It's time to go - Carey and Burns

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#26
Originally posted by macca23
Accepting your post at face value, what you are really saying is that the coaching panel needs a clean-out then.
No, I think you work with the cattle you have.

Compare:
Lynch, Leppitsch, Brown, and Michael

Carey, Mcgregor, Hentschell, and Bassett.

And its not comparing skillsets, its about how Mathews wants his KPP to play the game, to set up midfield and flankers opportunities.
Sadly our KPP do not set-up the same opportunities - its every man for himself out there ( Adelaide not Brisbane)
 

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macca23

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Thread starter #27
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
No, I think you work with the cattle you have.

Compare:
Lynch, Leppitsch, Brown, and Michael

Carey, Mcgregor, Hentschell, and Bassett.

And its not comparing skillsets, its about how Mathews wants his KPP to play the game, to set up midfield and flankers opportunities.
Sadly our KPP do not set-up the same opportunities - its every man for himself out there ( Adelaide not Brisbane)
Surely that's a reflection of our coaches then?? They're supposed to set the game plan.
 
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#28
Macca, in addition to the previos post and upon reflection of Careys games last year, where he was attacting 2 defenders, and absorbing the tackles, thus freeing up a Crows forward. Or he was regularly canning into players to allow free passage to a Crows running player.
Which of our current KPP have you seen do this?
 
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#29
Originally posted by Stiffy_18

We must go after Brian Harris and Camron Faulkner at the end of the year. I would give up a top 10 pick and a player for those 2.
:mad:
A - we wont get them
B - Not in a million years for a first round pick
 

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#30
Originally posted by macca23
The way we're going, the top 10 pick is a formality. We'll have that one for sure.

I can't see the Bullies alowing either of these to slip through their grasp.

Faulkner made a very classy debut. He thinks and uses the ball well.

On the rare chance that they would do a trade, who's the player to parcel up with the draft pick.
Take your pick from the 2nd tier players. Harris is just what the doctor ordered as a FB who is more versatile than that. He is a one mean machine that rarely gets beaten Will be AA FB in a few years. Faulkner was all class. Throw everyting at the Doggies for these 2 and don't take no for an answer.
 

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#31
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
:mad:
A - we wont get them
B - Not in a million years for a first round pick
A - you never know
B - Why the hell not?????? One is a FB and a bloody good one at that who will be one of the best FBs in the comp in years to come and the other one is a gun young midfielder with pace who is a quick thinker and uses the ball well. All this and they are both young. Besides our record is disgraceful when it comes down to1st round selections.
 
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#32
Originally posted by macca23
Surely that's a reflection of our coaches then?? They're supposed to set the game plan.
The gameplan ultimately can only succeed if you have the cattle.

Our problem is twofold.
1. We have not selected the type of players to play an agressive bullocking game - they're rare, often require a high draft pick, and we have gone for the less robust type of KPP (Angwin, McGregor, Hetschell).

2. We hold onto players who are capable, but not matchwinners, and that is a coaching issue.

If reports are correct, Watts is the first inside CHF we have recruited - I do stand to be corrected though. And it does appear that with Krueger the intention was to get a more robust, marking KPP.
 

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#33
You're dreaming Stiffy. There's no way they will be released by the Bulldogs. Get a grip. Might as well go and ask for Jon Brown and Simon Black while we're at it.

We have to go for what we can get.

And it would take more than a top 10 pick and a player to get both of those.

More like top 10 pick, top 30 pick and a quality player.
 
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#34
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
A - you never know
B - Why the hell not?????? One is a FB and a bloody good one at that who will be one of the best FBs in the comp in years to come and the other one is a gun young midfielder with pace who is a quick thinker and uses the ball well. All this and they are both young. Besides our record is disgraceful when it comes down to1st round selections.
JR's comments are repeated often over here, but in honesty, both players are not talked about in the glowing terms you talk about.
And this from a media, that are too quick to push players up.
I have heard Bulldog player interviews, and they have not played Harris's ability up.
 

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#35
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
If reports are correct, Watts is the first inside CHF we have recruited - I do stand to be corrected though. And it does appear that with Krueger the intention was to get a more robust, marking KPP.
Funny you should say that because all the selections we made in the National Draft are hard at it players. Rowan Andrews from the Rookie list is another one who plays hard footy.

I found this on the club website in the ask a coach section and this is Mark Mickan's response.

What do you look for in a player these days? - Nathan Byrne

Recruiting is a very skilled area that requires a lot of research with regard to the type of player that the club needs. The recruiting of a particular type of player depends on what the side needs to improve. We have prioritized some areas and competitiveness is a huge part of what we look for, skill is also high up on the list and then after that there are other important attributes that we look for. These include endurance, speed, body strength and the ability to play more than one position. The character of a person is right up there as well because having a good, strong character means they can handle the pressure and challenges of AFL football
 

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#36
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
JR's comments are repeated often over here, but in honesty, both players are not talked about in the glowing terms you talk about.
And this from a media, that are too quick to push players up.
I have heard Bulldog player interviews, and they have not played Harris's ability up.
Mate i couldn't give a rat's tossbag as to what the media think about players. I don't believe all that media hype I just judge then on whether or not they can play footy and IMHO I think both of those players can play well. Harris is a rugged FB who doesn't give his opponent much room to move in. I watched him last week against Port and he wore Tredrea like a glove. That is no easy task. he is a bloody good FB who has plenty of mongrel in him.

I have seen Faulkner's debut and he is one classy customer with pace and awareness.

If we could get those 2 for a top 10 pick and a player I would be bloody laughing all the way to the bank and back.
 

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macca23

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Thread starter #37
Originally posted by Wayne's-World
The gameplan ultimately can only succeed if you have the cattle.

Our problem is twofold.
1. We have not selected the type of players to play an agressive bullocking game - they're rare, often require a high draft pick, and we have gone for the less robust type of KPP (Angwin, McGregor, Hetschell).

2. We hold onto players who are capable, but not matchwinners, and that is a coaching issue.

If reports are correct, Watts is the first inside CHF we have recruited - I do stand to be corrected though. And it does appear that with Krueger the intention was to get a more robust, marking KPP.
Watts is an inside CHF, and as you say probably the first we've had on our list. Krueger would be handy without that major back injury.

Coming back to the gameplan side of things, and accepting that we don't have the best KPP's in the world, could anyone please tell me what in hell OUR game plan is meant to be????

I think it's basd on once you cross centre, don't look for a man. Be a good sport and give the oppostion at least a 50-50 chance to get the ball.

Seriously, I can see no game plan at all as we enter the forward lines - and that's a coaching problem as much as a playing one.
 

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#40
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Besides our record is disgraceful when it comes down to1st round selections.
I cant disagree with that and think that those two players you mentioned would be handy, but you rarely see clubs "poaching" players these days by using top draft picks. Most top draft exchanges involve players who one for one reason and another want to or have to leave a club.
You don't usually get a club going to another and saying we like the look of "So and So#1", here is a 1st round draft pick for him - oh and we like the look of "So and So#2", here is a player for him.
 

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#41
Originally posted by dezzmo
I cant disagree with that and think that those two players you mentioned would be handy, but you rarely see clubs "poaching" players these days by using top draft picks. Most top draft exchanges involve players who one for one reason and another want to or have to leave a club.
You don't usually get a club going to another and saying we like the look of "So and So#1", here is a 1st round draft pick for him - oh and we like the look of "So and So#2", here is a player for him.
True but Cameron Faulkner comes out of his contract at teh end of the year and we should go after him. Harris is in the first year of his 2 year contract so he would be very tricky to get. I am sure that if we finish below Doggies on the ladder we could "force" doggies into a "lesser" deal than they would originally be wanting. Its a long bow but nothing is impossible. The way we are playing ATM its almost a given that we will be getting priority picks.
 

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#43
Originally posted by dezzmo
From what I have read tonight you'd be prepared to give away Brett Burton!?
Not really. I would give him up if we are ripping the other team off. I like Birdman but I am not a huge fan when he is playing anywhere else except forward line. I just think he burns the ball a lot and "gets away" with it. Matthew Bode burns the ball as much as Burton yet he gets bagged while Birdman seems to escape that.

As I said a while back I think Burton is a match winner as a forward. His marking ability, leap and unpredictability make him a very dangerous player around goals. Thats where I would be playing him and thats where I think he is of greater value to the team. Hopefully the coaching staff (or the new coach) realise that and play him there. He is a goal kicker and in 2002 he kicked 50 goals after he spent a third of the season on the wing.

Unless we are deadset winner from the trade I would keep him.
 

macca23

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Thread starter #44
Originally posted by Stiffy_18

As I said a while back I think Burton is a match winner as a forward. His marking ability, leap and unpredictability make him a very dangerous player around goals. Thats where I would be playing him and thats where I think he is of greater value to the team. Hopefully the coaching staff (or the new coach) realise that and play him there. He is a goal kicker and in 2002 he kicked 50 goals after he spent a third of the season on the wing.

Unless we are deadset winner from the trade I would keep him.
Why the hell he's not playing up there is beyond me. Our forward line is a bloody shambles, and he can actually take a mark or shark it on the ground.

As you said, he kicked 50+ goals at an average of around 4 per match when he was up there in 2002.

But what would we know. :rolleyes:
 

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#45
Fair enough, Stiffy, I take your point - Well off to bed, the lambruscos all gone, maybe you should try something to settle your tensions down a bit!! ;)
 
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#46
Originally posted by macca23
Watts is an inside CHF, and as you say probably the first we've had on our list. Krueger would be handy without that major back injury.

Coming back to the gameplan side of things, and accepting that we don't have the best KPP's in the world, could anyone please tell me what in hell OUR game plan is meant to be????

I think it's basd on once you cross centre, don't look for a man. Be a good sport and give the oppostion at least a 50-50 chance to get the ball.

Seriously, I can see no game plan at all as we enter the forward lines - and that's a coaching problem as much as a playing one.
Honestly the gameplan last week was obvious and good.
This week, our KPP non existent and no system coming out of the centre - result is as you say, very confusing football.
 

Stiffy_18

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#47
Originally posted by macca23
Why the hell he's not playing up there is beyond me. Our forward line is a bloody shambles, and he can actually take a mark or shark it on the ground.

As you said, he kicked 50+ goals at an average of around 4 per match when he was up there in 2002.

But what would we know. :rolleyes:
Playing Burton up forward would dramatically reduce the number of possesions he burns. He is one of those players that are extremely difficult to match up on.
 
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#48
Play Carey for the Showdown, I thought he would never be the Carey of old in his comeback but I still thought he would of had a fair bit of impact but unbelievably he has been pathetically disappointing.
His overhead marking is non-existent, his ground work is out of date and I can only see an impact from him if he plays one on one body to body in the goal square.
Also at North Melbourne if he took a dive he would get the soft free, he has to realise he can't play for free kicks any more as it is the Adelaide Crows not North Melbourne.
Hey guys, also the talking on going for early draft picks is nonsense, the Crows are only one win from 9th position, and what is the point of the Crows getting 1st rd picks anyway, it will probably only end up traded for another dud or wasted on some gumby like a Gilligan or Angwin.
 
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#49
I tend to agree that some younger players should be given a chance ahead of older blokes like Carey.

However every week I am amazed how poorly we use Carey. He still has something to offer in that more often than not if he doesn't mark the ball he makes sure it comes to ground in front of him. But where are the crumbers? Where is McLeod, Burns, Bode, et al? These guys are:

(a) just bombing the ball into the forward 50 or kicking it over his head, and
(b) not front and centre when Carey brings the ball down

Gherig is no superstar but he has kicked a bag of goals already because the Saints move ball quickly and put it into space where he can lead.
 

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#50
Originally posted by MaccasNeighbour
I tend to agree that some younger players should be given a chance ahead of older blokes like Carey.

However every week I am amazed how poorly we use Carey. He still has something to offer in that more often than not if he doesn't mark the ball he makes sure it comes to ground in front of him. But where are the crumbers? Where is McLeod, Burns, Bode, et al? These guys are:

(a) just bombing the ball into the forward 50 or kicking it over his head, and
(b) not front and centre when Carey brings the ball down

Gherig is no superstar but he has kicked a bag of goals already because the Saints move ball quickly and put it into space where he can lead.
Good points as this all a symptom of our (lack of) forward structure. Apart from Stiffy, our forward crumbers have been useless all year.

Also, Kenny playing CHF is not a good idea because he plays deep in the forward line, which congests our goal-mouth for leading out of FF, as well as giving us a lack of leading options coming out of defence across CHF/wings (especially given we don't have marking ruckmen). Whereas Perrie tends to give us a leading option that the players had confidence to kick to.
 
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