Isaac Smith v Mitch Duncan

[Riders of Rohan]

Smith by a mile for mine if the question if which would you prefer in your side.

Smith by a mile for mine if the question is who I think will be the better player.

Unfortunately for Duncan I've never seen him play a good game, granted I didn't watch that many the times I did he never did anything that impressed.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Being 2 and a half years older more then compensates for that.

Smith is currently a little better but I am confident Duncan will go past him as he matures.

Those two years have mainly been spent playing bush football, without professional training though. Fitness and conditioning staff often rate players on their 'training age', depending on how many actual seasons of professional training they've been involved in. Some kids who come through TAC have had 2 or 3 years in a system that builds strength and conditioning, while others come from a back ground of "train tuesday and thursday,then play on sat'd".

2011 was Smith's first taste of a proper preseason, and even then he was held back because of how under-developed his body is compared to other 21yr olds.
He wasn't pushed, and made to take his time, yet he still forced his way into the side and then started to dominate patches of play.

The belief that his age renders him the 'complete' product is wrong. He'll add strength to his core and limbs over the coming years, just like an 18yr old does when they first get drafted and from what he's already shown, he's going to be one to watch.

 

[Monkey King]

You still upset at me proving Cousins was a better player than Hird

If you think you did that with stats, all you really did was show how stats can lie.

As for the poll, I went with Menzel, although I nearly gave it to Smith based on his finals series, which was really good IMO, although he could have hit the scoreboard a bit more though. In the end, given Menzel didn't have that chance, I stuck with him.

Menzel performs better against the top side too ...

Smith kicked 17 of 20 goals against the bottom 10 teams. Only 2 of 20 against top 4 teams.

Menzel kicked 15 of 28 against top 8 teams, 9 against the top 4, including 5 vs Collingwood.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If you think you did that with stats, all you really did was show how stats can lie.

As for the poll, I went with Menzel, although I nearly gave it to Smith based on his finals series, which was really good IMO, although he could have hit the scoreboard a bit more though. In the end though, given Menzel didn't have that chance, I stuck with him.

Menzel performs better against the top side too ...

Smith kicked 17 of 20 goals against the bottom 10 teams. Only 2 of 20 against top 4 teams.

Menzel kicked 15 of 28 against top 8 teams, 9 against the top 4, including 5 vs Collingwood.

Perhaps read the thread title.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Smith actually has more improvement left in him physically. He's a rake at the moment, has more upside in terms of size.

 

[donbooger]

Those two years have mainly been spent playing bush football, without professional training though. Fitness and conditioning staff often rate players on their 'training age', depending on how many actual seasons of professional training they've been involved in. Some kids who come through TAC have had 2 or 3 years in a system that builds strength and conditioning, while others come from a back ground of "train tuesday and thursday,then play on sat'd".

2011 was Smith's first taste of a proper preseason, and even then he was held back because of how under-developed his body is compared to other 21yr olds.
He wasn't pushed, and made to take his time, yet he still forced his way into the side and then started to dominate patches of play.

The belief that his age renders him the 'complete' product is wrong. He'll add strength to his core and limbs over the coming years, just like an 18yr old does when they first get drafted and from what he's already shown, he's going to be one to watch.

That is fine, I took into account he has a lot of upside especially being recruited at twig like 77kg. He is up against someone with similar potential though and being 23 as opposed to 20 is no positive.

To clarify a bit in case I have been sounding like I am throwing the boots into Smith, I think they are both on the way to solid careers and have both exceeded the expectations of the draft picks they were selected with, no need for either side to be disappointed yet.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Good poll.

Smith, just.

 

[donbooger]

What is so illogical about preferring the better player to be in your team? He/she said they thought Smith was the better player, but would prefer Duncan, I thought it was strange.

I have tried to explain the explain the importance of age when comparing players to the best of my ability if you dont understand yet you will have to go elsewhere.

As for your 'logic', if you were playing in a grand final tomorrow, you would prefer Reid and Hurley over Pavlich and Brown?

Yes of course you would, you are creating a scenario not in the OP though, Hyper didnt say "...keep in mind you have a grand final tomorrow"

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Smith definitely.

Has a fantastic will to drag himself into the game and workrate.

More damaging, much quicker and more scope for physical improvement.

Would be the perfect replacement for Embley.

 

[Testekill]

I think that Duncan might be the better player that the end of their respective careers but I have to say Smith because he took a spot for himself in a very strong midfield and proved to be useful around goals.

I'd love both of them at the Bulldogs though.

 

[DTRAIN87]

Smith actually has more improvement left in him physically. He's a rake at the moment, has more upside in terms of size.

What do you base this on? I thought HodgePodge that mature players from Country Football who play in the AFL as mature recruits are naturally better and cannot improve much. This was the argument you put forward for Gary Ablett Senior.

 

[mustafish]

What do you base this on? I thought HodgePodge that mature players from Country Football who play in the AFL as mature recruits are naturally better and cannot improve much. This was the argument you put forward for Gary Ablett Senior.

duncan for me.....

 

[Kurtley Beale]

Good Poll at the moment is hard to choose i would probably pick Smith that being said though Duncan has the better body to cope with hard tough Finals footy especially in games like the Friday Prelim this year. Interesting to see almost all Duncan voters are Geelong, Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood fans.. typical... wondering where the North supporters are though..

 

[Kurtley Beale]

What do you base this on? I thought HodgePodge that mature players from Country Football who play in the AFL as mature recruits are naturally better and cannot improve much. This was the argument you put forward for Gary Ablett Senior.

Mate i think that's is based on the fact that Smith is all Twigs and Sticks in the Arms and Legs.. I thought that was pretty straight forward..

 

[Dougy12]

Duncan is/will be the far better player and have a better career.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Duncan is/will be the far better player and have a better career.

I can understand some people liking Duncan better, as I think they are even. But Duncan being is/will be far better is just a silly thing to say. Duncan wasn't far better in 2011. They were both pretty close. Please explain.

 

[WWSD]

Isaac Smith, every day every week every second every hour evey year every minute etc etc.

Smith will have a better year. He could possibly kick 30 goals in 2012 as a running midfielder. Duncan is good. But just how good will he actually become when Ling has retired and a bunch of older players to follow suit. He will have no support!

 

[Hodgepodge]

What do you base this on? I thought HodgePodge that mature players from Country Football who play in the AFL as mature recruits are naturally better and cannot improve much. This was the argument you put forward for Gary Ablett Senior.

Ablett Senior was already a good size when recruited and when he started his career at Geelong at the age of 23.

Smith is lighter than players a foot shorter than him.

Of course the proof will be in the pudding, and we'll see if Smith's game can improve measurably after putting on some weight.

He could stagnate and always be a 18 possession, 1.5 goal a game player.

Or he could explode and become a big ball winner.

In terms of ability and natural weapons, Smith is faster and with the bigger engine. Mitch Duncan is a nice flanker, but not showing much signs of making it as a permanent midfielder.

 

[Smyth94]

You still upset at me proving Cousins was a better player than Hird

Ahhh...just a bundle of laughs.

 

[Alexwce]

Isaac Smith. Smith would compliment our side very nicely. Based on what the post asked for and that alone. Wouldn't say Smith will necessarily be the better player than Duncan.