It's Time To Go... Rick Hart

Clay Davis

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#51
Look at the end of 2004 recruiting period. From that year, we have one player left on the list. Ryan Crowley. And he was delisted by us. The only player we have from 9 players we picked up before the 2005 season is one of our own rookie listed rejects. That's worse than any of Neesham's years of drafting and trading. A similar thing will likely be said about the 2006 recruiting period in a couple of years.

Even Damian Drum didn't leave the list in as poor a shape as Connolly.
 

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Clay Davis

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#52
Rubbish , Harves has more quality players available from the CC era after 2 drafts (24 that have played in 2009)
http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=11&SeasonID=2009&Go=Go

than CC had from the Drum era after 2 drafts (21 played in 2003)
http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=11&SeasonID=2003&Go=Go

And an extra 2 spots.

It is all his now..






We won 14 games in 2003
Rubbish. Pav, and Hase were 21-22 in 2003. They, with Bell, have been the core of our side for 7-8 years. Do we have anyone Pav and Hase's age group (or between 22-26) the same class? No. Not at all.
 

Rob

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#54
Don;t know what Swabbie did to upset you blokes.

Was it overseeing by far the most successful period in out history?
Was it saving the club from the $8B debt?
Did We enjoy being the worst team in the league instead of the 7th best from 2002 until 2006?
That successful period you speak of was a whopping 2 finals appearances in 6 years and 1 finals win. And a premiership window of 1 year which we didn't even know at the time.

All Schwab did was oversee a period where we weren't an on field basketcase. The fans came because of that. The reality is that it's not that much of an achievement. If deadbeat clubs like the Bulldogs and St Kilda can have multiple years in the top 4 with realistic chances at a flag, then you can't say with a straight face that Schwab did anything even remotely spectacular. He was just damned lucky we ran a club that actually had a huge underlying supporter base. If he did the same at most other clubs, he'd be classed as an abject failure.
 

Clay Davis

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#56
Sandi
M.J.
Duffman
Duffield and Johnson aren't even in the same hemisphere. Sandilands is turning 27 this year, on the cusp.

Face it Ripper, we have absolutely ****all to show after 4 years of drafting from 2003-2006. Not even Drum nor Neesham left the list in that bad a shape. It's quite likely that as little as two or three from that period will be on the list in two years, and that will be the age where players from that period will be at their peak. But sure, if Schwab and Connolly were still at the club they could trade away our picks for those players when the need arose.
 

Clay Davis

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#58
And if you're going to blame Harvey, let's not forget that Schwab bloody appointed the bloke, without going through the process of interviewing all available candidates, and then pissed off a few months later. So even if the shithouse performance at the moment IS Harvey's fault, it was your idol's decision that put him there.
 

Ripper

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#59
Spin it all you want Ripper, but Schwab and Connolly f(*&^$ed this club big time and most people could see them doing it while they were doing it. Especially meddling in trading/drafting which was none of their business.

I don't buy any of the financial side of things. Guess what, people who are employed by the club to fix the finances should do just that. Anybody with half a business brain could have helped us off the field.

And anybody with half a football brain would have done better than CC, and this would have helped the financial side even more.

Saying it was our most succesful period is nothing to be proud of, because it was still mediocre by any club's standards. They didn't have much to beat and all those two a$$ bandits (and Hart) did was play a very major role in putting us in the position we are today.
You have to start somewhere.

We went from this
(and a spoon)to this

Where we were in finals contention for 4 years straight at round 21.

to this with the real prospect of another spoon

I am not getting on Harves case yet , (CC said He was the best man doe the job so thats good enough for me) .He deserves support , but trying to build him up by tearing others down is unnecessary, unfair and petty.
 

E Shed

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#60
And if you're going to blame Harvey, let's not forget that Schwab bloody appointed the bloke, without going through the process of interviewing all available candidates, and then pissed off a few months later. So even if the shithouse performance at the moment IS Harvey's fault, it was your idol's decision that put him there.
Game. Set, Match.
 

Ripper

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#61
And if you're going to blame Harvey, let's not forget that Schwab bloody appointed the bloke, without going through the process of interviewing all available candidates, and then pissed off a few months later. So even if the shithouse performance at the moment IS Harvey's fault, it was your idol's decision that put him there.
Game. Set, Match.
When you have a 1 goal game the coach & players should be held to account , not the Pres or past Ceo's.

Lets hope it was an just an Outlier..
 

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Clay Davis

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#62
When you have a 1 goal game the coach & players should be held to account , not the Pres or past Ceo's.

Lets hope it was an just an Outlier..
Nice dodge, Rip. Connollyesque.

Problem is the players who should be the peak of their abilities, between 21-26, don't exist when we play other sides. This is the core of those who played against Adelaide in that age range:

Peake, Brett
Dodd, Steven
Murphy, Ryan
Schammer, Byron
Duffield, Paul
Mundy, David
Bradley, Kepler
Broughton, Greg
Ibbotson, Garrick
Ballantyne, Hayden

Johncock, Graham
Thompson, Scott
Rutten, Ben
Bock, Nathan
Reilly, Brent
Symes, Brad
Porplyzia, Jason
Vince, Bernie
van Berlo, Nathan
Maric, Ivan
Tippett, Kurt
Knights, Chris

The difference is stark.
 

Ripper

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#63
Nice dodge, Rip. Connollyesque.

Problem is the players who should be the peak of their abilities, between 21-26, don't exist when we play other sides. This is the core of those who played against Adelaide in that age range:

Peake, Brett
Dodd, Steven
Murphy, Ryan
Schammer, Byron
Duffield, Paul
Mundy, David
Bradley, Kepler
Broughton, Greg
Ibbotson, Garrick
Ballantyne, Hayden

Johncock, Graham
Thompson, Scott
Rutten, Ben
Bock, Nathan
Reilly, Brent
Symes, Brad
Porplyzia, Jason
Vince, Bernie
van Berlo, Nathan
Maric, Ivan
Tippett, Kurt
Knights, Chris

The difference is stark.
Means nothing ,it was 22 vs 22. I expected to lose , not have a 1 goal game.

Even Gerard with 40+ 1st year players never managed less than 7 goals.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/teams/fremantle/gamer.html#02
.
 

Clay Davis

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#64
WHO APPOINTED THE PRESENT COACH? WHO TOOK AN ACTIVE ROLE IN PLAYER TRADES? WHO WAS AT THE CLUB WHILE WE BUGGERED UP EVERY DRAFT FROM 2003-06?

Please answer the question. You're very keen to defend Schwab.
 

Ripper

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#66
WHO APPOINTED THE PRESENT COACH? WHO TOOK AN ACTIVE ROLE IN PLAYER TRADES? WHO WAS AT THE CLUB WHILE WE BUGGERED UP EVERY DRAFT FROM 2003-06?

Please answer the question. You're very keen to defend Schwab.
Gross exaggeration. Have a sit back and think what happens when you use all your picks and have to delist 3 players(more if you promote rookies) every year.

It is simple maths.

2003 We got M.j. Mundy , Peake & Duffield
2004 we go H Black & Josh Carr & Crowley came good
2005 we got Drum ? Ibbo :thumbsu: & Warnock (Suban , Bucovich)
2006 We got Tarrant , Solly & O'brian (Who maybe flicked before he get a go)

There is not much wrong with our list if it wasn't so decimated by injury.

If you get on average 3 quality players every draft/trade you are doing alright.

There is nothing garanteed that most of the new blokes will not turn out to be Duds
 

dominguez

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#68
Rubbish , Harves has more quality players available from the CC era after 2 drafts (24 that have played in 2009)
http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=11&SeasonID=2009&Go=Go

than CC had from the Drum era after 2 drafts (21 played in 2003)
http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=11&SeasonID=2003&Go=Go

And an extra 2 spots.


lol, your loyalty is impressive Ripper.

So you're saying that the guys in their early 20's when Harvey took over like Mundy, Johnson, Peake, Schammer, Campbell, Murphy are superior to the blokes that were at a similar age when CC took over like Hasleby, Pavlich, Longmuir, Croad, Farmer, Bell?

Connolly took over a list laden with potential and the only way was up. Harvey inherited a list of 26-27 year old under achievers and a group of players in their early 20's who were mediocre at best and remain so.

The only criticism that Harvey deserves at this stage is that Mundy, Peake, Murphy and Thornton are still as soft and inconsistent as they were under Connolly.
 

dominguez

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#69
Where we were in finals contention for 4 years straight at round 21.

Haha, clasic Ripper! Setting the bar a little low aren't we?


to this with the real prospect of another spoon

The spoon's over rated. Melbourne beat Carlton in round 22 2007 which cost them Naitanui or Hill. I'm sure Demon's fans would gladly return that victory for either of those players.


I am not getting on Harves case yet , (CC said He was the best man to do the job so thats good enough for me) .

That made me chuckle. :thumbsu:


He deserves support , but trying to build him up by tearing others down is unnecessary, unfair and petty.

I was tearing down certain "others" long before Harvey took over!!!!
 

dominguez

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#70
When you have a 1 goal game the coach & players should be held to account , not the Pres or past Ceo's.

Lets hope it was an just an Outlier..



When you have a one goal game it's an indication that you have a shit list.

You can't turn a lump of coal into a diamond in 2 drafts.
 

dominguez

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#71
It is simple maths.

2003 We got M.j. Mundy , Peake & Duffield
2004 we go H Black & Josh Carr & Crowley came good
2005 we got Drum ? Ibbo :thumbsu: & Warnock (Suban , Bucovich)
2006 We got Tarrant , Solly & O'brian (Who maybe flicked before he get a go)

When you add players during trade week you're telling the world you'll achieve something during their tenure though. The bolded players have played in 6 finals games for Fremantle between them suggesting that your friends were way off in their list assessment.

Bit of a stretch having Brock among your 3 quality players isn't it?








There is nothing garanteed that most of the new blokes will not turn out to be Duds

The difference is that if they do end up being very good players they'll have long careers like Pav and Hase instead of giving us a couple of good seasons like Carr, Tarrant, Solomon, etc.
 

Clay Davis

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#72
2003 We got M.j. Mundy , Peake & Duffield
Using rookie listed players and PSD picks? The only reason why we rely on them is because we nearly buggered the draft completely by taking Dunn and Murphy with our first two. Mundy should be a good player, if Peake is best 22 in a couple of years he will have improved immensely or we will still be poor. I like MJ and Duffield, but I wonder if we'd need them if we had drafted better players earlier.

2004 we go H Black & Josh Carr & Crowley came good
Worst example in the history of mankind. Black and Carr are no longer at the club. We got under four years out of them at best. Crowley had ALREADY been delisted by us, and was our last rookie pick. The only player left on the list from that period was one of our own rejects. What happened to all the other players?

2005 we got Drum ? Ibbo :thumbsu: & Warnock (Suban , Bucovich)
Ibbo is the only win. What we got in return for Warnock's trade was the good work of the current administration

2006 We got Tarrant , Solly & O'brian (Who maybe flicked before he get a go)
Will any of these players be on the list in two-three years?
 

Ripper

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#73
You chucked up Adelaide as an example before.

They are proof that you don't need to rely on high draft picks.

The worrying thing to me is it seems the current template to get ahead is to tank along on the bottom for multiple years now to get 1st round PP's.

That is distorting the whole comp.

If we didn't have Warnock We wouldn't have got the picks .

It was not a watse of a pick , it has shown a profit so far.
 

Ripper

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#75
lol, your loyalty is impressive Ripper.

So you're saying that the guys in their early 20's when Harvey took over like Mundy, Johnson, Peake, Schammer, Campbell, Murphy are superior to the blokes that were at a similar age when CC took over like Hasleby, Pavlich, Longmuir, Croad, Farmer, Bell?
The list is thin when you have to add back in the New players.

The worry with Murphy , Mundy , Peake , M.J etc is they appear to have stagnated or gone backwards.

Connolly took over a list laden with potential and the only way was up. Harvey inherited a list of 26-27 year old under achievers and a group of players in their early 20's who were mediocre at best and remain so.

The only criticism that Harvey deserves at this stage is that Mundy, Peake, Murphy and Thornton are still as soft and inconsistent as they were under Connolly.
I have already demonstrated that the list was turned over at least as much as it has been recently.

Swabbie and CC upset the masses when they wanted to turn it over even more in 2004.

They stuffed up there and should have stuck to their guns.
 
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