It's the midfield.

[Mick Oxlong]

So many good points made here.

One id like to add (more of a gripe though) Cameron has been literally given no game time - still?

Do they just ignore the potential nightmare of Sinclair being injured?

Who cares if Darcy is not up to it yet? Its not like Sinclair is dominating in the ruck dept...

Who knows, he might rise to occasion. Who knows, Sinclair could give our mids better use instead of being fatigued af EVERY week playing solo ruck.

If its so crucial to our structure to have a ruckman who can rest up forward, then why have we persisted for nearly 2 seasons with just 1?

But he doesn’t ruck alone, Reid and Aliir have been 2nd ruck this year, Deano the Difference last year. Naismith won’t be too far away. It’s ok...Cameron can remain in the greatness that is NEAFL!

 

[SilentHunter_]

I thought that Dew was our midfield coach, not Francou?

Are you serious?

http://bfy.tw/NWyv

 

[zyzzbruh]

I feel like the turnovers in our back half are possibly exacerbated by our midfield not presenting.

Part of this is how they’re structured forward of the ball, but I also just think the effort isn’t there. They’re no proactive enough, either around the contest or in space.

This. Our midfield lacks spread. Our mids other than JK aren't complete inside mids nor outside mids. They're inbetween, and the master of none. They don't have the contested ability when needed, nor do they have the outside speed. When coming out of our defence they struggle to spread out to create an option for our defence let alone be at the feet of our half forwards who need to roll up onto their pushed up half backs, hence why Lloyd and Jones etc seem rushed and unsure (although they've genuinely spudded it a few times). Jetta was a massive part of our success. And why letting go of Rohan was massive mistake. We're not miles off but we are 4-5 specific players off being a team that can actually execute a structure.

Parker is an A grade player without being amazing, we can afford to have him. But you can't afford to have blokes like Hewett in there aswell. It's easy to be happy with and back honest players like Hewett but at the end of the day you can't afford to carry a bunch of no flair footballers just because they have heart. Need genuine scary paced outsiders, and ruthless insiders. You look at a team like Collingwood and you see the perfect balance they've got. Barely any inbetweens, they're all guns at specific roles. It's not about the amount of disposals you get. It's about the specific roles and moments you can produce with your ability, even if that's only 10-15 touches. Need flair all over the ground. Right now we're starving for it. Papley, Heeney and Dawson are the only ones we have.

 

[J_Moore]

Hewett’s good. He’s by the far the most composed with his disposals, wins a decent amount of ball, and does his bit defensively. Lacks a part of his game that makes him really stand out, but a solid b-grader that shows up every week is very valuable. All good teams have them, and need them.

 

[Dubsforsam1]

Interesting statistic put up on "On the Couch" which showed that in the contested possession after the ball exists a contest the Swans are miles behind anyone else in winning the ball. Shows that we can't win the ball one on one, two on two etc and are getting smashed once the ball hits the deck all over the park.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Interesting statistic put up on "On the Couch" which showed that in the contested possession after the ball exists a contest the Swans are miles behind anyone else in winning the ball. Shows that we can't win the ball one on one, two on two etc and are getting smashed once the ball hits the deck all over the park.

I don’t need a stat, I see it on a TV

 

[J_Moore]

I don’t need a stat, I see it on a TV

Yeah well I saw the stat on a tv

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Yeah, well I saw the stat that you saw on your TV on my iPad!

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Yeah well I saw the stat on a tvView attachment 668845

Jeez. That is really damning isn't it?

So it's not JUST winning it at the coalface but just in general...

Paul Roos set up our 2005 premiership side around the most simple principle... Win the ball. Contested or not. Just focus on winning possession of the ball.... which lead to high pressure, high tackle numbers & controlling the tempo. Simple, yes. Effective, certainly.

Somewhere we've lost this energy. This aggression. We need to focus on the reason why & fix it.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Are you serious?

http://bfy.tw/NWyv

Prior to 2017 mate.

 

[Olian]

Midfielders are getting smashed and it doesn’t help we don’t have a ruck. Sinclair battles away but he seems hampered at the moment. Naismith when fit is a good tap ruckman but is ineffective around the grounds.

Accordingly, we stuggle in the middle of the ground and so nearly half our goals are generated from defence.

 

[barry fu]

All areas are under seige.

With Grundy, Agent Smith and others of note in the outer, it has tipped us from water treader to non competitor.

 

[barry fu]

Interesting statistic put up on "On the Couch" which showed that in the contested possession after the ball exists a contest the Swans are miles behind anyone else in winning the ball. Shows that we can't win the ball one on one, two on two etc and are getting smashed once the ball hits the deck all over the park.

Alan Kohler likes this chart.

 

[takeheed]

But he doesn’t ruck alone, Reid and Aliir have been 2nd ruck this year, Deano the Difference last year. Naismith won’t be too far away. It’s ok...Cameron can remain in the greatness that is NEAFL!

Naismith won't be back till after the bye or potentially till end of year. In reality, Sinclair should be our 2nd ruck / floating forward, not Reid or Allir ideally.

The risk v reward is greater than not playing him

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Naismith won't be back till after the bye or potentially till end of year. In reality, Sinclair should be our 2nd ruck / floating forward, not Reid or Allir ideally.

The risk v reward is greater than not playing him

Sorry dude but Cameron is a dud. Let make ask you a simple question...don’t you think he’d be in the team if he was worth pursuing with? I agree that Sinclair should be our 2nd ruck, in fact if it wasn’t for injuries to Tippett and Naismith, he wouldn’t be rucking at all! The big fella has done extremely well, he’s earned his contract extension because of his performances. Another thing of note: Sinclair was struggling to get a game behind the other two, now that says even more about Cameron!

 

[Opts]

Are you serious?

http://bfy.tw/NWyv

Are YOU serious? He was with us from 2010 to the end of 2017. You might recall that he coached the midfield in the terrible 2014 GF?

 

[Opts]

Are YOU serious? He was with us from 2010 to the end of 2017.

Oh look. This says that he was the Swans STRATEGY AND MIDFIELD COACH.
Apology accepted

 

[BloodySwan]

Yeah well I saw the stat on a tvView attachment 668845

To think this used to be a trait of our team. How hard we went for the ball and our contested possessions. Horse often gets criticised for saying we need to improve our hard ball but this really shows it

 

[legend166]

There is a lot more to this than just the midfield.

Let me put an alternative hypothesis to the midfield. Its not really alternative but it shows why there is more to fix than the midfield. But the midfield has been troubling for a few years against the really good midfields.

So lets acknowledge that we have been beaten in the midfield since 2012 in lots of key matches. Geelong had more inside fifties in the 2016 prelim final. Hawthorn in 2012 gf. Bulldogs in 2016 gf. But these games were close and we were playing against the best teams. So that begs the question - is it really the midfield ?

Many have consistently said that the swans don't like losing the midfield but are better able to adjust to this than anyone else. And that has been the case since 2016.

Let me put the why to this.

Structures and personnel. Personnel - Grundy, Laidler, Richards, Rampe, Mills, Smith. Structures Rohan, Reid, Laidler

Consistently in the past the back line has marked opposition kicks. Consistently intercept marks has been one of our absolute strengths. So we might lose around the middle but we have been able to rebound from there. There were three reasons for this - one other teams rarely exited perfectly. Our midfield were pretty good at making the ball contested so it tended to have a hack kick forwards which meant the ball movement of our opponents was rarely that good.

Secondly we had players who weren't quick but read the ball in the air really bloody well. The personnel noted above with the exception of rohan and rampe are slllloooowwww. But they are all really good at reading the ball. So contested hack kicks we tended to swallow and rebound.

Three, we played a spare man back. So even when we didnt mark it we were rarely outmarked and we outnumbered when the ball hit the ground. And we could get away with this because with buddy and tippett forward teams usually wanted to have a spare defender as well. So we exited with good kicks - mills, jetta, mcveigh, lloyd. And when we didnt have a good kick with the ball they were usually able to hit centre wing and we forced a contest.

Many on here hate the spare man back thing and see this as horse's weakness. I want to put it that it has been the only thing that has been keeping us in games for the past 3 seasons.

There are lots of those who have seen the midfield failing and wanted it addressed - me amongst them. But I think a lot also want to see open attacking footy - whereas I remain of the view that our side is simply not good enough to play that way. And its only now that people seem to be coming to a realisation about the list.

I think most would readily agree that our defence has gone backwards, but it certainly hasn't gone backwards to wooden spoon levels. It's still decent. It's the midfield that has had the most precipitous drop off and considering it's where most games are won and lost it's what needs to be fixed.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

I think most would readily agree that our defence has gone backwards, but it certainly hasn't gone backwards to wooden spoon levels. It's still decent. It's the midfield that has had the most precipitous drop off and considering it's where most games are won and lost it's what needs to be fixed.

At present, this backline is at wooden spoon level, along with the mids, the forwards and the Coach. The question remains, will they all remain there?

 

[robbieando]

Oh look. This says that he was the Swans STRATEGY AND MIDFIELD COACH.
Apology accepted
View attachment 668941

https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2017-10-03/francou-departs

After four years with the Sydney Swans, midfield coach Josh Francou is departing the Club. Francou, who joined the Swans at the end of 2013 after a successful stint as head coach of North Adelaide in the SANFL, is departing for family reasons. An All-Australian who played 156 games with Port Adelaide, Francou commenced at Sydney as a development coach before taking over as midfield and stoppages coach. Sydney Swans assistant coach Brett Kirk will move from the role of forwards coach to take over the midfield and stoppages role.

https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2017-10-05/swans-congratulate-dew

The Sydney Swans congratulate Stuart Dew on his appointment as the senior coach of the Gold Coast Suns.
Dew joined the Swans at the end of the 2009 season and has held a number of coaching roles at the club, overseeing defence, development, stoppages, and most recently, senior assistant to John Longmire.

Never quote wikipedia, then try and do a victory lap. Dew was NEVER our midfield coach, just spent time as a stoppage coach, but spent most of his time as coach of the defence before becoming senior assistant. I'm sure @SlientHunter will accept your apology

 

[sataris]

Sorry dude but Cameron is a dud. Let make ask you a simple question...don’t you think he’d be in the team if he was worth pursuing with?

Aren't you advocating for COR?

I'm still baffled we let Towers go, where the players they kept are demonstrably worse.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Aren't you advocating for COR?

I'm still baffled we let Towers go, where the players they kept are demonstrably worse.

Nope, you have me confused with someone else. Having said that, he deserves the opportunity to prove himself with what could possibly be an extended run.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Aren't you advocating for COR?

I'm still baffled we let Towers go, where the players they kept are demonstrably worse.

Deano had no more upside. Cameron does. From the bits I saw of the Ressies game, he is unable to jump at the moment.

Not a Rose fan but he is more talented than Deano. Should get a block in the ones this year. If he shows something,keep him.

COR is way ahead of Deano based on the ltd games he has played.

 

[The King!]

Midfield is down , defence is down,attacks down

Wonder why

If only there was a responsible person overseeing it all