what team you have been watching.
 

Chism

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Read my post again (1003). Particularly the last para. I expect a strong performance from Carlton this weekend based on the type of coach Voss is.

And yes, I do think that a fit Cripps and Curnow, along with the additions of Cerra and Hewett to the midfield, would have seen Teague get closer to the 12 wins that Voss has on the board than Teagues end result of 8 wins the season before.

They are mighty handy ins, why wouldn’t one expect to do better with those players added to the side?
You expect a strong performance with us basically fielding a VFL level midfield besides Walsh against the best midfield in the comp??

Once again you are setting Voss up for fail and no one in hell gives us a chance this week and rightly so. You saying you except such a strong performance is just crap and there is no way in hell we are pushing the Demons with our players missing as we dont have the depth to go with them.

The angle you are playing just gives you another reason to hate on Voss if we lose this week by a big margin in a sort of an infatuated self appointed win.

Take Oliver / Petracca and Brayshaw out of the Demons team and see how they go winning the clearances!

But every team cops injuries I suppose…..
 

Rich01

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You expect a strong performance with us basically fielding a VFL level midfield besides Walsh against the best midfield in the comp??

Once again you are setting Voss up for fail and no one in hell gives us a chance this week and rightly so. You saying you except such a strong performance is just crap and there is no way in hell we are pushing the Demons with our players missing as we dont have the depth to go with them.

The angle you are playing just gives you another reason to hate on Voss if we lose this week by a big margin in a sort of an infatuated self appointed win.

Take Oliver / Petracca and Brayshaw out of the Demons team and see how they go winning the clearances!

But every team cops injuries I suppose…..
Yep, I expect a strong response. Again read my post. I didn’t say I expected you to win. But this is the sort of challenge that your coach would pride his team on showing some real intent. Season on the line. Undermanned but all to play for.

Yep, I expect the Blues to come out and show some real fire on Saturday. Don’t you?

And I don’t hate Voss. When Carlton appointed him I stated he was the best available option for Carlton of those available at the time. Reason being I believed he would bring accountability to the playing group and set standards for the team to uphold that I didn’t think the previous coach brought.

The fierceness on intent around the contested ball in the first few weeks of the season is evident of his impact on this group. But I had no idea on his tactical ability as a coach and it’s perhaps one thing that is still a bit of a question mark for him.
 

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doppleganger

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Yet Collingwood, who sit 2nd on the ladder, lost to WCE and fell over the line vs. NM - yep, 'crap' teams, not just an even year..
Been a while since we have had two teams as bad as North and WC in 2022.

Last year Collingwood finished 2nd last with 6 wins. When Carlton started this rebuild, back in 2015, they claimed the spoon with 4 wins.

They are historically bad performances from clubs.

So, you were wrong? Just say it. Grown adults refusing to admit they're wrong is a gross trait. I'm sure Dan Richardson could admit he was wrong.
In 2016 Richmond were stale and treading water. They werent going anywhere.

They changed their entire off field department, did you miss that Richardson wasnt there in 2017.

Probably. But once again, how is it the same 'ship' this year? There was a review, a huge sweep of the club and we've improved; whether we fall into 8th or not. It's not the "same ship" as previous years.
It still looks like same old Carlton, unlike Richmond who gave Hardwick 6-7 seasons before a review and sweep, Carlton do it every other year.

They get an immediate bounce from the new coach, only for things to go south and excuses commence and then another review/new coach will come in...2023 will be a fun watch
 

Chism

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Yep, I expect a strong response. Again read my post. I didn’t say I expected you to win. But this is the sort of challenge that your coach would pride his team on showing some real intent. Season on the line. Undermanned but all to play for.

Yep, I expect the Blues to come out and show some real fire on Saturday. Don’t you?

And I don’t hate Voss. When Carlton appointed him I stated he was the best available option for Carlton of those available at the time. Reason being I believed he would bring accountability to the playing group and set standards for the team to uphold that I didn’t think the previous coach brought.

The fierceness on intent around the contested ball in the first few weeks of the season is evident of his impact on this group. But I had no idea on his tactical ability as a coach and it’s perhaps one thing that is still a bit of a question mark for him.
We had this in Adelaide 2 rounds ago and didn’t show a thing as e came out flat. I understand every team has flat outings and down weeks but ours came at the worst time with a much better team to pick from.

Onto this week we are doomed against the reigning premiers with our outs. No matter what spin is put on it we ain’t winning as we get smashed out of the middle of the ground. We may show heart and more endeavor but we are never healthy list wise.

Had we got the Demons before the bye I would be more hopeful as I reckon our best 22 on the park can compete with them. Sadly we just are smashed at the pointy end of the season regarding players available and it is what it is. It is no surprise the last 10 flag winners and teams that go deep in finals have all had healthy lists to choose from.

Heck the Demons haven’t had a noteable injury or out to a key player for a while especially last season hence a flag win.

You guys were identical in your flag wins as well. You can cover maybe 1 or 2 blokes on different lines but multiple best 22 all in the same position you have no chance against the better teams.
 

bourbons

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Yep, I expect a strong response. Again read my post. I didn’t say I expected you to win. But this is the sort of challenge that your coach would pride his team on showing some real intent. Season on the line. Undermanned but all to play for.

Yep, I expect the Blues to come out and show some real fire on Saturday. Don’t you?

And I don’t hate Voss. When Carlton appointed him I stated he was the best available option for Carlton of those available at the time. Reason being I believed he would bring accountability to the playing group and set standards for the team to uphold that I didn’t think the previous coach brought.

The fierceness on intent around the contested ball in the first few weeks of the season is evident of his impact on this group. But I had no idea on his tactical ability as a coach and it’s perhaps one thing that is still a bit of a question mark for him.
So you're expecting a respectable loss, in other words.

Dunno.. I'd suggest they could show all the 'fire' in the world and still go down by 10 goals with the way the respective midfields are looking.
 

Chism

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So you're expecting a respectable loss, in other words.

Dunno.. I'd suggest they could show all the 'fire' in the world and still go down by 10 goals with the way the respective midfields are looking.
Cripps / Walsh / Kennedy and Hewitt I call it a break even in the battle of clearances out of the middle. Not to mention Hewitt can play a handy shut down role also. Very handy to have had him available to park on Oliver.

Then you go to the battle of the backline and forward lines which is also a break even IMO. Demons are strong down back but suspect up forward at times. Would of been a great game if we had a full list to choose from.
 

chunkylover53

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In 2016 Richmond were stale and treading water. They werent going anywhere.

They changed their entire off field department, did you miss that Richardson wasnt there in 2017.

You said they had maxed out with EF losses, your assessment was wrong.

Yep, like Carlton who won 6,7,8 wins and were stale; changed their entire off field department. As a result we've improved in basically every facet on-field, what a failure, right?

It still looks like same old Carlton, unlike Richmond who gave Hardwick 6-7 seasons before a review and sweep, Carlton do it every other year.

Same old Carlton despite sweeping changes last year.

"Same old Richmond" in 2013-2016 too after 30 years of misery. Melbourne was "same old Melbourne" too. "Same old" WB after they sacked McCartney. Things change in the modern era, you'd be silly to make such definitive statements about any club.

They get an immediate bounce from the new coach, only for things to go south and excuses commence and then another review/new coach will come in...2023 will be a fun watch

So you're saying we will sack Voss soon? Another solid prediction.

You realize Brian Cook has said the following:


Does that really sound like a club sharpening the knives to sack a coach who will miss the 8 with 12 wins? I think it sounds like a club that knows exactly where it's at. Missing finals is a real shame, but 12 wins is ok. They will assess where it went wrong in the back-end and aim to improve next year - and with the age profile of the list, I see very little reason as to why we can't improve.
 

Rich01

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So you're expecting a respectable loss, in other words.

Dunno.. I'd suggest they could show all the 'fire' in the world and still go down by 10 goals with the way the respective midfields are looking.
I do agree with you that seeing their intent at the contest will be obvious on Saturday regardless of the result.

I do expect them to take it up to Melbourne but ultimately fall short of the win.

Which is pretty much where they are at this year.

They have got some easy kills with weaker teams but ended up losing more than they won against sides above and around them on the ladder.
 

doppleganger

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You said they had maxed out with EF losses, your assessment was wrong.
They had until they brought in a new footy department and traded for 3 quality players.

In 2016 I wasnt giving opinion on Richmond with Prestia, Nankervis, Caddy on the list or Balme heading up a new footy department.
Yep, like Carlton who won 6,7,8 wins and were stale; changed their entire off field department. As a result we've improved in basically every facet on-field, what a failure, right?

Bolton had a good 1st year too
Teague a strong half year after taking over
Now Voss a good 1st year

Same old Carlton despite sweeping changes last year.

So you're saying we will sack Voss soon? Another solid prediction.

You realize Brian Cook has said the following:


Does that really sound like a club sharpening the knives to sack a coach who will miss the 8 with 12 wins? I think it sounds like a club that knows exactly where it's at. Missing finals is a real shame, but 12 wins is ok. They will assess where it went wrong in the back-end and aim to improve next year - and with the age profile of the list, I see very little reason as to why we can't improve.
How many coaches, CEO, list managers since SOS came in with his 66 game rebuild?

Im not sad enough to go trawling for posts from 2018 where all Carlton nuffs were defending Bolton and his green shoots and SOS horrendous recruiting.

Come 2022 they still have a horribly skinny list with holes everywhere.

As said, 2023 will be fun watching Carlton again
 

TDonny

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Not the best form recently and a bunch of injuries but it's not too late to turn it around. Can push the pies if they lose this week to Sydney.
 

TDonny

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Would expect Kennedy, Martin, Stocker and maybe Zac Williams to all be available for selection. Or roll the dice on a couple if needed. Plus I think we have a better chance at beating Pies then we do Dees.