Israel Folau - HIGHEST PAID PLAYER in the AFL. What a joke.

mouncey2franklin

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Respect works both ways.
You are claiming that if Folau utters his honest opinions publicly then he is being 'disrespectful'?

Do you honestly believe that?

I don't agree with Folau about gays (or anybody else) 'going to hell' but he is not being disrespectful to me by airing his views.

What kind of self-righteous w***er thinks that somebody disagreeing with them is necessarily being disrespectful?
 

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MarkT2

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One can wax lyrical about religion and how it might be true. Ignorance always hides in the shadows like this. It’s when we put the light on these systems and ask them to show what they know, that religion has proven pretty useless in helping humans understanding how s**t really works, while science has taken humanity to places religion couldn’t even imagine.
Yes but can anyone show how or why the big bang occurred? It's the same faith based belief system in the gaps. There is evidence for the big bang and it is the prevailing generally accepted theory, replacing prior prevailing accpeted theories. If it is true then how is it possible? It's almost a miracle.

What is knowledge?
 

skilts

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Not being a believer, I still get a bit annoyed at people pointing the finger of idiocy of people just for being believers.
Such people deserve ridicule because of their complete misunderstanding of the nature and TRUTH of beliefs. They are so embroiled in celebrating their disappearance up their own fundaments, they find it offensive if someone asks them to actually think for themselves, rather than quoting by rote, from volumes of dubious lineage, containing fantastic human constructions, consisting of black squiggles on pages.
 

Monkey King

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Yes but can anyone show how or why the big bang occurred? It's the same faith based belief system in the gaps.
There is evidence for the big bang and it is the prevailing generally accepted theory, replacing prior prevailing accpeted theories. If it is true then how is it possible? It's almost a miracle.

What is knowledge?
The Big Bang is not “science”. It is one theoretical model of the observable universe, based on centuries of observation and measurement, and mathematical reasoning. Scientists arrive at credible theories so that they can be tested by others for validity, providing a body of evidence that either supports or doesn’t support the theory.

The gaps in a theory are what make it a theory. They don’t represent a leap of faith, they represent a framework for further inquiry - what to observe and measure and what enhanced instrumentation will be required to do so. This is how scientific knowledge and technology builds upon itself, the results of which are unparalleled in human history.

Knowledge to me is something that can predict and thus, can be tested. If you say you know something, I can ask for evidence of such. If you fail to produce, I would say your claimed knowledge would fall under suspicion.
 

Rusty Brookes

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Yes but can anyone show how or why the big bang occurred? It's the same faith based belief system in the gaps. There is evidence for the big bang and it is the prevailing generally accepted theory, replacing prior prevailing accpeted theories. If it is true then how is it possible? It's almost a miracle.

What is knowledge?
Saying why the big bang occurred implies there has to be a reason behind it. There doesn't have to be any reason behind it - it just happened. In terms of how, I suggest reading A Universe from Nothing by Laurence Krauss which explains how the Universe most likely came into being.

Also gaps in scientific understanding is not evidence for the existence of any deity - that's known as the God of the Gaps fallacy.

 

MarkT2

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Such people deserve ridicule because of their complete misunderstanding of the nature and TRUTH of beliefs. They are so embroiled in celebrating their disappearance up their own fundaments, they find it offensive if someone asks them to actually think for themselves, rather than quoting by rote, from volumes of dubious lineage, containing fantastic human constructions, consisting of black squiggles on pages.
Sounds like they find your beliefs as offensive you find theirs.
 

MarkT2

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Knowledge to me is something that can predict and thus, can be tested. If you say you know something, I can ask for evidence of such. If you fail to produce, I would say your claimed knowledge would fall under suspicion.
Sure but ALL of it is confined by current understanding which as we know can be thrown 180 degress. Before Europeans came to Australia, Swans we white.
 

Monkey King

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Sure but ALL of it is confined by current understanding which as we know can be thrown 180 degress. Before Europeans came to Australia, Swans we white.
I don’t follow your reasoning. Science is not at all confined by current understanding. If it was, it would never have grown much beyond the “current” understandings of previous generations. On the contrary, that’s what’s been so bloody great about it; when current understanding is thrown 180 degrees, it’s science that’s doing the throwing.
 

catscratchfever

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You are claiming that if Folau utters his honest opinions publicly then he is being 'disrespectful'?

Do you honestly believe that?

I don't agree with Folau about gays (or anybody else) 'going to hell' but he is not being disrespectful to me by airing his views.

What kind of self-righteous w***er thinks that somebody disagreeing with them is necessarily being disrespectful?
But at the same time you say that I am disrespectful for expressing my opinion. You are a hypocrite, plain and simple.

Please address the points I made in my posts, as I have answered the questions in your previous responses as best I could.

So you're good with, say, Nazis openly expressing their views? Is it OK if someone publicly quotes Mein Kampf? Or don't you draw any lines whatsoever? Seems not.

I did not insult Folau in any way, shape or form. I said that I don't respect his opinion. Understand?

Amongst other things, I mentioned that I looked forward to him quoting the bits in the Bible about slavery being OK and women obeying men. You have ignored that - and most everything else I wrote. Get off your high horse and stop insulting me personally for expressing my option. Otherwise, GO AWAY.

You are implying I am a w***er, so I now feel free to say that you seem to be a bit of a dullard, little boy. And that's apparently one of your good points.
 
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mouncey2franklin

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Nazis openly expressing their views? Is it OK if someone publicly quotes Mein Kampf? Or don't you draw any lines whatsoever? Seems not.
I don't even know what a 'Nazi' is these days. I've been called a Nazi for not wanting open borders.

If not wanting open borders makes me a Nazi, then yes, definitely, Nazis should be allowed to express their views.
 

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catscratchfever

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I don't even know what a 'Nazi' is these days. I've been called a Nazi for not wanting open borders.

If not wanting open borders makes me a Nazi, then yes, definitely, Nazis should be allowed to express their views.
You're a self-confessed Nazi? Then you're the absolute scum of the earth. They're who we fought against in WW2, so fu** you. Unbelievable.
 

MarkT2

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I don’t follow your reasoning. Science is not at all confined by current understanding. If it was, it would never have grown much beyond the “current” understandings of previous generations. On the contrary, that’s what’s been so bloody great about it; when current understanding is thrown 180 degrees, it’s science that’s doing the throwing.
Not science - Knowledge is confined by current understanding. The "World" knew Swans were White. This was tens of thousands of years of undisputed knowledge until someone from Europe came to Australia.
 

Kwality

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You're a self-confessed Nazi? Then you're the absolute scum of the earth. They're who we fought against in WW2, so fu** you. Unbelievable.
I know what Hitler stood for, what does a modern day Nazi stand for here in Aus, IMHO its little more than a handle for a group that offends your own views.
Not a fan over the extremes left or right.
 

Ghost of Punt Road

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Not science - Knowledge is confined by current understanding. The "World" knew Swans were White. This was tens of thousands of years of undisputed knowledge until someone from Europe came to Australia.

Except for all the people who were living next to those black swans for tens of thousands of years.

Oh, and the European albino swans :)

There is also more than one type of knowledge. A priori a can 'know that a swan COULD be white.

Science is always excited to learn they had incomplete knowledge and learn a new thing.

Religion disappears up its own vortex when faced with obvious contradiction.
 

Monkey King

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Not science - Knowledge is confined by current understanding. The "World" knew Swans were White. This was tens of thousands of years of undisputed knowledge until someone from Europe came to Australia.
A scientific approach to such a scenario would be to say the evidence only supports swans being white; this is called a null hypothesis, whose validity should be tested empirically with alternative hypotheses. If evidence consistently supports an alternative hypothesis (i.e. people keep seeing black swans), then a new null hypothesis could be supported - that evidence supports swans being white and black. This new null doesn’t exclude the possible existence of purple swans, but it does put an onus on anyone claiming such, to provide evidence.

So I think your post got it mixed up. Our current understanding is confined by our body of knowledge, which through scientific method and technology, are being ever expanded. Build a telescope, chart Jupiters moons, use it to calculate longitude, sail to WA, see black swans, so on and so forth. This took centuries.

This is why religion deservedly looks silly. It is belief without evidence and in some cases, in the face of evidence. In such a world, swans of every colour are real, they also drive cars and trade on the stock market. I mean come on, prove they don’t exists and even if you do, I’ll still have my faith right?
 

poshman

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You're a self-confessed Nazi? Then you're the absolute scum of the earth. They're who we fought against in WW2, so fu** you. Unbelievable.
This type of thinking is exactly what is wrong with modern discussion.

He said he didn't know what a Nazi was these days (which is due to language being ruined by emotive accusations and identity politics) and that if it was simply being against open borders then he was. Why would you then launch an attack as you did?

I don't like Trump as a person and disagree with some of his policies and behaviour but when people say he is 'literally hitler' - how they don't laugh at themselves and their own idiocy is beyond me. Perhaps they could say he is 'like Hitler' although that argument falls apart with minimal scrutiny, but to say he is literally hitler would require a religious belief far beyond that which you are criticising.

The saddest thing is that although the world needs a strong centre left party they have gone so nuts that they have weakened politics and discourse in general. You disagree with me = Racist - Sexist - Nazi - Homophobe etc. Why can't we just disagree and have robust discussion/debate?

The absolute scum of the earth? I would have thought that people who minimise the horrors of Nazi Germany and the millions who died due to their regime, by calling someone who doesn't want open borders a Nazi... that is scumbaggery!
 
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