Israel Folau - HIGHEST PAID PLAYER in the AFL. What a joke.

[HARKER]

Folau doesn't seem to get that there's a huge difference between your employer saying "if you continue to live your life by the rules of your religion we'll fire you" and your employer saying "if you continue to publicly denounce others who don't live their lives by your religion we'll fire you", and that that difference defines which side of the argument is 'discrimination'.

~Jenny Lawrence

And how exactly do we know that this is indeed in Folaus contract?
Seems to me that lots of people are manufacturing many situations to satisfy themselves that they're indeed moral and have insights beyond others.

The only 'fact' we have here is that we don't know the terms and conditions of the understanding that Folau entered into and to be ousted by some catch-all term of 'bringing the game into disrepute' is in itself morally corrupt.
This is now at the heart of the matter, but it brings into play so many other factors that we should all be watching the game at hand.

Plenty of politics to be played out here, just yet.

 

[Strange Cat]

I just can’t help but laugh at this so called culture war and Folau victim mentality.


He was previously given a warning by his workplace not to engage in said behaviour/post...and then does it again and ignored all warning to delete the posts....as a consequence gets the sacked.

It’s just that simple ...the victim mentality and so called vilification of his religion is just plain ridiculous.

 

[kranky al]

And how exactly do we know that this is indeed in Folaus contract?
Seems to me that lots of people are manufacturing many situations to satisfy themselves that they're indeed moral and have insights beyond others.

The only 'fact' we have here is that we don't know the terms and conditions of the understanding that Folau entered into and to be ousted by some catch-all term of 'bringing the game into disrepute' is in itself morally corrupt.
This is now at the heart of the matter, but it brings into play so many other factors that we should all be watching the game at hand.

Plenty of politics to be played out here, just yet.

Yeah right

You rock up to work and work gives you a written warning saying dont do this

You continue to do this

You double down they give you another warning saying that if you continue doing this you will lose your job.

You continue doing this

Good luck

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Why are all the religious nut bars in here from Perth ?

 

[mxett]

Well if they are against it - they have a really funny way of showing it

tell me, do you think pedophilia amongst clergymen is at higher rates than the general population?

 

[mxett]

A couple of months ago a catholic priest was caught pilfering from the organisation

Did they move him to another diocese?

Did they cover it up?

Did they f%^*

They handed him over to the police and preferred charges

That should tell you all you need to know about this international corporation that pays no tax.

all that shows is the church is as susceptible to corruption as any other organisation

 

[mxett]

Folau doesn't seem to get that there's a huge difference between your employer saying "if you continue to live your life by the rules of your religion we'll fire you" and your employer saying "if you continue to publicly denounce others who don't live their lives by your religion we'll fire you", and that that difference defines which side of the argument is 'discrimination'.

~Jenny Lawrence

and where is that line crossed? Can he discuss his faith with a stranger who shows interest?

 

[kranky al]

tell me, do you think pedophilia amongst clergymen is at higher rates than the general population?

By a large factor yes

 

[Roobs321]

I’m on the fence about it

He says they (along with others) will go to his Hell

I believe such a place is imaginary and therefore couldn’t give a ****

IF he claimed they should be stoned or denied human rights here on earth - I’d want him put in gaol

As it is - it’s like saying brunettes will go to the mystic magic land unless they dye their hair. - it’s all fictitious

His religion and beliefs (in my eyes) are nutty - but he’s entitled to them AND they have zero direct impact on anyone here on earth or in reality

I disagree. Saying someone is going to hell (a well-known concept) is like saying someone is going to a place worse than prison. And that they were born to that fate. Legally it might be different to claiming they should be stoned or denied human rights, but as an expression saying a group of people is going to hell is a loaded comment.

 

[kranky al]

and where is that line crossed? Can he discuss his faith with a stranger who shows interest?

Did you miss the bit where it says publically denounced.


Social media yes in his own church no

 

[HARKER]

Yeah right

You rock up to work and work gives you a written warning saying dont do this

You continue to do this

You double down they give you another warning saying that if you continue doing this you will lose your job.

You continue doing this

Good luck

You know that this is what went down? I must have missed it. Please tell me how you choose to announce this as a fact.
You don't really know do you now? This is a problem. So many 'pretend' to know something they don't because it satisfies ones bias.

Just hang Folau now. Who needs a court? Waste of time, right?

 

[Roobs321]

It's very much about freedom of speech and about the authority an employer can impose upon their employees.
What has happened to Folau can happen to you and yes one may cite that the situations may be vastly different, but they're really not.
We're all being told what to say, how and when to say it. Critical thinking people abhor having to bow to PC, as PC is not what it's dressed up to be.

FWIW, I'm don't like being described as an atheist, for the reason you described. I'm simply a non-theist.
I don't care for ones 'beliefs' of this god, nor that one, the one over there, or the thousand or so others. To 'believe' isn't a noble ambition. It's really not.

He signed up with an employer which has a certain set of consistent, inclusive values. He breached those agreed employee expectations several times. He posed increased risk to promotional efforts and client retention.

It is that simple. If you decide to work for an organisation, don't conflict with its values in a manner that undermines organisational objectives.

 

[Roobs321]

You know that this is what went down? I must have missed it. Please tell me how you choose to announce this as a fact.
You don't really know do you now? This is a problem. So many 'pretend' to know something they don't because it satisfies ones bias.

Just hang Folau now. Who needs a court? Waste of time, right?

This is a linear sequence of events which has received considerable media discussion, and the evidence is a matter of public record.

 

[HARKER]

He signed up with an employer which has a certain set of consistent, inclusive values. He breached those agreed employee expectations several times. He posed increased risk to promotional efforts and client retention.

It is that simple. If you decide to work for an organisation, don't conflict with its values in a manner that undermines organisational objectives.

That sounds so easy in principle. It even makes for common sense............so, why are we off to the Federal Court?
Would you instruct your client to fight something that's indefensible? Like I've said; Let's see the way this one plays out. Plenty of time to throw stones.

This is a linear sequence of events which has received considerable media discussion, and the evidence is a matter of public record.

I've got it. Trust the media. Good one.

Evidence on public record. Show me. Are we talking about the same thing? Folaus contract where it specifically states he will no longer participate in 'religious' tweets is on public record. If that's the case, he's gone.....but I don't think he's gone quite yet.

 

[mxett]

By a large factor yes

based on what evidence?

 

[mxett]

Did you miss the bit where it says publically denounced.


Social media yes in his own church no

so in church is fine, but in the carpark isnt? On twitter no, on messenger yes?

 

[Roobs321]

That sounds so easy in principle. It even makes for common sense............so, why are we off to the Federal Court?

Would you instruct your client to fight something that's indefensible? Like I said, let's see the way this one plays out. Plenty of time to throw stones.

That sounds so easy in principle. It even makes for common sense............so, why are we off to the Federal Court?

Would you instruct your client to fight something that's indefensible? Like I said, let's see the way this one plays out. Plenty of time to throw stones.

His legal fight isn't sincerely about winning back his contract.

I don't like the references to throwing stones, hanging people, etc. Can't we just talk about this matter without resorting to such language.

 

[HARKER]

His legal fight isn't sincerely about winning back his contract.

I don't like the references to throwing stones, hanging people, etc. Can't we just talk about this matter without resorting to such language.

I don't know of the gravity of his sincerity or otherwise. I just know that there are many things in play here and it's not all above board.

For this reason alone, I'll give Folau the benefit of the doubt until 'facts' come to the fore, but as for now.........they just haven't.

 

[kranky al]

so in church is fine, but in the carpark isnt? On twitter no, on messenger yes?

You struggle with incredibly simple concepts dont you?

 

[kranky al]

based on what evidence?

So glad you asked

What Percentage Of Catholic Priests Have Been Abusive?

A study found that 4 percent of Catholic priests have been accused of sexually abusing minors. That is much more than in the general population.

www.patheos.com

Some years ago, the John Jay College Criminal Justice program carried out an extensive study of accusations dating from between 1950 and 2002. It found that 4.2% of priests had been accused of child sexual abuse. (See this post by Jonathan M. S. Pearce for statistics and studies about this issue, including links to the sources. )

That is not a huge percentage, but it is significant nonetheless. That would mean that 4 out of every 100 priests, or 1 out of 25 have accused of sexual misconduct with minors. The number includes both priests accused of pedophilia and the much larger number who have targeted adolescents.

A more recent Australian study found that 7% of the priests in that country had been accused. An expert who has worked extensively with priests caught up in these scandals estimates that 6% are involved, with 4% targeting teenagers, aged 13-17, and 2% targeting pre-pubescent children.

As for pedophilia, studies Pearce cites indicate that as many as 1% of men are sexually attracted to children, but the percentage of those who actually act on those attractions are much smaller.

 

[mxett]

You struggle with incredibly simple concepts dont you?

you struggle to discuss a topic without getting personal. Give it a go

 

[Roobs321]

I don't know of the gravity of his sincerity or otherwise. I just know that there are many things in play here and it's not all above board.

For this reason alone, I'll give Folau the benefit of the doubt until 'facts' come to the fore, but as for now.........they just haven't.

Organisational governance frameworks & recurrent instances of in-breach published social media posts is all the transparency facts you need to make a reasonable assessment of the incident. Whether or not someone is in Folau's ear is speculative, but the reasons for his dismissal are all process.

 

[mxett]

So glad you asked

What Percentage Of Catholic Priests Have Been Abusive?

A study found that 4 percent of Catholic priests have been accused of sexually abusing minors. That is much more than in the general population.

www.patheos.com

Some years ago, the John Jay College Criminal Justice program carried out an extensive study of accusations dating from between 1950 and 2002. It found that 4.2% of priests had been accused of child sexual abuse. (See this post by Jonathan M. S. Pearce for statistics and studies about this issue, including links to the sources. )

That is not a huge percentage, but it is significant nonetheless. That would mean that 4 out of every 100 priests, or 1 out of 25 have accused of sexual misconduct with minors. The number includes both priests accused of pedophilia and the much larger number who have targeted adolescents.

A more recent Australian study found that 7% of the priests in that country had been accused. An expert who has worked extensively with priests caught up in these scandals estimates that 6% are involved, with 4% targeting teenagers, aged 13-17, and 2% targeting pre-pubescent children.

As for pedophilia, studies Pearce cites indicate that as many as 1% of men are sexually attracted to children, but the percentage of those who actually act on those attractions are much smaller.

Putting clergy abuse in context, research from the US Department of Education found that about 5-7 percent of public school teachers engaged in similar sexually abusive behavior with their students during a similar time frame. While no comprehensive studies have been conducted with most other religious traditions, a small scale study that I was involved with found that 4 percent of Anglican priests had violated minors in western Canada and many reports have mentioned that clerical abuse of minors is common with other religious leaders and clerics as well. https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/...8/separating-facts-about-clergy-abuse-fiction

Now I'm not catholic and Im not trying to defend the behaviour, but claims abuse is higher amongst clergy just isnt true. It's a society-wide issue

 

[kranky al]

you struggle to discuss a topic without getting personal. Give it a go

Mate ive tried to explain a concept a 6 year old child could grasp in about 30 seconds

You are either being deliberately dense or you dont have a choice

If you genuinely dont have a choice in the matter i apologise

 

[Chief]

Why are all the religious nut bars in here from Perth ?

This was disputed vigorously by a friend from Perth, but yeah WA seems to be a bit over represented in the hatey posting stakes.