Opinion It's Time For The Whole Draft System To Be Reviewed & Repaired

[kaiserchief13]

IMO WA & SA should have academies too.

WA teams should have an extra home game to make up for all the flying they do.

Players should still be able to win the Brownlow even if they get suspended - missing games will hurt them anyway.

Part of what makes the AFL so interesting is the disparities between the clubs. There is always something to talk about.

Its a fact afl wants to help nsw and qld clubs be successful on field so they 'grow the game'. Afl doesn't care about sa and wa clubs as they are afl states already.

Afl cares much more about increasing revenue than an even competition

 

[kaiserchief13]

Its also probably no coincidence Freo WC Adelaide and Port to an extent have been poor for years. Vic clubs get a lot of players requesting to move there or move between clubs there. Nsw and qld clubs get talent cheaply.

 

[Scotland]

Its also probably no coincidence Freo WC Adelaide and Port to an extent have been poor for years. Vic clubs get a lot of players requesting to move there or move between clubs there. Nsw and qld clubs get talent cheaply.

The fortunes of these clubs aren't really similar.

Port were crap around the time WC were when WC/GWS came in. They've been pretty good for 10-12 yeas now.

Adelaide self destructed after the 2017 GF.

WC self destructed from the second half of 2021.

 

[Sheepey]

Because the AFL are run by idiots who would only screw it up if they ran the academies up here. btw, another top 5 draft pick coming our way this season. Hopefully on draft night, the camera pans to victorian clubs when we trade pick 48,51,52,55,61,63,64 for a pick 3 in the draft. Especially on the Saints. I know they seethe more than most other clubs do over our academies.

Well at least you're honest about the unfair advantage it gives the Lions. Thanks for agreeing with me that it's farcical.

You've never understood because you've never bothered to do the minimal research required to find out what happened when the AFL ran these academies in the past.

Whatever so-called "problems" there have been with AFL-run academies in the past, they’ve been issues of execution, not of concept. If the AFL is truly committed to both a fair competition and the stated purpose of the academies, to boost participation and provide a pathway to the elite level, then it should take full control of them.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I support WC but also other WA teams that aren't Freo. Western Force have 17 players that have played international rugby. Only one of them is from WA and the overall squad has 3 or 4 WA players.

The rugby heartland is New South Wales and Queensland, which only have one team each.

Perth Glory have half a dozen or so WA players.

I don't know where the bulk of soccer players come from, but I'm going to assume they're from Sydney and Melbourne. If those cities produce more than three teams worth of players each (noting international imports play a big role in the A-League and take up some spots) then of course there will be excess players to go elsewhere. But even so, how long has it been since Perth Glory won a title?

Perth Wildcats don't have a full roster as it is the off season but only have one WA player (who emigrated from Sudan as a kid).

You can copy and paste a lot of what I wrote above for soccer, except Sydney has only one team, Melbourne has two, and international imports play an even bigger role in the NBL.

If the AFL had proper player movement rules and a proper salary cap the landscape would be very different. Last year the LA Lakers had LeBron James and Anthony Davis, two of the top 15 players based on the selected All NBA teams. Now after an infamous trade they have LeBron James and Luka Doncic, two of the same top 15 players. But they don't have Anthony Davis. The rules don't allow you to just keep adding players who would like to go there.

That's because you have a lot fewer players on a basketball team, so one player can take up a huge percentage of cap space compared to the AFL. This NBA salary agreement facilitates duos whereas the previous one facilitated trios, like the Miami Heat big three (and they still added Ray Allen on top). Moving cities also is less of an issue when you're getting $20 million a year compared to $1m.

The Sydney Swans were fine before they ever drafted Heeney and Mills. Sydney haven't been a basket case since the early to mid 90s.

That's an argument against academies, not against the draft. In the era before the draft, they struggled. There is nothing to compare it to since the early 90s when clubs actually started taking the draft seriously.

Sydney made B2B GFs 20 years ago with Jason Ball, Barry Hall, Paul Williams, Darren Jolly, Ted Richards. Stuart Maxfield unlucky after playing there so long. Then they made GFs in 2012, 2014, 2016 with Rhyce Shaw, Marty Mattner, Shane Mumford, Josh Kennedy, Kurt Tippett and some guy called Lance Franklin. That's a whole lot of players actively wanting to go play footy in Sydney for the Swans.

All of that started with them having a good side from the mid-90s onwards because they drafted well, so they could keep attracting good players. If they didn't have a good side, how many players would have wanted to go there? We don't know I guess, but I think it's clear that players move where they think they'll find success.

 

[kaiserchief13]

The fortunes of these clubs aren't really similar.

Port were crap around the time WC were when WC/GWS came in. They've been pretty good for 10-12 yeas now.

Adelaide self destructed after the 2017 GF.

WC self destructed from the second half of 2021.

None of Port/WC/Freo/Adelaide have made a grand final since 2018 though. Unlikely any of them makes it this year either that's 7 years where almost 25% of the league hasn't made the grand final. Sydney 2 grand finals in last few years and Brisbane 2 grand finals in a row. It'll take at least 5 years for this rort after it's changed to have an effect as well because a number of players are already at the clubs

 

[Pacman82]

Well who could possibly blame Lloydy for not wanting his son to play for the Dons in a few years time.

 

[Scotland]

None of Port/WC/Freo/Adelaide have made a grand final since 2018 though. Unlikely any of them makes it this year either that's 7 years where almost 25% of the league hasn't made the grand final. Sydney 2 grand finals in last few years and Brisbane 2 grand finals in a row. It'll take at least 5 years for this rort after it's changed to have an effect as well because a number of players are already at the clubs

Carlton, Essendon, Freo, Gold Coast, Hawthorn, North, St Kilda haven't made a GF since 2018 either.

 

[BigHuddo]

Only just stumbled upon this. Just wondering if anyone could tell me whats wrong with it? If it's got anything to do with Bassat's rant from last year than im done.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Carlton, Essendon, Freo, Gold Coast, Hawthorn, North, St Kilda haven't made a GF since 2018 either.

Exclude Freo as I already included them. That's 5 out of 10 Vic teams so 50% of Vic teams have and 1/4 NSW/QLD teams haven't so 75% have.

 

[Colby2Sheez]

Yes it does need to be reviewed.

Especially so we (North) get back our first round selection from the Tigers that our bonehead list manager inexplicably gave away!!

 

[Scotland]

The rugby heartland is New South Wales and Queensland, which only have one team each.

Australian rules football heartland is Victoria, where most AFL players come from. Super rugby is provincial. There is club rugby in Qld, NSW and WA as there is in the states without Super Rugby teams.

Because we have a draft system 14/22 of the afl.com.au SA SOO side don't play in SA, 7/22 of the Vic side don't play in Vic and 15/22 WA players don't play in WA.

I don't know where the bulk of soccer players come from, but I'm going to assume they're from Sydney and Melbourne. If those cities produce more than three teams worth of players each (noting international imports play a big role in the A-League and take up some spots) then of course there will be excess players to go elsewhere. But even so, how long has it been since Perth Glory won a title?

Glory haven't won a title for 20 years. Not a function of availability of local talent though.

The key phrase is there. Excess players go elsewhere. The A-League isn't dominated by Melbourne Victory and Sydney FC. Central Coast and Brisbane have 3 titles, Adelaide, Newcastle, Melbourne City and Western United have 1 each. Auckland a big show this year in their first season.

There is no draft but teams which do not have enough local talent to produce title winning teams win titles.

You can copy and paste a lot of what I wrote above for soccer, except Sydney has only one team, Melbourne has two, and international imports play an even bigger role in the NBL.

As above. The best basketball players in Australia are on NBL rosters. Matthew Dellavedova - from Victoria - just left Melbourne United to join Sydney. Why is that?

That's because you have a lot fewer players on a basketball team, so one player can take up a huge percentage of cap space compared to the AFL. This NBA salary agreement facilitates duos whereas the previous one facilitated trios, like the Miami Heat big three (and they still added Ray Allen on top). Moving cities also is less of an issue when you're getting $20 million a year compared to $1m.

It's because there are max contracts and there is a real salary cap. Ray Allen joined the Heat at age 37 for no money. Absolutely nothing stopping teams from signing Isaac Smith types in the AFL.

Yes having smaller rosters plays a part but you can look at any NBA roster and see what moves they can make. The Lakers aren't adding say Kyrie Irving for $38m because they can't.

Meanwhile, which AFL team can't afford to sign Oscar Allen this year? Or Zak Butters next year, The answer is none, because the rules are so flimsy.

That's an argument against academies, not against the draft. In the era before the draft, they struggled. There is nothing to compare it to since the early 90s when clubs actually started taking the draft seriously.

Plenty of teams struggled in the 80s when it was zones then the 90s when the draft took over then in the 2000s and 2010s. Sydney struggled in the 1990s because the gloss of the 1980s with Warwick Capper and pink Lamborghinis etc. had worn off and no one wanted to put time and money in. It's irrelevant to today now that it's a $100m a year organisation.

All of that started with them having a good side from the mid-90s onwards because they drafted well, so they could keep attracting good players. If they didn't have a good side, how many players would have wanted to go there? We don't know I guess, but I think it's clear that players move where they think they'll find success.

Most of the guys I mentioned moved to Sydney for opportunity. Some for money, Buddy for a weird mixture of being the highest paid player in the comp and also out of the spotlight. Players move clubs for lots of reasons. Why did Jack Graham join WC? We aren't very good, he isn't highly paid and he isn't from WA.

The way the AFL is moving I lean towards clubs being given rookie 'slots' each year. There's only one Harley Reid in 2023 and he's going to get 3 years x $200k or whatever it is going in the draft. So why not just let teams negotiate with players at the combine? Give clubs something like 3 or 4 max rookie slots on their list. I think you would find the motivation for players to all want to go to the same few clubs would decrease if there were financial incentives to do otherwise in place.

 

[iameviljez]

Its also probably no coincidence Freo WC Adelaide and Port to an extent have been poor for years. Vic clubs get a lot of players requesting to move there or move between clubs there. Nsw and qld clubs get talent cheaply.

Luke Jackson, Tim Kelly, Shai Bolton, Jordan Clark.

Jordan Dawson, JHF, Ratugolea, Aliir, Rioli, Finlayson.

West Coast and Adelaide basically blew themselves up anyway

 

[iameviljez]

Australian rules football heartland is Victoria, where most AFL players come from. Super rugby is provincial. There is club rugby in Qld, NSW and WA as there is in the states without Super Rugby teams.

Because we have a draft system 14/22 of the afl.com.au SA SOO side don't play in SA, 7/22 of the Vic side don't play in Vic and 15/22 WA players don't play in WA.



Glory haven't won a title for 20 years. Not a function of availability of local talent though.

The key phrase is there. Excess players go elsewhere. The A-League isn't dominated by Melbourne Victory and Sydney FC. Central Coast and Brisbane have 3 titles, Adelaide, Newcastle, Melbourne City and Western United have 1 each. Auckland a big show this year in their first season.

There is no draft but teams which do not have enough local talent to produce title winning teams win titles.



As above. The best basketball players in Australia are on NBL rosters. Matthew Dellavedova - from Victoria - just left Melbourne United to join Sydney. Why is that?



It's because there are max contracts and there is a real salary cap. Ray Allen joined the Heat at age 37 for no money. Absolutely nothing stopping teams from signing Isaac Smith types in the AFL.

Yes having smaller rosters plays a part but you can look at any NBA roster and see what moves they can make. The Lakers aren't adding say Kyrie Irving for $38m because they can't.

Meanwhile, which AFL team can't afford to sign Oscar Allen this year? Or Zak Butters next year, The answer is none, because the rules are so flimsy.



Plenty of teams struggled in the 80s when it was zones then the 90s when the draft took over then in the 2000s and 2010s. Sydney struggled in the 1990s because the gloss of the 1980s with Warwick Capper and pink Lamborghinis etc. had worn off and no one wanted to put time and money in. It's irrelevant to today now that it's a $100m a year organisation.



Most of the guys I mentioned moved to Sydney for opportunity. Some for money, Buddy for a weird mixture of being the highest paid player in the comp and also out of the spotlight. Players move clubs for lots of reasons. Why did Jack Graham join WC? We aren't very good, he isn't highly paid and he isn't from WA.

The way the AFL is moving I lean towards clubs being given rookie 'slots' each year. There's only one Harley Reid in 2023 and he's going to get 3 years x $200k or whatever it is going in the draft. So why not just let teams negotiate with players at the combine? Give clubs something like 3 or 4 max rookie slots on their list. I think you would find the motivation for players to all want to go to the same few clubs would decrease if there were financial incentives to do otherwise in place.

The other major factor is that players don’t have a culture of sacrificing salary to stay together in North American sports.

 

[Bird Man]

I think we are slowly seeing the AFL implement academies like the NRL. There are just to many clubs in victoria to make it work out.

would it work out if the draft was broken into states, for example the best 20 Vic kids are selected by victorian clubs (protected) others states get their academies kids, then are allowed to draft after the next round (unprotected)

just spit balling here but i agree the system is so broken we might as well be in the 80s again with some clubs having access to the best players.

 

[iameviljez]

Have said it before but state-based drafting is the way to go.

Let the clubs / state bodies control their academies and development and they reap the rewards.

First pick from the state goes to the lower ranked club and then they take turns.

Vic has 10 clubs but produces half the draftees anyway.

3 picks each club (30 in Vic, 6 in each of WA, SA, NSW/ACT and Qld/NT).

Anybody after those 54 players goes into an all-in rookie draft to go to any club nationally.

That would absolutely screw the Northern clubs and Tasmania, and hugely benefit the WA sides in particular.

If I were running Freo, WCE, Port or Adelaide, I would immediately ensure that there was a huge amount of club resources tipped into under-18 development for the most promising players in my state. Why not? You're going to get one in every two of them.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Yes it does need to be reviewed.

Especially so we (North) get back our first round selection from the Tigers that our bonehead list manager inexplicably gave away!!

Many thanks for that. I do think you guys will improve with a significant leap. Hoping it's next year though as salivating over the thought of 2 top 5 picks again in this coming draft.

Once again, many thanks.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

None of Port/WC/Freo/Adelaide have made a grand final since 2018 though. Unlikely any of them makes it this year either that's 7 years where almost 25% of the league hasn't made the grand final. Sydney 2 grand finals in last few years and Brisbane 2 grand finals in a row. It'll take at least 5 years for this rort after it's changed to have an effect as well because a number of players are already at the clubs

7 years- what a strange timeframe to pick. Oh I see, that’s because in the 7 years before that West Coast, Freo and Adelaide ALL made a grand final and port couple of years before that. Doesn’t fit the narrative though does it.

 

[LordLucifer]

Only just stumbled upon this. Just wondering if anyone could tell me whats wrong with it? If it's got anything to do with Bassat's rant from last year than im done.

Perish the thought !!

 

[kaiserchief13]

7 years- what a strange timeframe to pick. Oh I see, that’s because in the 7 years before that West Coast, Freo and Adelaide ALL made a grand final and port couple of years before that. Doesn’t fit the narrative though does it.

When did academies begin?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

That would absolutely screw the Northern clubs and Tasmania, and hugely benefit the WA sides in particular.

If I were running Freo, WCE, Port or Adelaide, I would immediately ensure that there was a huge amount of club resources tipped into under-18 development for the most promising players in my state. Why not? You're going to get one in every two of them.

There’s now more guns coming out of the northern academies than WA or SA.

And they’re already going straight to the northern clubs.

Maybe WA and SA might fix their development systems.

 

[iameviljez]

There’s now more guns coming out of the northern academies than WA or SA.

And they’re already going straight to the northern clubs.

Maybe WA and SA might fix their development systems.

I think there is reason to look at the development systems for WA and SA, but that doesn't mean that the whole drafting system needs to be absolutely torn apart.

After all, WA and SA have been strong footballing states for many years, and over-reacting to this dip could create many more problems than it solves. The systems that gave us Buddy Franklin and Lachie Neale aren't so far gone that SA and WA need a huge boost like that.

I think it's not a coincidence that the state leagues run the development system in SA and WA, and the AFL effectively oversees the pathway in Victoria, and Vic does far better. After all, where's the incentive to develop great young players at, say, Norwood, if you'll just lose them at age 18?

 

[Cleric]

Have said it before but state-based drafting is the way to go.

Let the clubs / state bodies control their academies and development and they reap the rewards.

First pick from the state goes to the lower ranked club and then they take turns.

Vic has 10 clubs but produces half the draftees anyway.

3 picks each club (30 in Vic, 6 in each of WA, SA, NSW/ACT and Qld/NT).

Anybody after those 54 players goes into an all-in rookie draft to go to any club nationally.

I actually agree with you.
The way I would do it is this.
Each club gets their first pick from their own state. After the first round they all go back into the main pool where teams can draft for needs.

 

[Cleric]

There’s now more guns coming out of the northern academies than WA or SA.

And they’re already going straight to the northern clubs.

Maybe WA and SA might fix their development systems.

That brings up a whole different set of issues that also need to be addressed. WA massively underperformes with talent production.
Per capita, SA is just behind Vic in getting kids drafted, but per capita WA has fallen well below both of them.

The issue is that the AFL funds Jr development in Victoria like its a Victorian state league, which just goes to show that the AFL is still in a Victorian state mindset, while in SA and WA the state league clubs have to develop the Jrs in their states.
Imagine what the talent development in Victoria would be like if the VFL clubs like Port Melbourne and Box Hill had to foot the bill and responsibilities for doing what the AFL talent league does? They wouldn't have enough resources to do it. Not only that, but the SA and WA state league clubs are spending money and resources into developing kids who won't even be playing for them, they will be shipped off to an AFL club, so it's all for nought.

The whole development system needs a revamp and the AFL needs to fund both SA and WA to the extent it funds Victoria. The AFL isn't supposed to be a parochial Victorian organisation, and should not be looking fully after Vic while neglecting SA and WA.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

When did academies begin?

2010