It's time to go - Carey and Burns

Michele

Club Legend
Joined
May 16, 2001
Posts
2,339
Likes
2
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Drop Carey, you have to be kidding.:rolleyes: :mad:

Just reading some of the comments, you have no idea about Carey. To even put Carey and Burns in the same caterogy. :rolleyes:
"He tries his guts out"????? wt. He is a PROFESSIONAL. He would never shirk and never not try.

Perhaps if he was allowed to roam around and not stuck in the goal square, then perhaps you might see it differently.
And perhaps if your other forwards got out of the bloody way, he might just be able to mark the ball or palm it off to a running player.

He may not be as quick as he once was, but he has a BRILLIANT footy brain.

What he would be able to teach your young players is immeasurable.

Oh, and btw Ruccuito?? has played well, but what of McLeod and some of your other stars? They have not played well. Do you want to drop them?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

johnnypanther

BigFooty Phantom
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
4,086
Likes
2,595
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
South Adelaide, Kenilworth
Right on the ball Michelle!!

Carey is the best forward we have and even better if he played a roaming forward style where he can use his unsurpassed footy brain and his ability to elude the opposition and effectively dispose of the ball under pressure (unlike most of our side who cant even do it properly when there is little pressure).

Perhaps a lot of his detractors should rewatch the games and evaluate his performances a little more analytically.
 

johnnypanther

BigFooty Phantom
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
4,086
Likes
2,595
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
South Adelaide, Kenilworth
Originally posted by macca23

As for the Carey trade, the less said the better. Effectively we gave up the opportunity of having Daniel Wells and one other highly rated junior in the tri-colours for a broken down ex-champion. We dudded ourselves in our eagerness to get him. [/B]
This has been done to death but for the umpteenth time the ACTUAL trade deal done effectively was:

Carey & Torney in exchange for draft picks 4,14 & 45 !!!!!!!(emphasise number 4 not 2 !!!)

The value of the draft picks was changed by the AFL after the trade period (how unprofessional!!!)

The trade can only properly be evaluated on the basis it was done at the time:

- we needed a key forward to supplement Mark Stevens & Scott Welsh in order to give us a shot at the premiership in 2003 or 2004 (and i emphasise a shot - not a certainty as some people have implied) because in the scheme of things Brisbane & Port Power still probably ranked ahead of us however this 3 pronged forward structure would at least give us a realistic go at the premiership. Its history now that unfortunate injuries to Mark Stevens and Welsh deprived us of this forward structure and deprived us of a real shot at the premiership. Nevertheless it was a trade we needed to do at the time.
- remember also that the number 4 draft pick was not judged to be worth so much at the time as that particular draft was low on standouts - Goddard & Wells at 1 & 2, Brennan at 3, then a large gap to Salopek, Walsh etc at 4 onwards. I dont believe we had to give much up there at all given the realistic premiership chance the trade gave us.
The fault lay with the AFL changing the value of the picks AFTER the trade period - Richmond complained ! and i think Adelaide may have as well - lets face it - there's no way Richmond would have given up the draft pick at trade time if they knew it was going to be number 2 in lieu of 4 knowing they would get Wells or Goddard.

So can people stop judging the club on the Carey trade by using Daniel Wells' name and instead use Salopek or other as the more valid criteria to evaluate that trade!!!

Amen :mad:
 

Stiffy_18

Premium Platinum
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Posts
37,871
Likes
11,930
Location
who cares
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sacramento Kings
Originally posted by johnnypanther
- remember also that the number 4 draft pick was not judged to be worth so much at the time as that particular draft was low on standouts - Goddard & Wells at 1 & 2, Brennan at 3, then a large gap to Salopek, Walsh etc at 4 onwards. I dont believe we had to give much up there at all given the realistic premiership chance the trade gave us.
I think you have been listening to a lot of crap from AFC. You just demonstrated you lack of knowledge when it comes to draft. The general opinion was that there were 3 standouts in Goddard, Wells and Salopek and they were both largely considered top 3 picks. The reason why Salopek slipped to Port is because Brisbane upset the order by taking Brennan because they needed a tall. Western Bulldogs also needed a tall so they went for Walsh. I think you need to be a bit more aware of the draft depth yourself rather than listen to a club that had to justify its position at trading yet another top 10 pick for a player past his best. Every other club said that op 5 were as good as any other draft except AFC and when you consider how crap our record is in drafting in the 1st round you would take that statment with a pinch of salt.

I have said before that going after Carey was not a mistake, getting him was not a mistake but what we game up for him was a mistake irrespectible of whether it was pick 4 or pick 2.

I really admire your loyalty to the AFC but its sometimes better to look at things froma neutral perspective.
 

Mitch Power

Club Legend
Joined
Apr 28, 2003
Posts
1,578
Likes
8
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Arsenal & Olympiakos
Originally posted by Michele
Drop Carey, you have to be kidding.:rolleyes: :mad:

Just reading some of the comments, you have no idea about Carey. To even put Carey and Burns in the same caterogy. :rolleyes:
"He tries his guts out"????? wt. He is a PROFESSIONAL. He would never shirk and never not try.

Perhaps if he was allowed to roam around and not stuck in the goal square, then perhaps you might see it differently.
And perhaps if your other forwards got out of the bloody way, he might just be able to mark the ball or palm it off to a running player.

He may not be as quick as he once was, but he has a BRILLIANT footy brain.

What he would be able to teach your young players is immeasurable.

Oh, and btw Ruccuito?? has played well, but what of McLeod and some of your other stars? They have not played well. Do you want to drop them?
Come on Michelle, be real. Carey and Burns have done nothing. I know I have had a couple of pints at lunch (with my good mate Kane), but even so how can you talk about Riccuito and McLeod in the same breath as Carey and Burns? What have Burns and Carey done over the last year and 6 months? I would love to have McLeod and Riccuito in a Port guernsey but Carey and Burns would certainly not get a game!
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Posts
1,099
Likes
1
Location
in a tree
Other Teams
Glenelg
Originally posted by johnnypanther
This has been done to death but for the umpteenth time the ACTUAL trade deal done effectively was:

Carey & Torney in exchange for draft picks 4,14 & 45 !!!!!!!(emphasise number 4 not 2 !!!)

And Blind Freddy knew that Carlton were going to lose their picks.
It was the sort of opportunity that (hopefully) comes long once in a generation. AFC stuffed it. I wish they would just admit it instead of trying to justify it.
 

macca23

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
19,404
Likes
6,166
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide Crows
Thread starter #107
Originally posted by Mitch Power
I would love to have McLeod and Riccuito in a Port guernsey but Carey and Burns would certainly not get a game!
Well said. That accurately sums up where Carey and Burns are in their career today, not 4 to 5 years ago.
 

Crow-mosone

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Posts
7,598
Likes
4
Location
on the turps
Other Teams
Adelaide
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think you have been listening to a lot of crap from AFC. You just demonstrated you lack of knowledge when it comes to draft. The general opinion was that there were 3 standouts in Goddard, Wells and Salopek and they were both largely considered top 3 picks. The reason why Salopek slipped to Port is because Brisbane upset the order by taking Brennan because they needed a tall. Western Bulldogs also needed a tall so they went for Walsh. I think you need to be a bit more aware of the draft depth yourself rather than listen to a club that had to justify its position at trading yet another top 10 pick for a player past his best. Every other club said that op 5 were as good as any other draft except AFC and when you consider how crap our record is in drafting in the 1st round you would take that statment with a pinch of salt.

I have said before that going after Carey was not a mistake, getting him was not a mistake but what we game up for him was a mistake irrespectible of whether it was pick 4 or pick 2.

I really admire your loyalty to the AFC but its sometimes better to look at things froma neutral perspective.
Stiffy I think you're out of line here, the guy has a point.

Kris Massie was the consensus no.3 pick in the 1997 draft which was considered the best ever at that time. It didn't pan out like that, people said Hawthorn taking Croad at no.3 upset the apple cart and the order, but I don't think history has proven that to be true. Massie wasn't the 3rd best player in that draft and I don't believe Salopek will prove to be the 3rd best player of his year either.

The carey trade is simple: we swung for the fences, made good contact, and still caught out on a pop fly. Better to have gambled and lost.
 

Stiffy_18

Premium Platinum
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Posts
37,871
Likes
11,930
Location
who cares
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sacramento Kings
Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Stiffy I think you're out of line here, the guy has a point.

Kris Massie was the consensus no.3 pick in the 1997 draft which was considered the best ever at that time. It didn't pan out like that, people said Hawthorn taking Croad at no.3 upset the apple cart and the order, but I don't think history has proven that to be true. Massie wasn't the 3rd best player in that draft and I don't believe Salopek will prove to be the 3rd best player of his year either.

The carey trade is simple: we swung for the fences, made good contact, and still caught out on a pop fly. Better to have gambled and lost.
Each to their own.

I am saying that general opinion from all the recruiting departments around the country except AFC's was that the top 5 was as good as in any other year and Goddard, Wells and Salopek were 3 standouts. Brisbane and Bulldogs wanted a tall and they went for it. Salopek slipped. I think you have written Salopek of a bit too early. it hink he will be an outstanding player in years to come. He is still only 18. A long way to go. Salopek might not be the 3rd best player from that draft but he would still be a very good player who will develop into a gun. Order of the draft often changes because of team's needs. Shammer was also widely considered to be a top 10 pick in that draft but he also slipped.

All I am saying is that club fed us a lot of crap in that trade period. Remeber how they told us that of the 3 promoted Rookies that year in Rutten, Bock and Mattner we had a top 15 pick, a top 20 pick and a top 25 pick. Down the track we realise that was load of crap. Neither of those blokes would have gone in 1st round and most probably none were worth a 2nd round pick. Jericho is a much better prospect than either of them and he was a 3rd round pick.

I keep saying that getting Carey was not a mistake BUT paying what we did to get him was way too much.

As naughty monkey said, a blind Freddy could see that Carlton were going to lose those picks. It was the worst kept secrect at the time.

And BTW AFC didn't complain when Carlton lost those picks. JR found it rather surprising that Richmond were complaining at the time.
 

DaveW

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Posts
16,285
Likes
65
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
QPR
Originally posted by Crow-mosone
The carey trade is simple: we swung for the fences, made good contact, and still caught out on a pop fly. Better to have gambled and lost.
Problem was that we aimed for the fence that was the furthest distance away.
 

Crow-mosone

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Posts
7,598
Likes
4
Location
on the turps
Other Teams
Adelaide
Stiffy I am not writing Salopek off, I just don't think he will be a 'great' footballer, there is a lot of room below that for him to have a very good career.

BTW there is no way Carlton believed it was going to lose both picks, they were in contact with the Goddard family and making plans right up to the last. They certainly thought they would have at least 1 pick in the first 2.

you're right the AFC didn't complain, but publicly they rarely complain about anything.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Michele

Club Legend
Joined
May 16, 2001
Posts
2,339
Likes
2
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Originally posted by Mitch Power
Come on Michelle, be real. Carey and Burns have done nothing. I know I have had a couple of pints at lunch (with my good mate Kane), but even so how can you talk about Riccuito and McLeod in the same breath as Carey and Burns? What have Burns and Carey done over the last year and 6 months? I would love to have McLeod and Riccuito in a Port guernsey but Carey and Burns would certainly not get a game!
How about last night's game against Essendon.

If Carey wasn't playing and therefore was unable to 'lift' your team, just how much do you think Essendon would beaten Adelaide?

Oh btw, your coach/team structure actually allowed Carey to play the way he plays best - roaming. Get the ball.

The commentators repeated the understanding between Carey and Riccuito was very, very good.

How can mention Carey, Rucciuto and McLeod in the same breath?
Easy.
He IS the best player. Ask Adelaide's coach what he thinks of Carey? And he has seen many, great players of the years, especially when Hawthorn were at their peak.

Btw Carey didn't choose Port, he chose Adelaide. So there was no problem of him ending up in a Magpie jumper. :eek: He didn't even bother with the other Magpies. And Eddie was on phone.
 

tribey

5 Wins In-A-Row Certificate Recipients '13/'14/'18
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Posts
56,113
Likes
119,715
Location
Queen St & Peter Rd
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
NUFC, YES.
Originally posted by Michele
How can mention Carey, Rucciuto and McLeod in the same breath?
Easy.
He IS the best player. Ask Adelaide's coach what he thinks of Carey? And he has seen many, great players of the years, especially when Hawthorn were at their peak.
Ease up.

He's played a few good games in his AFC career so far with last night's being the pick of the bunch.

You say "he IS the best player"... back 5 years ago yes, in fact he still remains the best player many have ever seen. But now? No. Ricciuto is top dog at West Lakes.
 
Joined
May 21, 2001
Posts
49,522
Likes
38,516
Location
Floating around the Universe
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide Crows
Originally posted by dyertribe
Ricciuto is top dog at West Lakes.
... & by a very big margin!

Though must agree Carey has looked much better playing the roaming role across HFF. Still think we have a better structure with Kenny at CHB, leaving S Stevens/Perrie playing CHF. Just need to find a FF. Rutten perhaps?
 

macca23

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
Posts
19,404
Likes
6,166
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide Crows
Thread starter #120
Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Just need to find a FF. Rutten perhaps?
As dyertribe says - Burton

Played 13 games there in 2002 for 51goals. That is obviously far too successful for the AFC hierarchy!! :rolleyes:

Burton at FF solves many problems we have with him on a wing - his unaccountability and his high turnover level. And he can take a screamer mark in the square.
 

maccas_no1

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Posts
14,358
Likes
5
Location
Whincup's Garage
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Glenelg, MUFC, Triple 8
Originally posted by macca23
As dyertribe says - Burton

Played 13 games there in 2002 for 51goals. That is obviously far too successful for the AFC hierarchy!! :rolleyes:

Burton at FF solves many problems we have with him on a wing - his unaccountability and his high turnover level. And he can take a screamer mark in the square.
Like he did in Brisbane in 2001 when we beat them by 5 points:D :D :D :D :D :D
 

jc67

Club Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2003
Posts
2,438
Likes
9
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Crows
Originally posted by DaveW
I cringe every time I see the ball fall to the floor in front of Carey.

He's just so useless at ground level.

Time for younger blood.
i loved his 2goal on friday. i thought of this post at the time
 

PAfolwr

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Posts
6,342
Likes
5
Other Teams
PA
Originally posted by macca23
As dyertribe says - Burton

Played 13 games there in 2002 for 51goals. That is obviously far too successful for the AFC hierarchy!! :rolleyes:

Burton at FF solves many problems we have with him on a wing - his unaccountability and his high turnover level. And he can take a screamer mark in the square.
Some things are so obvious, yet .......... meh, I'll stop there otherwise I'll start on both Ayres and Williams.
 
Top Bottom