It's the midfield.

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adam waite

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#77
Agree.
And it is not as if there is nowhere else to play JPK and Parker. They both take a good mark and are good set shots for goal.
So I'd like Heeney's forward time reduced, with more in the mids.
I'd still like to try JPK as a defender.

I also now realise that we really miss McVeigh's organisational skills in the mids. Maybe that's why Horse keeps playing JPK and Parker in the mids.
One of these - Heeney, Hewett, Florent, Jones and (presumably) Rowbottom and Dawson/Blakey has to step up and take charge of the midfield group.

Another option might be to give Rampe a run. He certainly has organisational skills, but the problems is that might be robbing Peter to pay Paul, and his age. But as a transitional moveoe experiment it might be worthwhile.

As you say caesar88 we have nothing to lose
I can see where you are going with the Rampe run, but its probably a bit bold, he is the backbone of our defence at the moment, under constant pressure,as mids and his own defenders are making mistakes.
 

caesar88

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#78
I can see where you are going with the Rampe run, but its probably a bit bold, he is the backbone of our defence at the moment, under constant pressure,as mids and his own defenders are making mistakes.
Agree. It's time to let the Sir Dane to the midfield idea go. I have no idea where it originated or why it's floated around every season, but the great man has given us exactly what we all hoped.. he's bounced back to very near his unstoppable best. He and Aliir have stopped us having a record-low percentage this year. They deserve to try and carry on their form for the rest of the season.
 

adam waite

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#79
Donkey has known that our midfield needs rebuilding for ages, but do we have the hard nuts coal face in and under players? I dont know. Our ruckman stock is pretty much non existant go figure!!
 

MarkP

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#80
I believe Parker has it in him to be a 40 goal a season forward if played there permanently. He’s done as a midfielder IMO.

JPK is still good enough, but he needs to be a supporting player to the young guys who we need to take charge of the midfield. Half the number of centre bounces he attends.
Scary stuff. I don't necessarily disagree, nor fully concur, but in reality Parker had a bit of armchair ride with JPK, Jack, Hanners, ROK etc etc doing some serious heavy lifting.

What is really worrying is that George is still played as a tagger, looser to be sure the last few weeks, JPK is still the best mid by a mile and we have Heeney, Mills and Parker (using your metric) that probably won't fill any void in the guts.

Add to that Parker is literally entering his football prime in age at 26 years old then we have critical structural issues if you are correct and the the other 2 kids don't suddenly grow a pair and roll up the sleeves and do some dirty hard work by choice or design.

And Parker, Mills and Heeney with the exception of Franklin are probably the best paid in the team. So in reality our coin is tied up with a back flanker and two forward pocket types that run through the guts every so often. Can't say that is ideal.
 

caesar88

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#81
Scary stuff. I don't necessarily disagree, nor fully concur, but in reality Parker had a bit of armchair ride with JPK, Jack, Hanners, ROK etc etc doing some serious heavy lifting.

What is really worrying is that George is still played as a tagger, looser to be sure the last few weeks, JPK is still the best mid by a mile and we have Heeney, Mills and Parker (using your metric) that probably won't fill any void in the guts.

Add to that Parker is literally entering his football prime in age at 26 years old then we have critical structural issues if you are correct and the the other 2 kids don't suddenly grow a pair and roll up the sleeves and do some dirty hard work by choice or design.

And Parker, Mills and Heeney with the exception of Franklin are probably the best paid in the team. So in reality our coin is tied up with a back flanker and two forward pocket types that run through the guts every so often. Can't say that is ideal.
I hope you're wrong regarding Mills and what he's being paid. Not because I don't rate him, I just don't know why we would give a 21 year old whose a local a big money contract. Heeney is different because I understand every club in the comp would want him on their list and I still think he's the most overall talented player we've had at our club since Goodes.

Put Mills aside as a midfielder, since a) we're nowhere near him even being played as such, and b) we don't even know if he'll be any good in that role. Parker I've already spoke about. Still think he becomes an All Australian-level player again by being a permanent forward.

Which leaves Heeney and Hewett. Not sure either can ever single-handedly anchor a midfield like JPK did for many years, but in tandem, they could be just as effective. Not necessarily at bustling and crashing packs, but reading and roving from stoppages, definitely. We really need to end Hewett's crappenticeship as a tagger and just see what he can do with a full season of being unleashed to just focus on winning the footy. We could have a total gun under our noses and not even know it. Increase their time at the stoppages and centre bounces and decrease JPK and Parker's.

Then slowly give more midfield time to Dawson and Rowbottom who are coming through but not yet able to play full midfield minutes. They can certainly play enough though to contribute and learn!

That'd be my plan of attack going forward.
 

sataris

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#82
Agree. It's time to let the Sir Dane to the midfield idea go. I have no idea where it originated or why it's floated around every season, but the great man has given us exactly what we all hoped.. he's bounced back to very near his unstoppable best. He and Aliir have stopped us having a record-low percentage this year. They deserve to try and carry on their form for the rest of the season.
Rampe was drafted as a mid wasn't he?
 

Kirkswan

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#84
- We're the worst turnover team in the competition, lead by Lloyd and Thurlow, who are meant to be our distributors off half back.
Hey legend166, liked this post a fair bit, but was just wondering...

If the player receiving the disposal drops it, turns his back, doesn't run on it, doesn't protect the mark or whatever else, does it still count as a turnover by the player initiating the kick or hand pass? Or does it count against the person who made the actual error?
 
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Moderator #85
Think it'll play out that the young player that will be the heir to Kennedy will be Hewett in the near future, not Heeney, Parker nor Mills. He has the most latent inside contested ball-winning ability which occasionally shows itself i.e. smashed Sidebottom at the SCG last year and beat Tom Mitchell in contested ball and clearances a few weeks later (They were 1st and 2nd in the Brownlow).
 

caesar88

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#86
Think it'll play out that the young player that will be the heir to Kennedy will be Hewett in the near future, not Heeney, Parker nor Mills. He has the most latent inside contested ball-winning ability which occasionally shows itself i.e. smashed Sidebottom at the SCG last year and beat Tom Mitchell in contested ball and clearances a few weeks later (They were 1st and 2nd in the Brownlow).
Hewett is awesome, albeit we haven't seen his full potential yet. He was the second-best midfielder on the ground last week in a game that also featured names like Josh Kennedy, Lachie Neale and Isaac Heeney. Should never be played as a tagger again IMO.
 

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Moderator #87
Hewett is awesome, albeit we haven't seen his full potential yet. He was the second-best midfielder on the ground last week in a game that also featured names like Josh Kennedy, Lachie Neale and Isaac Heeney. Should never be played as a tagger again IMO.
Agree, he’s a genuine offensive weapon. The tagger role can be used to transition in someone else.
 

caesar88

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#88
Agree, he’s a genuine offensive weapon. The tagger role can be used to transition in someone else.
Preferably no one. I think that's our biggest problem, we're already set up too defensively around stoppages. We need blokes worrying about the ball, not their opponents.
 
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Moderator #89
Preferably no one. I think that's our biggest problem, we're already set up too defensively around stoppages. We need blokes worrying about the ball, not their opponents.
Nah still think having someone tag is valuable in the sense that the opposition mid can lead the tagger to the ball and get them into the game more than otherwise. Reckon that factored in Jack becoming a gun initially and now Hewett improving, neither were blessed with a lot of natural ability as a junior.

Can't say I have too much knowledge in the nuances of stoppage structures, I'm unsure of a defensive stoppage setup implies, perhaps aimed at keeping the ball inside, not allowing it to get into space and getting repeat stoppages? If we're trying to do that we're not doing it very well because opponents seem to be burning us on the spread quite easily. Reckon our mids do tend to gravitate too much towards the ball and hence are very handball happy.
 
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#91
.. and his numbers have been going south.

His support around him has gone south

I mean Kennedy is still great but he isn’t at his peak

Peak Hannebery peak Jack Mitchell gone

No old man Goodes to run through

Parker’s has had more to do with less support
 

RUNVS

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#92
Our problem, our inside 50's shows how weak our midfield is

(inside 50 differential compared to opponent)

1. Port Adelaide - 10.1
2. Collingwood - 8.5
3. Western Bulldogs - 8.5
4. Melbourne - 5.4
5. Brisbane - 4.5
6. Richmond - 4.0
7. Fremantle - 1.2
8. Essendon - 1.1
9. GWS - 0.5
10. Adelaide - 0.3

11. Geelong - 0
12. St Kilda - -0.2
13. Hawthorn - -1.4
14. North Melbourne - -3.6
15. Gold Coast - -6.3
16. West Coast - -7.0
17. Carlton - -12.1
18. Sydney - -13.5


So we are giving away -13.5 inside 50's every match compared to our opponents. The only team were are vaguely comparable to is Carlton. Even Gold Coast midfield is doing a lot better than ours.
 

caesar88

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#93
Our problem, our inside 50's shows how weak our midfield is

(inside 50 differential compared to opponent)

1. Port Adelaide - 10.1
2. Collingwood - 8.5
3. Western Bulldogs - 8.5
4. Melbourne - 5.4
5. Brisbane - 4.5
6. Richmond - 4.0
7. Fremantle - 1.2
8. Essendon - 1.1
9. GWS - 0.5
10. Adelaide - 0.3

11. Geelong - 0
12. St Kilda - -0.2
13. Hawthorn - -1.4
14. North Melbourne - -3.6
15. Gold Coast - -6.3
16. West Coast - -7.0
17. Carlton - -12.1
18. Sydney - -13.5


So we are giving away -13.5 inside 50's every match compared to our opponents. The only team were are vaguely comparable to is Carlton. Even Gold Coast midfield is doing a lot better than ours.
Yep it’s only our efficiency inside 50 that has kept us in games/won us the game on Friday night. There have been a lot of games this year where our mids have actually got their hands on the ball a lot, but done very little with it (the Adelaide game in particular comes to mind). Same as the other night. You have to commend JPK, Parker, Hewett etc for their games, but at no point during that match did I feel like our midfield was on top, or causing our opponents any headaches.

But still, a relief to see an improved effort in winning some contested footy.
 
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