Israel, Palestine, and everything related

[Number37]

 

[strauchnyy]

Hahaha oh cmon.. you can do a lot better than "Pallywood" photos.

And double 'lol' for your second picture... It's a common pro-Israel people use to show that terrorism occurs 24/7 in Israel.

Again, your absolute ignorance on the issue is astounding and here for all to see.

 

[strauchnyy]

I also find it funny that you cannot answer my question, and instead resort to cartoon propaganda. Anyone can find propaganda cartoons on the internet.

You are a simpleton and you prove me right with every post you make.

 

[Power Raid]

It's sad that this issue has no end in sight and many choose a side rather than choose to support policy.

Perhaps this is part of the problem.

 

[strauchnyy]

It's sad that this issue has no end in sight and many choose a side rather than choose to support policy.

Perhaps this is part of the problem.

I hope one day there can be peace. I don't simply support a side, both do wrong and the innocent people in the middle suffer.

But any policy starts with Hamas/whoever leads the Palestinians, to drop down their weapons, remove the racist education indoctrinated into their schooling systems and actually recognise Israel as a peace partner, rather than literally trying to destroy it at every opportunity. Israel cannot give land, or come to the table with a side that openly calls for it's destruction, and that calls it's people to commit stabbings. Once this is removed, Peace (hopefully with a 2 state solution) can be implemented. Israel need to refrain from settlement expansion in the West Bank too.

 

[Power Raid]

I hope one day there can be peace. I don't simply support a side, both do wrong and the innocent people in the middle suffer.

But any policy starts with Hamas/whoever leads the Palestinians, to drop down their weapons, remove the racist education indoctrinated into their schooling systems and actually recognise Israel as a peace partner, rather than literally trying to destroy it at every opportunity. Israel cannot give land, or come to the table with a side that openly calls for it's destruction, and that calls it's people to commit stabbings. Once this is removed, Peace (hopefully with a 2 state solution) can be implemented. Israel need to refrain from settlement expansion in the West Bank too.

Yep

The concept of giving land or carving up the nation based on race or religion is so embarrassing these days.

How can we be anti discrimination but be pro decisions by race?

Policies for peace have to be carrot and stick until the population is educated and wealthy.

In the meantime equality is how we should measure Israel's government and the nation. Note this concept includes Jews and Palestinians alike. They both own Israel and both own this problem.

 

[Todman]

So let me get this straight, Palestinians deserve to die because they voted in Hamas?

You also conveniently ignored my question. What did the ~500 children do that warrants them being killed in their own home?

Yes , its collateral damage. Palestinians have the highest fertility rates on the planet they quickly breed more..

 

[Number37]

• 
  Article 52 [ Link ] -- General protection of civilian objects
  
  1. Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of reprisals. Civilian objects are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 2.
  
  2. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.
  
  3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used.
  
  
  
  • 
    Article 57 [ Link ] -- Precautions in attack
    
    
    (iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;
    
    
    
    5. No provision of this Article may be construed as authorizing any attacks against the civilian population, civilians or civilian objects.

https://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl...t&documentId=D9E6B6264D7723C3C12563CD002D6CE4

Israel has been watching for over an hour and has not seen civilians in the house, but has seen the terrorist go in and bombs the backyard. The terrorist and the civilian die.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-palestine-and-everything-related.1070179/page-109


In breach of the Geneva convention?
If it is then clearly it constitutes a war crime.


It is easy for some people to have complete disregard or respect for human life. Instead seek to trivialise or worse excuse it and on top of that label anyone that disagrees that with Israeli propaganda, like so:

And Number37 gets a new poster on his wall next to Osama.

or worse still:

Palestinians have the highest fertility rates on the planet they quickly breed more..

You should be ashamed of yourselves, but more likely that you are proud that innocent people get killed and you get to gloat about it anonymously on the internet.

 

[Number37]

John Docker, a professor of genocide and massacre studies at the University of Sydney:
“Genocide studies is now, it seems clear, actively seeking opportunities to be complicit in Israel’s flouting of international law, not least the Fourth Geneva Convention.”

John Dugard, a former UN special rapporteur for human rights in the occupied Palestinian territories
“There are serious allegations that Israel committed crimes against humanity in its 2014 assault on Gaza,”

Seems like Israel will go to any lengths to stop people from speaking out against their brutality;

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0601...srael-prepares-fight-boycott-activists-online
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0601...srael-prepares-fight-boycott-activists-online
But at least the tide is slowly turning, this brutality inflicted on the Palestinians is a blight on humanity and people around the world are starting to stand up against it, despite every attempt from Israel to sweep it under the carpet.

In the first week of January 2016, the $20-billion Pension and Health Benefits Fund of the United Methodist Church declared the five largest Israeli banks off limits for investment and divested from the two that it held in its portfolios.

Also in 2016, Irish building materials corporation CRH and French telecoms giant Orange announced their withdrawal from Israel following effective BDS campaigns against them. Coming on the heels of the decision by Veolia, another large French company that ended its involvement in Israeli projects that violate international law, these exits have been hailed by BDS activists as a start of a “domino effect.”

The Brazilian state of Bahia decided on April 2 to end its cooperation agreement with Israeli water company Mekorot, and more than 27 local councils in Spain have declared themselves “Israeli Apartheid Free Zones” over the last few months.

 

[Lemma]

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...called-for-poisoning-Palestinian-water-457690

Apparently he has retracted it now- well at least he has some (albeit miniscule) semblance of a conscience

 

[strauchnyy]

• 
  Article 52 [ Link ] -- General protection of civilian objects
  
  1. Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of reprisals. Civilian objects are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 2.
  
  2. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.
  
  3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used.

Ran out of propaganda cartoons I see, looks like our little terrorist sympathizer is growing up.

Regarding paragraph 2:

Nature: nature of the area is basically a military base to either, a) launch rockets at Israel, b) store weapons/rockets, c) use as location to build the terror tunnels into Israel.

Purpose: to use said location as a base to launch rockets at Israel, or to store weapons.

Therefore, these locations are military targets, Hamas make them military targets by the nature and purpose in which the location is used for. This is why it is not a breach, in fact a legal military target. This is in stark contrast to the Palestinians who are actually breaching the Geneva convention by actually firing at civilians:

However, if, following these warnings, it appears that there will be excessive collateral damage, including in instances where civilians have been urged by Hamas to act as human shields, Israel has been known to abort attacks, even when it means that those Hamas targets still have the capability to launch attacks on Israeli civilians.

Moreover, the principle of distinction requires a ban on the use of weapons that are incapable of being properly aimed at legitimate targets. In violation of this law, thousands of rockets have been indiscriminately launched by Hamas over the past weeks, targeting the Israeli civilian population.

Hamas knows that if it stopped firing rockets into Israel, Israel would have ceased its operation in Gaza. Yet, Hamas combatants have increased their firing range to over 160km, which means rockets have been fired at Israeli cities as far north as Haifa, Hadera and Zikhron Ya'akov, as well as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. This rocket fire is indiscriminate and targeted at the civilian populations.

Hamas deliberately enmeshes itself within the civilian population, which means that innocent people will die despite Israel's best efforts to take precautions.

More than 2,200 rockets have been fired by Hamas and other terrorist groups from the Gaza Strip into Israel since July 8, and the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have responded by attacking terrorist targets in Gaza.

Israel initially countered the rocket fire by telling Hamas, "quiet will be met with quiet", yet Hamas continued to fire rockets. Israel also accepted a ceasefire proposal by Egypt, backed by the Arab League and the Palestinian Authority (PA), which on July 15 was rejected by Hamas.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...ivilian-casualties-a-tragic-certainty/5624470

As you cannot comprehend anything with any level of complexity, I'll say it again: Palestinians die (which is horrible), because of their leaders' (Hamas) actions, i.e. the human shield tactic, not because of Israel. You continuously, overlook this key fact.

You failed to answer my question and you merely copied a small snippet of it to suit your biased agenda. I call on you to answer it in full:

Number37 - A palestinian shoots 15 rockets from the backyard of house in Gaza at Israel. His goal: kill innocent israelis with the rockets. And his rockets are landing on civilian Israeli areas. After firing as many rockets as possible, he sees an Israeli fighter jet approach and he rushes inside the house and joins a Palestinian civilian who is forced to stay inside the house under Hamas's control. Israel has been watching for over an hour and has not seen civilians in the house, but has seen the terrorist go in and bombs the backyard. The terrorist and the civilian die. The world reports that Israel have killed 2 people.

Whose fault is it that the civilian died? What choice do Israel have?

You should be ashamed of yourselves, but more likely that you are proud that innocent people get killed and you get to gloat about it anonymously on the internet.

How dare you spit out such rubbish. You hypocrite. You justify rockets, stabbings on Israel, you even justify islamic terrorism in the terrorism thread yet call me and the other posters out for gloating about people getting killed. How brain damaged are you? None of us gloated about it. It is horrible when innocent civilians die on any side.. but the civilians dying is because if the Palestinians' leaders actions! So in reality if you care so much about innocent people dieing, why arnt you pointing the finger at your terrorist buddies? The simple fact you cannot see that means you are either 1 - too stupid or 2 - a terrorist sympathizer. It is one or the other, or both.

 

[Number37]

Yet more evidence of Israel's attempts at genocide of the Palestinians.

What's your excuse for killing children Israel?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-15/25-palestinian-children-killed-in-3-months-unicef/7415256
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-15/25-palestinian-children-killed-in-3-months-unicef/7415256

UNICEF cited the example on October 25 in Hebron in the West Bank of a 17-year-old girl who was "taken by IDF (Israel Defence Forces) soldiers for a search, shot with at least five bullets and killed".

UNICEF also voiced alarm over the number of Palestinian children aged between 12 and 17 detained by the Israeli army.

Targeting children must be the new way Israel doesn't "target" civilians. What a disgrace.

 

[Number37]

So much for the Arab's have it sooooo good in Israel, more lies and propaganda.

In its 2015 Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, the U.S. Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor acknowledges the “institutional and societal discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.”

Israel acts with immunity showing total disregard to UN Conventions in furtherance of its objective of destroying the Palestinians.

The U.S. State Department report documents “excessive use of force by Israeli Security Forces in a number of their interactions with Palestinian civilians, and arbitrary arrest and associated torture and abuse, often with impunity by multiple actors in the region. Residents of the occupied territories had limited ability to hold governing authorities accountable for such abuses.”

So much for 'the rockets, the rockets'. Indiscriminate, arbitrary murder of innocent people seems to be the MO of Israeli forces.

In 2015, Israeli forces killed 149 Palestinians, roughly half (72) of whom were not attempting to attack Israelis.

So much for watching and waiting and checking that no civilians are in the line of fire. More lies.
Israel doesn't distinguish between civilians and legitimate targets, everyone is fair game to the IDF.

Citing human rights reports, the State Department recognizes the Israeli military’s “heavy and unpredictable bombardments of civilian neighborhoods in a manner that failed to discriminate between legitimate targets and protected populations and caused widespread destruction of homes and civilian property.”

On what planet is it OK to brutalise children? On what planet is it OK to torture children?

The State Department acknowledges that Israeli authorities use these tactics on Palestinian minors as well. Detained Palestinian minors face “extreme violence,” including sexual assault.
Citing a U.N. Children’s Fund report, the U.S. acknowledges “mistreatment of Palestinian children in the Israeli military detention system appears to be widespread, systematic, and institutionalized.”

Violence is not limited to the Israeli government.
What sort of person sets fire to house and kills innocent people just so that they can take possession of the land. That is the lowest form of human being.

There were 214 settler attacks as of December 2 that resulted in Palestinian injuries or property damage.
Of these hundreds of attacks, the report mentions an attack in July, in which extremist Israeli settlers firebombed the home of a Palestinian family, killing an 18-month-old infant and his parents

http://www.salon.com/2016/04/18/u_s..._torture_discrimination_against_palestinians/

 

[Number37]

The only people that say Israel doesn't target civilians is Israel. Everyone in the real world can see for themselves that claim is nothing more than a lie.

Israeli aerial attacks killed two municipal workers cleaning up war damage in the Bureij refugee camp on July 11. In late July, Israeli ground forces in Khuza`a used civilians as human shields, fired at ambulances, and prevented them from reaching the wounded, and shot and killed fleeing civilians.

On top of killing innocent people, Israel targets key infrastructure for the sole purpose of inflicting suffering on the entire Palestinian population.

Israeli military operations severely damaged or destroyed 28 schools, dozens of wells, two major sewage plants, and electricity and other civil infrastructure, according to the UN. Almost all Gaza residents lost access to running water and electricity for days or weeks.

Can't brutalise a dead person but you sure can brutalise their family:

Undercover Israeli forces arrested and beat unconscious the murdered Palestinian’s cousin, a United States citizen, and later raided his uncle’s home and arrested him and other relatives, without apparent justification.

Israeli forces punitively demolished the Hebron-area family homes of three men suspected in the Israeli teens’ killing.

Israel punitively demolished the family home of an East Jerusalem man who in October drove his car into a crowded light rail station,

Or you could just kill those attempting to help Palestinians:

Israeli forces killed three men, including Hashem Abu Maria, who worked with Defense for Children International–Palestine, after a protest in Beit Ummar. None of the men posed an imminent threat to life at the time of their killing.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/israel/palestine

 

[Number37]

Not even Israeli's are safe if they refuse to toe the line of their governments brutality

Conscientious objectors
At least four conscientious objectors were imprisoned. They included Edo Ramon, imprisoned repeatedly from March for refusing to serve in the Israeli military.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countrie...-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

 

[Todman]

A Palestinian attacker fatally stabbed a 13-year-old girl in her home in a Jewish settlement in the West Bank today before being shot dead by security guards, the Israeli army said.

The army said the Palestinian killed Hallel Yaffa Ariel in her bed after breaking into her home in the Kiryat Arba settlement outside the city of Hebron.

Security personnel rushed to the house and fired on the attacker, who wounded a guard before being shot dead, the army said.

The teenager was taken to hospital in Jerusalem in critical condition and died of her wounds.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3667545/Israeli-teen-killed-West-Bank-stabbing-attack.html#ixzz4DASFd9mI

 

[cannot]

http://countercurrentnews.com/2017/...for-oil-in-syria-violating-international-law/

 

[eastfreo75]

The stumbling block has always been, and will always be, Israels refusal to allow Palestine to be recognised as a legitimate country.

Do you know the reason why?

Israel has two conditions for recognising a Palestine state.

1. That the government of Palestine doesn't have a mandate to wipe every Jew off the planet of the Earth.
2. That the Palestine recognise Israel.

That is very reasonable.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Do you know the reason why?

Israel has two conditions for recognising a Palestine state.

1. That the government of Palestine doesn't have a mandate to wipe every Jew off the planet of the Earth.
2. That the Palestine recognise Israel.

That is very reasonable.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Missing two

3) ALL Palestinians forfeit all claims to the land they previously owned in Israel before being told GTFO

4) jeruselum will for all time be only the capital of Israel, and have no connection at all to any palestinian state

 

[RW]

Do you know the reason why?

Israel has two conditions for recognising a Palestine state.

1. That the government of Palestine doesn't have a mandate to wipe every Jew off the planet of the Earth.
2. That the Palestine recognise Israel.

That is very reasonable.

More than reasonable. You can't negotiate with someone who wants to kill you.

 

[eastfreo75]

More than reasonable. You can't negotiate with someone who wants to kill you.

It's amazing how people miss that point.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Power Raid]

The stumbling block has always been, and will always be, Israels refusal to allow Palestine to be recognised as a legitimate country.

I'm not against the recognition of Palestine but I find it a little wrong to want to divide a nation based on race. It's an antiquated model creating divide.

If anyone else wanted to do something like this........it would be racist


What about a compromise of just renaming Israel to Palestine? That way Palestine get their nation without the racist element.

 

[Northalives]

I'm not against the recognition of Palestine but I find it a little wrong to want to divide a nation based on race. It's an antiquated model creating divide.

If anyone else wanted to do something like this........it would be racist


What about a compromise of just renaming Israel to Palestine? That way Palestine get their nation without the racist element.

I understand and accept your premise that dividing a nation based on race is wrong but Power Raid, unfortunately, that is a utopian ideal in these circumstances given what has happened since the mid 1940's. It has gone way, way beyond any possibility that both the Palestinians and the Israelis can live in the same "country".

In my view, for the sake of some semblance of peace, there must be a Palestine and an Israel.

 

[madmug]

I understand and accept your premise that dividing a nation based on race is wrong but Power Raid, unfortunately, that is a utopian ideal in these circumstances given what has happened since the mid 1940's. It has gone way, way beyond any possibility that both the Palestinians and the Israelis can live in the same "country".

In my view, for the sake of some semblance of peace, there must be a Palestine and an Israel.

The US dont want peace because it will reduce arms exports. The Israelis dont care about peace, they just want Palestinian land.

 

[Sainteric]

John Docker, a professor of genocide and massacre studies at the University of Sydney:
“Genocide studies is now, it seems clear, actively seeking opportunities to be complicit in Israel’s flouting of international law, not least the Fourth Geneva Convention.”
.

Lol massacre studies i am thinking if your not a comrade hippy loving hater of jews the usa and have a massive self loathing of white australia you arent going to pass that course.