Its time for a change of Schimma like proprtions..

alf24

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Thread starter #1
There a similarities to our current on field predicament with the 1988-1992 period.

In that time we came off a terrible finals appearance in which we were thrashed by Melbourne 1997 (WCE in 2012), and we meandered over the next 5 seasons without playing finals and finishing with close to a 50/50 record most years (apart from 1988 where we well and truly sucked).

This current group has some reasonable talent but I am afraid they will never lead us to a flag.

We also had some good talent between 1988-1992 which were coming close to the end of their careers or were deemed not good enough when Pagan hit the ground running in 1993.

In no particular order the current crop who I feel we need to re-assess and possibly trade into the draft / and/ or with other teams (as we are 3-4 years from being a competitive finals team) are as follows:

Adams
Bastinac
Ziebell
McKenzie
Anthony
Jacobs
Tarrant
Mullet

When you consider players such as Larkin, German, McCarthy, Clarkson, Dwyer, R. Smith could not get a regular game under Pagan, it makes you think that the above players would struggle under a new coach who does not have his favourites.

Granted we don't have the Key Forward options such as a Longmire or Carey on our list at present but I really think a different coach with a decent game plan could transform our list just as Pagan did in 1993.

Unfortunately I don't believe our current administration has the balls to make a decision like the board did in pre-season 93 which eventually reaped dividends in the form of the 96 flag and competitive finals appearances in between.
 

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alf24

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Thread starter #3
I think we need to look outside the square.
Scott hasn't worked and I reckon you will find the above players who don't work hard enough will fall by way of natural attrition under a new coach.
If we wait till Horse's contract runs out at Sydney the current list will miss the boat.
I don't know if an untried assistant will do the trick but has worked with Hinkley at Port.
Maybe Tudor worth a go?
 

Hearts to hearts

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#5
I think we need to look outside the square.
Scott hasn't worked and I reckon you will find the above players who don't work hard enough will fall by way of natural attrition under a new coach.
If we wait till Horse's contract runs out at Sydney the current list will miss the boat.
I don't know if an untried assistant will do the trick but has worked with Hinkley at Port.
Maybe Tudor worth a go?
Gosh, given Tudor's magic touch has been so positive this year, I'd love to see him get the reins. :stern look

Until this year, I was feeling really confident the trend was going in the right direction. I don't agree Scott hasn't worked, and the team is nowhere near Schimma-level pastings any more. But something is happening this year that has stuffed things up and they need to work out what and fix it quickly or heads will roll.
 

Only Forwards

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#6
Who is going to front the cash to the club to pay him out?

You?

When a new coach comes in they bring their own assistants, this means the finishing up of other assistants.

So cash to Scott for nothing.
Cash to assistants for nothing.
Cash to the new Coach
Cash to the new assistants

2 years ago we failed to make a profit because (excuse me while i paraphrase) "upgraded too many rookies"

The idea that we are paying out the coach is pure fantasy.
 

alf24

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Thread starter #7
JB & his white knights can pay scott out.

They made the decision, they should admit they were wrong.

The members shouldn't have to pay for their stupidity. Cut your losses , pay him out like other clubs do.

I am sick and tired of people accepting the status quo because JB said Scott is a nice bloke and Laidley was a prick.....etc etc... tow the company line.

I don't have the answers just saying we are in for a wasted generation where we will not be challenging.

We could still lose at least 4 games (Hawks/Crows/Cats/Blues). And I'm not confident against Dogs/GWS they way we are hot and cold.

There will be a massive backlash at the end of this year where supporters will not renew memberships if scott is still coach and we stagger into the finals and get thumped again, or even worse miss the finals.

Are you prepared to keep Scott should that happen?
 

Only Forwards

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#8
take a step back.

You really want to go to men who have poured millions into the club and ask for what is likely to be millions more to replace a coach and his set up mid contract?

That is the course of action you want us to take.

Like it lump it. it is there, we may have over committed but we simply cannot jump off now. You know all that debt we've been erasing yeah we pile that shit back on so quick its not funny if we sack him now.
 

Only Forwards

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#10
Gosh, given Tudor's magic touch has been so positive this year, I'd love to see him get the reins. :stern look

Until this year, I was feeling really confident the trend was going in the right direction. I don't agree Scott hasn't worked, and the team is nowhere near Schimma-level pastings any more. But something is happening this year that has stuffed things up and they need to work out what and fix it quickly or heads will roll.
You have so much more tact than I do.
 

alf24

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Thread starter #11
If we maintain the status quo we run the risk of losing that amount through lost memberships from continuing crappy performances.

You don't keep someone one on who is not performing, players or coach, doesn't matter what it costs.

I have worked for many companies in senior management roles who have done the same thing, reluctant to make the change because it will cost too much to pay someone out.

It always ends up costing you more in the long run.
 

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As much as I'm royally fluffed off with us and Brad this year we have to let the year play out before trying to make him walk away with a settlement.

We win the majority of remaining games and push to a prelim and there's something to work with.

Keep up the current output and it starts turning to hoping Brad's sense of professional pride influences him to negotiate an early exit.

Have to sit tight and see how it goes right now. Hopefully in a year we're spruiking how great is because he's turned it right around and we're premiers or heading towards one in a hurry.
 

alf24

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Thread starter #13
Ziebell is clearly struggling.
I don't blame him as his body has let him down a number of times, same with Patch and Taz.
He reminded me so much of Bucks when he started. Had the strut, massive kick.
All the above have mainly had Scott as their coach and the message aint getting through.
Another poor year they will have no currency in any trade negotiations.
 

tazaa

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#14
There was a story printed before the Collingwood game in 2012 about how JB and Brad were golfing buddies and that appointing him was easier because JB knew the personal drive and ambition Scott had. His presentation took 1 minute before JB stopped him and said the roles yours.

The piece printed in the papers was meant to be a perfect match, the right fit, the road to success type story yet 2 years on and 5 years with no results, it reeks of sheer incompetence by the board.
Did we get the right man? Was JB right in actively pursuing a non North Melbourne person to freshen up the place and effectively shut the door on Horse and Blakey?
Right now 5 years on from JYD's resignation we have turned the list over and revolutionised the squad. Yet the results are the same.

The team can perform. But who is capable of installing the consitency into this mob to do it each week. What a cluster-**** bunch of footballers to manage. Major chicken-egg crisis into whose fault it is.
Unity wont cut it for this club now as that unison is just another get out clause for those under performing each week. Run the comb over every fit player. For once a hands on business approach to each individual wouldnt be so bad. There are no chances left and quite frankly no one is deserving of them.
 

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#15
JB has done great things for the club, but he isn't infallible.

We ****** up royally with the extension that at the time was simply unwarranted. There's not much we can do about that, but there are things that can reasonably be tweaked within. The list being the obvious start point. There are several players that are now simply depth along with a number of key players whose bodies aren't up to the rigours of AFL. I can see us turning over up to 7 or 8 in this offseason and that would be a significant rejuvenation of an emotionally tired group.

There is not much that can realistically be done with the head coach, but it will have to come from Walsh or Brayshaw having a quiet word in the ear that changes MUST be made with our matchday approach.

Hopefully we have enough flexibility to change, although I'm not particularly optimistic anymore.
 

Event Horizon

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#16
Did we get the right man? Was JB right in actively pursuing a non North Melbourne person to freshen up the place and effectively shut the door on Horse and Blakey?
I am not sure your facts are 100% correct on this one. Horse was never in the race. As soon as his name popped up as being likely interview candidate, Sydney immediately announced their new "succession" plan for him to take over from Roos. Blakey was settled in Sydney with his family and wasn't really an option, I think you'll find. The only other name that was strongly linked to us was Hardwick, and despite how frustrated we are with Brad at the minute, I think we dodged a bullet there.

I do agree though, that the 2016 extension was premature.
 
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#21
We have a huge game against Hawthorn and we have another of these Scott is crap , must go threads.

Just as I refuse to give Scott kudos at this point in time( to quote the other thread), I do not see the need for another Scott bitch thread.

If NM beat Hawthorn ( and footy is a funny game), a whole wave of punters will be saying how Scott is the best thing since sliced bread.
 
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I am not sure your facts are 100% correct on this one. Horse was never in the race. As soon as his name popped up as being likely interview candidate, Sydney immediately announced their new "succession" plan for him to take over from Roos. Blakey was settled in Sydney with his family and wasn't really an option, I think you'll find. The only other name that was strongly linked to us was Hardwick, and despite how frustrated we are with Brad at the minute, I think we dodged a bullet there.

I do agree though, that the 2016 extension was premature.
Correct re Horse. Although if we had put the same ferocity into his chase as Buckley's then who knows? Think we were a little gunshy after pulling out all stops in our one unproven coaching egg in basket failure. I'm not personally sold on Horse. Took over a proven finals quality team and has the benefits of recruiting concessions and COLA. Could he have pulled the same tricks coaching the Bulldogs 2013 list?

Blakey hadn't and hasn't done anything to suggest he's a superior option. Did he apply for the dogs, eagles, port or melbourne jobs of late to imply he's even trying to become a senior coach? Fwiw haven't found him the sharpest tool in the shed. Others may see it differently.

The one that got away was Hinkley. My opinion only is that in narrowing focus only to Buckley we put off self-respecting candidates like Hinkley later entering the selection process.
 

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#23
Why is it that when things go awry football supporters in general always blame the coach but when clubs are winning the players get the praise? Doesn't make sense to me that approach.

And in our case why is it that we have beaten three of the current top 4 in Port, Fremantle and Sydney, yet have really only had one bad game that we should have won, being this loss to Brisbane? Of our other losses, Collingwood and Geelong are higher placed than us, Essendon were bound to come out defiantly in round 1, Gold Coast is level with us on the ladder and Adelaide in Adelaide was always going to be a hard ask. (Make no mistake, they are no duds, Adelaide, as Port has just found out.)

I am not making excuses; rather I am trying to put some perspective on our performance this year.

If instead of beating Port, Freo and Sydney, we had instead beaten Essendon, Adelaide and Brisbane (this most recent game) I would certainly be saying we really have not improved and maybe it is time to make a change.

But we have improved, because firstly we have beaten three of the top four and secondly we remain in the 8.

My view is that Saturdays exceptionally disappointing performance is in the mindset of the players. In my view our club is not yet mature enough to be able to be consistently up at the level we need to be win these sorts of games and prove ourselves to be ready to really challenge. We are so much like the Geelong of 2005 to early 2007 when *bomber *thompson (must never forget the *) was in the firing sights at Geelong. He could have easily got the flick and the era that Geelong has just experienced may never have happened.

We need someone within the playing group now to give the players the Paul Chapman spray, ironically given after we beat them in the David Hale 8 goal game in 2007. From that moment on they never looked back, handing out some horrendous floggings immediately after to I think, Richmond and Melbourne.
 

alf24

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Thread starter #24
Why is it that when things go awry football supporters in general always blame the coach but when clubs are winning the players get the praise? Doesn't make sense to me that approach.

And in our case why is it that we have beaten three of the current top 4 in Port, Fremantle and Sydney, yet have really only had one bad game that we should have won, being this loss to Brisbane? Of our other losses, Collingwood and Geelong are higher placed than us, Essendon were bound to come out defiantly in round 1, Gold Coast is level with us on the ladder and Adelaide in Adelaide was always going to be a hard ask. (Make no mistake, they are no duds, Adelaide, as Port has just found out.)

I am not making excuses; rather I am trying to put some perspective on our performance this year.

If instead of beating Port, Freo and Sydney, we had instead beaten Essendon, Adelaide and Brisbane (this most recent game) I would certainly be saying we really have not improved and maybe it is time to make a change.

But we have improved, because firstly we have beaten three of the top four and secondly we remain in the 8.

My view is that Saturdays exceptionally disappointing performance is in the mindset of the players. In my view our club is not yet mature enough to be able to be consistently up at the level we need to be win these sorts of games and prove ourselves to be ready to really challenge. We are so much like the Geelong of 2005 to early 2007 when *bomber *thompson (must never forget the *) was in the firing sights at Geelong. He could have easily got the flick and the era that Geelong has just experienced may never have happened.

We need someone within the playing group now to give the players the Paul Chapman spray, ironically given after we beat them in the David Hale 8 goal game in 2007. From that moment on they never looked back, handing out some horrendous floggings immediately after to I think, Richmond and Melbourne.
Correction; Hale didn't kick 8 in 2007, from memory that was 2009 or 2010, but agree no one has the cajones to stand up and say anything otherwise they might be excluded from the next round of sound jammer
 
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