The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
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Jesus, they go on for an eternity!
It's Time To Stop Demonizing Men (pls read OP)
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JB1975
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In your case, I'd advise you to stay away from pills altogether.
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FMD, you have some very dangerous problems
Have you considered professional help?
JB1975
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As for those immoral harlots you speak of, by all means leave them to me.
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Welcome to the world of the Red Pill. I think Sir Alec Guinness summed it up best.
Bad Horse
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So..back to the initial topic of the thread.
One of the best studies available comes from the Dunedin Longitudinal study. They started tracking intimate partner violence once the cohort reached phase 21 (so 21 years old).
A convenient snapshot can be found here.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/170018.pdf
Some key takeaways;
Women cohort members reported perpetrating violence more often than men. Male cohort members reported being on the receiving end more often than women. This crosscheck was seen as data validation.
Amongst the men, being a perpetrator of intimate partner violence was strongly correlated to other factors such as mental illness, drug abuse, low socioeconomic factors etc. Not so the women.
The conclusion was interesting
"The Dunedin study findings suggest that although women do report assaulting their partners, women’s behavior is generally not accompanied by multiple problems in other areas. The researchers speculate that knowledge about the consequences of partner violence might explain this difference. Most men know that if they hit their partner, she is likely to be injured, the police may be called, and the police are now likely to act swiftly against male perpetrators. As a result, young men whose selfcontrol is compromised by enormous social stress, mental illness, or intoxication will be most likely to risk the consequences of hitting their partner. However, women know that they are unlikely to injure their partner, he is unlikely to call for help, and the police are unlikely to intervene. Thus, there is little to deter an angry young woman from hitting her partner. As such, women of all sorts may be apt to hit their partners, not just women whose judgment is clouded by stress, mental illness, or intoxication"
This was borne out in individual interviews with female subjects in the cohort. What struck interviewers were the number of female perpetrators who expressed no remorse at all about their behaviour.
So, there is some data to suggest we have a problem here, and focussing on male perpetrated violence may be storing up some issues for the future.
One of the best studies available comes from the Dunedin Longitudinal study. They started tracking intimate partner violence once the cohort reached phase 21 (so 21 years old).
A convenient snapshot can be found here.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/170018.pdf
Some key takeaways;
Women cohort members reported perpetrating violence more often than men. Male cohort members reported being on the receiving end more often than women. This crosscheck was seen as data validation.
Amongst the men, being a perpetrator of intimate partner violence was strongly correlated to other factors such as mental illness, drug abuse, low socioeconomic factors etc. Not so the women.
The conclusion was interesting
"The Dunedin study findings suggest that although women do report assaulting their partners, women’s behavior is generally not accompanied by multiple problems in other areas. The researchers speculate that knowledge about the consequences of partner violence might explain this difference. Most men know that if they hit their partner, she is likely to be injured, the police may be called, and the police are now likely to act swiftly against male perpetrators. As a result, young men whose selfcontrol is compromised by enormous social stress, mental illness, or intoxication will be most likely to risk the consequences of hitting their partner. However, women know that they are unlikely to injure their partner, he is unlikely to call for help, and the police are unlikely to intervene. Thus, there is little to deter an angry young woman from hitting her partner. As such, women of all sorts may be apt to hit their partners, not just women whose judgment is clouded by stress, mental illness, or intoxication"
This was borne out in individual interviews with female subjects in the cohort. What struck interviewers were the number of female perpetrators who expressed no remorse at all about their behaviour.
So, there is some data to suggest we have a problem here, and focussing on male perpetrated violence may be storing up some issues for the future.
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
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This thread has taken an unexpected tenor. Thanks Bad Horse for your thought-provoking post. 
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
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Apart from physical strength/athleticism, on average, how did you arrive at that conclusion?
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You are just a sad hateful misogynistHow is staying away from females dangerous? Marriage is dangerous. Knocking a chick up is dangerous. These things will financially cripple you and destroy your life and everything you have worked for. You know a de facto partner who you had no kids with can take half of even your super! I'll laugh when you are broke, been railroaded by a female and got no money while I'll be a millionaire just laughing.
But you really do need some help
Recent initiatives, in Victoria at least, have brought sentencing more in line my personal views. Obviously not in all cases but there aren't the large numbers of wholly suspended sentences there use to be.
This made Bad Horse' link quite interesting in that the more recent study data lines up with changing attitudes in sentencing in Victoria. It would have been more informative if the study was done in two halves both in Victoria for comparison. I wonder how much being predictive of the perceived result effected the responses, no way to get around that really.
So Victoria is not as soft as France or Germany where you can get out and about within three years after armed robbery with an assault rifle (real not journalist) during which you attempt to kill police with said assault rifle.
There probably isn't that much discussion from this then.
This is a dangerous place for everyone. You basically pick to be an *ist with *isms or choose cognitive dissonance and only accept the happy rainbows and candy version of everything and everyone. Having said that it is then easy to be lumped with the sirlothie types that have been wronged real and or perceived and then (exactly the same as the shrill SJWs) been wound tighter and tighter by confirmation bias in closed groups. The internet is awesome at this because you can always find someone to agree with you no matter what your views are.
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
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Yes no doubt it's very tricky to navigate. Cognitive dissonance is an apt description.
I would consider myself a feminist, but at the same time find that there is a nauseating number of voices, on both sides of the gender divide who don't really desire equality; rather men who are loathe to concede power or women who wish to be able to have their cake and eat it too.
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Man, this is getting heavy.
I think I'll just kick back and get some perspective from those great social commentators, The Kinks...
I think I'll just kick back and get some perspective from those great social commentators, The Kinks...
Bad Horse
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This thread has taken an unexpected tenor. Thanks Bad Horse for your thought-provoking post.
Every now and then its kind of nice to have some data, especially when theres a pretty good study with data that you can rely on generally. The Dunedin Longitudinal is one of those moments of pure luck, from a scientific standpoint its almost unparalleled, and when it throws up stuff you dont expect, its probably time to listen. It has created extreme controversy plenty of times, and its scientists have stood the storm well.
I approach this whole topic with a degree of trepidation. I've never experienced violence in my partner relationships. I have had friends who have, and to the extent that I've seen it it was always the male as perpetrator, but how many mates didnt tell me I cannot answer.
I have though been on the receiving end of s**t people dont talk about in polite conversation. It's how I ended up in foster care, it's also how I developed a lovely case of PTSD. Its also why I have a history of violence myself. I've been close enough to going inside as a juvenile and an adult for violent offences. The whole stopping the cycle thing is real, I fight it every day. In reality, I think there is both a tolerance for violence that's unhelpful, as well as an inability to know what to do with guys who have been victims. So who knows. All I know is, I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd Ringo. And it's probably time to go before sirfrothy makes me lose my s**t.
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Let's get this thread sort-of back on topic.
I've wanted to write my personal experience in this thread for quite a while now. But I took a short break from this forum for a while.
So without further ado: ....
First, a little backstory. I've added a part below where you can skip my backstory if you REALLY don't want to read it but I'll try to keep it as short as possible.
For those that know, me and my mother have never seen eye-to-eye together since the passing of my father in 2005.
Since his death it was always a rocky battle with her, she was (by her own admission) holding a grudge against me for past events that transpired when I was a child. I wasn't in the right frame of mind for most of my childhood, as well as most of my teenage life due to me being dragged through family court and having my father pass away at 9 years old. I can admit I wasn't the best kid because of that, I'm still not that good of a person but hey, nobody's perfect right?
During my childhood, after my father's death, my mum and I would come to clash on many occasions, some physical, mostly verbal, but a lot of emotion was exchanged in those moments. You see, mum never got over my father's death and would take her anger out on me. For many reasons but mainly because I was mostly involved during the time they were having issues, I was dragged through a lot of s**t a child should never see, and stupidly enough, because I look like my Dad and because I am my father's son.
If I did one thing to set her off, it'd be a pretty relentless battle between the both of us. Simple things like not doing homework or not cleaning my room and she would see to it that I was called every insult imaginable, and I usually copped a bit of a hiding too. I still have photos from some of the stuff she inflicted on me, and I lived in fear of my mother for a lot my childhood, but I still loved her and I couldn't see past what was going on due to that.
I had gone through a lot and because of that I became a rebellious teenager during my young teenage years (From age 13). I'd skip school a heck of a lot, I'd talk back to her, I'd irritate people, I'd do stupid things.... A lot of teenagers do these kinds of things, yes, but If you listened to my mum then I was the reincarnation of the Devil. Things had gotten so bad when I was 15, that I couldn't go home without having a fight with her or my brother, and she was literally seconds away from sending me to Assumption College boarding school because she couldn't handle it. (Rightly so).
The thought of being away from the only family I saw on a regular basis scared me enough to ship up or shape out. And I transferred to a new class away from people that were influencing me, and generally became a better person (with a few hiccups here and there.)
From Age 16, things were quite a bit better with my mother, but triggers to past events or me slipping up every now and then would still start a heck of an argument. I just had to ask her to see my Dad's parents for her not to talk to me for the whole week. And just talking back to her when she's in a bad mood would be enough to send a rolling pin flying at my legs. Still, I didn't know much else. And I'm not to judge if it's right or wrong, maybe I did deserve it. Who knows?
Now, on the other side of the spectrum. Things with her and my brother were much much different.
He was born 2 years before my Dad passed away, and didn't see what I had to see/didn't experience what I had to go through. He doesn't remember my Dad.
Unfortunately for me, due to this, my Mum always saw my brother as the one who "wasn't corrupted" by these events, and sort of like the golden child.
She always referred to him as "MY son" and not "HIS son" (What I used to be called, referring to my father). She frequently praised him with lines like "You'll never mess up like your brother did" and "I'll always love you more than your brother because you're not corrupted by lies like he is.", she even told me straight to my face, that I won't be loved as much as my brother because of everything that happened in the past. Believe me, This hurt. But I wasn't prepared to move out of home or anything because of it, the odd moment of affection from her was enough for me.
Still though, like I mentioned, this tension between us caused the odd spotfire here and there, and It wasn't a healthy environment to be in when it did get physical.
Now that the backstory is over.
I turned 18, I got a car, I started working, things were probably the best they had ever been at that time. This lasted for about 8 months and then everything came crashing down.
I fell into depression during the end of 2014 (was still 18), mainly due to being overworked in an environment I wasn't enjoying (repetitive job), and also just a ton of residual build up from everything that's happened in the past. I broke down pretty badly and had to leave my job in January 2015.
My Mum didn't like this as I started freeloading, and I wasn't the best of people to be around while depressed.
In March 2015 I started a traineeship in computer engineering. It was made out to be a lot more than it actually was, I thought I was going to be working with computers for the whole day, instead I got stuck inside a factory working on computers for 2 hours and for the rest of the day had to help Pakistani Men move and ship TV's, Audio equipment, and old PC parts. This was hugely tiring on top of my depression and something that didn't help me is that during lunch breaks they wouldn't speak English, they'd only speak Urdu amongst themselves. There was 4 of them and then only me so I didn't fit in at all and I felt like an outcast. (However I have nothing against these guys at all, as well as Pakistani men in general, so don't get the wrong idea. These were some of the nicest blokes when they did have the opportunity to deal with me. We even bonded over some things, like the Cricket. The lunch incidents were the only times where I felt disrespected and In hindsight I should have brought this up to them.)
Above all that though, the problem I had with the whole thing is that what they had been asking me to do was absolutely not how the traineeship was advertised and there was very little computer work going on. This is no fault of their own, as my Job Agency was the one who set me up with this and provided me with all the wrong info. (Silly job agency person walks into a factory with computers and thinks that because there are a lot of computers there then there'd be a lot of work ON computers to do and that It'd be perfect for me.) - Whatever, she had the right intentions for me I guess.
I mentioned in the last paragraph, this traineeship only lasted for 2 whole days.
On the third day after not sleeping all night I broke down at 7am crying thinking that I was useless because I couldn't fit in with them and because the opportunity wasn't what I thought it'd be. I knew in my head I wasn't going back because of all this, I just wouldn't allow myself to go back, and it disappointed me. My mum saw me hysterical and she screamed at me saying I needed antidepressants and that if I didn't get antidepressants then I'd be like this forever and I was becoming a burden to her. So I drove to my Local GP who I had been seeing for about 6 years at the time. She was never any good at her job, she was never quite sure about things and tended to misdiagnose me and my brother a lot, my Mum only liked her because she was very local and was quick and easy to get into. No waiting at all. Her practice was almost always empty, and this should have been enough to give us alarm bells... (But Hey, she's a Doctor and I'm just some guy on the internet so I guess she did something right.)
I told the Doctor I was depressed, explained a little of what happened, and without any further assessment besides the fact that she knew me and my mum and brother, she chucked me a prescription for antidepressants that same day.
When I got on the antidepressants, they changed me, they made me my rebellious early teen self again, Angry at the world, Always wondering why, Doing reckless things without thought of consequence, the list goes on. They made me feel very numb to reality and I turned into somebody with no emotions at all. For example, I'm usually a very law abiding person and would never harm people intentionally if it broke the law, this includes when driving. However on Antidepressants I would speed in my car (Around people) and not think about the consequences if I hit someone or how it'd affect the people around me. I thought I was a hero and I had no moral conscience at all.
TL;DR VERSION: I had a bad childhood, my Mum and I never got along due to things that happened with my father and after my father's death. We fought a lot. I always felt like my brother was better treated. Caused a lot of tension between all 3 of us...
---SKIP HERE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ THE BACKSTORY---
If you skipped here and didn't read the backstory. Then you should because I tried to make it a good read, and, y'know, my life is interesting. But yes, this is a thread about demonizing men and it's not a thread about my life story so I don't blame you if you're only here for what you came for.
However If you have just read all that and you're still here by this point, I thank you. Some of you may already know my story or know some parts of it, but regardless I thought it would be good practice to give an outline of how the past affected what I'm about to write about.
So now I come to the part where I truly feel I was victimized as a male.
April 2015.
I won't mention the date, but I remember this day very vividly. 2 days before my 19th Birthday, something that I thought could never happen, did happen, and in a big way.
Because I was unemployed and on antidepressants at the time, I had to attend my Job Agency as a requirement for Centrelink. I explained to them that I was having issues at home and my Mum wasn't dealing with my depression very well, and they gave me a sheet of paper outlining a bunch of services that could help with her better understand what was going on, counselling, etc.
Now, if there was one thing my Mum hated the most (Even though she hated a lot of things), It'd be getting told how to do her job as a parent.
She raised both me and my brother as a single Mum after my father's death, and takes a lot of pride in that. I respect that, she might have screwed me over along the way, but at least she kept us with a roof over our heads and food on the table. That's one thing I can never fault her for.
My mother would hate being told she had bad parenting skills (which my Dad's family had said a lot), and she'd go absolutely furious if someone tried to interfere with her raising of me and my brother.
So this day I came home with that sheet of paper containing family help services, and didn't show it to her. Instead I sat down on the couch in the living room and watched TV with her until I decided to go and see what my brother was up to. I walked into his room and told him that it was very messy and that he should clean it up. He was annoyed by this and he screamed out to my Mum telling her to tell me to shut up. My Mum reacted badly and said that my room was messy too so I shouldn't be one to talk. (Yes, it was very messy. I never enjoyed cleaning and especially not while depressed. It was 3x worse than my brother's room, at least.) - But, the conversation should have ended there. Instead she walked up to my room upstairs and told me it was a pigsty and I should clean it immediately. I refused but did agree to clean it later on, however she wasn't satisfied and proceeded to insult me by calling me filthy, a pig, etc, it was probably deserved. The room was trash, but I didn't like the way I was being insulted. I told her that I'm very depressed and that she isn't helping with that at all, and then she told me that if I wasn't happy with living in that house then to get out and stop living there.
I told her I didn't want that, and said to her (Sarcastically) that the Job Agency gave me a sheet of paper with organizations that can help her become a better parent. Yes, I know, I criticized her parenting, and that was my big mistake on that day.
She went furious and said that if I was mouthing out to other people about her parenting, then I definitely didn't deserve to live there and she wanted me out straight away. She told me to go Centrelink and ask them for a place to live because clearly living with her wasn't good enough for me. She was serious. She really wanted me out then and there, Now, I'd been kicked out before, for a couple weeks here and there, stayed at my Grandparents (Dad's parents) - but it was never a permanent thing. It was more of a "I can't deal with you right now so I need a break" kind of thing. But this time it was serious and at 19 she had enough of me but I wasn't prepared to leave as I had no plans for anything at all.
She got upset at my refusal to leave and threatened to throw all my stuff out if I didn't leave right then and there. She walked away, went outside for a cigarette, and told me that If I wasn't packing by the time she came back inside she would come up and throw said stuff out. I didn't know what to do, and the antidepressants I was on made me very confused about my emotions and what was happening. I sat at the top of the stairs waiting for her to inevitably come back in and start something with me. And when she did come inside she ran upstairs and started reaching at my clothes that were on the landing point at the top of the stairs. All I did was stand my ground at the top of the stairs and turned my phone camera on to video record what she was doing. I'm a decently tall guy (6'1) and weighed a fair bit back then (110kg), she was around 5'10, 70kg. So naturally she couldn't budge me but she surely did give it her best shot. She got upset at me recording her little fit of rage and she and told me to turn it off, but I refused, and she then tried to break my phone. So with one arm I'm trying to hold my ground at the top of the stairs, and with my other arm I'm trying to avoid her swinging at my phone. I don't know how I did it, I really don't know how, it must have been the adrenaline, but I managed to avoid getting any part of my phone broken at that time. She was coming at me with, what I would say, all of her force, as it was obvious she was unable to really move me without it. And she really did seem on a mission to remove my stuff from the property. After what I would say was about 30 mins of this unnecessary shoving at the top of the stairs, she backed off, started calling me a bunch of insults like "pathetic", "loser", "a creep", and "useless" (but I was used to all this by then) - and then she went back downstairs for another smoke. And told me to be gone once again.
I probably should have left, regardless of whether my stuff was there or not, but I stupidly stayed at the top of the stairs again. And she came back, once again. She tried the same thing as before, and she started screaming in frustration, my brother then heard what was going on and she told him to get her phone to record me. So my brother then stood at the bottom of the stairs recording the both of us in our little squabble, equipped with a rolling pin in his other hand because the poor thing was obviously frightened by what was going on. (He was 12 at the time. I'm sure he didn't want to see any of this.)
However, his video, the recording on the bottom of the stairs, looked REALLY bad on me. Because all you could see from that angle was her trying to get to the top of the stairs, and me, male, tall, big, blah blah blah, standing at the top of the stairs with his arms outstretched.
The constant arguing went on for another 15 or so minutes I'd say, with her taking breaks and sitting down insulting me and then trying to come back up again when she caught her breath. (Smokers, right?)
Eventually, she had enough. She told me that this whole thing was pathetic and she was going to the cops to get me removed from the household. She then walked downstairs and took my brother and was about to leave to go the police station when I begged her not to. I told her there's no need for this, it's going to cause unnecessary trouble between us, and that I would have everything clean if she didn't go to the cops and we can just settle down a bit.
She told me that she wouldn't go to the Police, on one condition. And that condition was if I deleted the video recordings I had of her from our incident previously. I said yep, that's fine, let's forget about this. I told her that I'd delete my recordings if she deleted hers on her phone that my brother took. She told me to delete mine first. Alarm bells immediately went off in my head and I knew that she was trying to hide what really went on and that she wasn't fully confident that what really happened when looking at it fairly, matched up with what happened in her head where I was supposedly a demon.
I'm not an idiot, nobody can take me for an idiot, I've been taught all my life that any evidence is good evidence and if someone has evidence against you then you're screwed unless you have evidence against them. I had a suspicion that if I deleted my videos first, she wouldn't delete hers afterwards and go to the cops regardless. So I refused to delete them and she drove to the Police station with my brother.
I panicked, didn't know what to do, walked around in circles for 10 minutes, and then drove to my grandparents house. (Dad's parents)
They know my mum, they know what she's like, they know what she's capable of, they know our relationship, they saw my videos and said that I have absolutely nothing to fear and that she looks like an absolute idiot. My grandma told me to go to the police and explain who I am, and then explain what happened and give them my evidence because my side of the story didn't look too bad.
I did just that, and arrived at the same Police station my mother went to (this was about 30 minutes after she had arrived there I would think) - and they immediately knew who I was and after hearing my name they told me I need to go with them. They took all my stuff I had on me (Phone, wallet, car keys), and put me in a detention room without asking me anything else or asking how I was. They just said "You need to come with us you're going into detention" and explained nothing at all. I asked them if I could explain my side of the story first and they told me I'd get a chance later.
This really scared me, I've never been in jail, I've never been accused of a crime, I don't have a criminal record, I'm not the type of person to have run-ins with the police.
I was in a pretty secure detention room for about an hour, I couldn't really tell the time because I didn't have my phone with me and there was no clock. But it felt like MORE than an hour in my head. I had nothing but my own thoughts of what had just transpired. Eventually a Female police officer opened the door and told me to come with her, she gave me back my stuff and sat me down in an interview room and explained that I was put in detention because my mother had fears about her own safety around me. She then only allowed me to BRIEFLY explain my side of the story and I will never forget this Police Officer's name because she made me feel like a downright criminal. She explained that they have put an intervention order on me after seeing her video and that I wouldn't be able to go within 500m of my mum or brother, her work, or his school. I wouldn't be allowed to contact them at all and all contact should be done via the police as a third party until the 8th of April where we had to go to a magistrates court to review this. There were great consequences if I broke this IVO before the court date. So before they have even heard my side of the story (BECAUSE there is 2 sides to every story), they put an intervention order on me separating me from my family, and also sent me to court. I asked this officer who I was with in the interview room "What about my video?" (You know, the one that made HER look nuts) - She told me that she didn't want to see it at this time and that I should EMAIL it to her. She gave me her card and I was sent on my way.
I spent that week at my grandparents, deeply upset, I was basically living out of a garbage bag until the 8th as all my Mum had dropped off for me was a few pairs of clothes. I had none of my other possessions given to me.
I made a big mistake, and didn't send my video to this officer via email, as I was furious with her and the situation. This is where I probably stuffed up.
I got to court on the 8th of April and I felt pretty confident that things would get resolved and that my mum would have calmed down and I'd go back to living there but I was shocked as after waiting 2 hours in the court waiting room I was told by a senior Police officer that the intervention order was being extended to 1 year under POLICE request. I said "Why?" and they told me that they're really cracking down on family violence and that violence in the family is unacceptable. The officer explained to me that because I was a male it really looked bad on me scrapping it out with a woman and especially my mother and that's how they came to the decision. I said to him that I have photos from previous incidents where I have bruises and cuts and scrapes all over my arm and neck and head from when she tried to strangle me and also various other photos that show ME being the victim and he simply said. "I don't want to see them. Not relevant to this case."
They told me that I could dispute the decision and take it to a higher court, pay money, but if I lost the case then I would have a criminal record. OR I could just accept this IVO without admitting to anything and not be called a criminal and that would be it unless I broke the IVO. I took the sensible option because I'm not a criminal and just accepted it. But this still gutted me. I dragged myself in front of the judge who then gave the order.
I was given a copy of the order before I left court, and the things written about me in the statement made me look like I had just attempted to murder somebody. Apparently my mum was fearing for her life and that she was worried I was going to push her down the stairs. I was made to look totally evil and I read the statement to this day and it still disgusts me what is written. I'll tell you one thing though, if someone is truly fearing for their life, they do not provoke the situation any more. They flee immediately. If she truly did fear for her life, she wouldn't have spent an hour of her life trying to fight with me on the top of the stairs. It's called the fight or flight response, it's human instincts, when we're in a situation we know is dangerous, we panic, and basic survival instincts kick in. Can we run away? Is it safe to? If it is, then defuse the situation and run. If the only chance is to fight, then and only then you fight. This is what would have happened if she was truly scared, but she wasn't scared. She wanted this to happen.
For the record, during our incident, not one punch was thrown, not from me not from her. It was purely pushing back and forth. Not once did I ever think of hurting her seriously by pushing or punching her down the stairs. As you could imagine, her standing on only one step at the top flight, at any time she could have fallen backwards or at any time I could have overpowered her and knocked her backwards, down the stairs, to a potential serious injury/death. I'm not that kind of person, through my actions It was obviously I had no intention of hurting her. But I was certainly treated like I did.
The rest of that day was a blur, I won't explain what I did to myself.
On my next Job Agency appointment, I was made to feel like a disgusting person. I explained to my (female) support worker what happened with my mother, and she immediately told me to stand up. I did. She told me to come up to her and stand in front of her. I did. And then she said to me. "Look how tall you are compared to me. I am a woman. If you put your hands on me, you'd be stronger than me because you are bigger. You are bigger than your mum and you should NEVER put your hands on a woman, especially your mother, regardless of what is happening, because you're stronger than a woman"
I was shocked. She was standing there making me feel like an absolute piece of s**t. I tried to explain what was going through my head at that time but she wouldn't listen. She just told me that it was unacceptable to put a hands on a woman regardless of the circumstances.
I didn't say anything to her about this afterwards, I kept quiet but on the drive back I felt like such an awful person and began to question myself.
I transferred to a new Job Agency immediately afterwards and never spoke to her again. I should have filed for harassment but I don't think that works unless I'm a female. :/ (....)
-----------------------
So there you go. All of this happened a year and a half ago. But I just basically described 2 incidents (both related). Where it felt like I was being victimized as a male.
I didn't proof read everything that I have just written because honestly it's a lot to go through, so I am sorry for any grammar or spelling errors.
Make what you will of the story. As I said, there is 2 sides to every story but If you did read all that then I'd love to hear your opinion.
Am I wrong to feel like a victim of the way society is heading at the moment?
Cheers all.
I've wanted to write my personal experience in this thread for quite a while now. But I took a short break from this forum for a while.
So without further ado: ....
First, a little backstory. I've added a part below where you can skip my backstory if you REALLY don't want to read it but I'll try to keep it as short as possible.
For those that know, me and my mother have never seen eye-to-eye together since the passing of my father in 2005.
Since his death it was always a rocky battle with her, she was (by her own admission) holding a grudge against me for past events that transpired when I was a child. I wasn't in the right frame of mind for most of my childhood, as well as most of my teenage life due to me being dragged through family court and having my father pass away at 9 years old. I can admit I wasn't the best kid because of that, I'm still not that good of a person but hey, nobody's perfect right?
During my childhood, after my father's death, my mum and I would come to clash on many occasions, some physical, mostly verbal, but a lot of emotion was exchanged in those moments. You see, mum never got over my father's death and would take her anger out on me. For many reasons but mainly because I was mostly involved during the time they were having issues, I was dragged through a lot of s**t a child should never see, and stupidly enough, because I look like my Dad and because I am my father's son.
If I did one thing to set her off, it'd be a pretty relentless battle between the both of us. Simple things like not doing homework or not cleaning my room and she would see to it that I was called every insult imaginable, and I usually copped a bit of a hiding too. I still have photos from some of the stuff she inflicted on me, and I lived in fear of my mother for a lot my childhood, but I still loved her and I couldn't see past what was going on due to that.
I had gone through a lot and because of that I became a rebellious teenager during my young teenage years (From age 13). I'd skip school a heck of a lot, I'd talk back to her, I'd irritate people, I'd do stupid things.... A lot of teenagers do these kinds of things, yes, but If you listened to my mum then I was the reincarnation of the Devil. Things had gotten so bad when I was 15, that I couldn't go home without having a fight with her or my brother, and she was literally seconds away from sending me to Assumption College boarding school because she couldn't handle it. (Rightly so).
The thought of being away from the only family I saw on a regular basis scared me enough to ship up or shape out. And I transferred to a new class away from people that were influencing me, and generally became a better person (with a few hiccups here and there.)
From Age 16, things were quite a bit better with my mother, but triggers to past events or me slipping up every now and then would still start a heck of an argument. I just had to ask her to see my Dad's parents for her not to talk to me for the whole week. And just talking back to her when she's in a bad mood would be enough to send a rolling pin flying at my legs. Still, I didn't know much else. And I'm not to judge if it's right or wrong, maybe I did deserve it. Who knows?
Now, on the other side of the spectrum. Things with her and my brother were much much different.
He was born 2 years before my Dad passed away, and didn't see what I had to see/didn't experience what I had to go through. He doesn't remember my Dad.
Unfortunately for me, due to this, my Mum always saw my brother as the one who "wasn't corrupted" by these events, and sort of like the golden child.
She always referred to him as "MY son" and not "HIS son" (What I used to be called, referring to my father). She frequently praised him with lines like "You'll never mess up like your brother did" and "I'll always love you more than your brother because you're not corrupted by lies like he is.", she even told me straight to my face, that I won't be loved as much as my brother because of everything that happened in the past. Believe me, This hurt. But I wasn't prepared to move out of home or anything because of it, the odd moment of affection from her was enough for me.
Still though, like I mentioned, this tension between us caused the odd spotfire here and there, and It wasn't a healthy environment to be in when it did get physical.
Now that the backstory is over.
I turned 18, I got a car, I started working, things were probably the best they had ever been at that time. This lasted for about 8 months and then everything came crashing down.
I fell into depression during the end of 2014 (was still 18), mainly due to being overworked in an environment I wasn't enjoying (repetitive job), and also just a ton of residual build up from everything that's happened in the past. I broke down pretty badly and had to leave my job in January 2015.
My Mum didn't like this as I started freeloading, and I wasn't the best of people to be around while depressed.
In March 2015 I started a traineeship in computer engineering. It was made out to be a lot more than it actually was, I thought I was going to be working with computers for the whole day, instead I got stuck inside a factory working on computers for 2 hours and for the rest of the day had to help Pakistani Men move and ship TV's, Audio equipment, and old PC parts. This was hugely tiring on top of my depression and something that didn't help me is that during lunch breaks they wouldn't speak English, they'd only speak Urdu amongst themselves. There was 4 of them and then only me so I didn't fit in at all and I felt like an outcast. (However I have nothing against these guys at all, as well as Pakistani men in general, so don't get the wrong idea. These were some of the nicest blokes when they did have the opportunity to deal with me. We even bonded over some things, like the Cricket. The lunch incidents were the only times where I felt disrespected and In hindsight I should have brought this up to them.)
Above all that though, the problem I had with the whole thing is that what they had been asking me to do was absolutely not how the traineeship was advertised and there was very little computer work going on. This is no fault of their own, as my Job Agency was the one who set me up with this and provided me with all the wrong info. (Silly job agency person walks into a factory with computers and thinks that because there are a lot of computers there then there'd be a lot of work ON computers to do and that It'd be perfect for me.) - Whatever, she had the right intentions for me I guess.
I mentioned in the last paragraph, this traineeship only lasted for 2 whole days.
On the third day after not sleeping all night I broke down at 7am crying thinking that I was useless because I couldn't fit in with them and because the opportunity wasn't what I thought it'd be. I knew in my head I wasn't going back because of all this, I just wouldn't allow myself to go back, and it disappointed me. My mum saw me hysterical and she screamed at me saying I needed antidepressants and that if I didn't get antidepressants then I'd be like this forever and I was becoming a burden to her. So I drove to my Local GP who I had been seeing for about 6 years at the time. She was never any good at her job, she was never quite sure about things and tended to misdiagnose me and my brother a lot, my Mum only liked her because she was very local and was quick and easy to get into. No waiting at all. Her practice was almost always empty, and this should have been enough to give us alarm bells... (But Hey, she's a Doctor and I'm just some guy on the internet so I guess she did something right.)
I told the Doctor I was depressed, explained a little of what happened, and without any further assessment besides the fact that she knew me and my mum and brother, she chucked me a prescription for antidepressants that same day.
When I got on the antidepressants, they changed me, they made me my rebellious early teen self again, Angry at the world, Always wondering why, Doing reckless things without thought of consequence, the list goes on. They made me feel very numb to reality and I turned into somebody with no emotions at all. For example, I'm usually a very law abiding person and would never harm people intentionally if it broke the law, this includes when driving. However on Antidepressants I would speed in my car (Around people) and not think about the consequences if I hit someone or how it'd affect the people around me. I thought I was a hero and I had no moral conscience at all.
TL;DR VERSION: I had a bad childhood, my Mum and I never got along due to things that happened with my father and after my father's death. We fought a lot. I always felt like my brother was better treated. Caused a lot of tension between all 3 of us...
---SKIP HERE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ THE BACKSTORY---
If you skipped here and didn't read the backstory. Then you should because I tried to make it a good read, and, y'know, my life is interesting. But yes, this is a thread about demonizing men and it's not a thread about my life story so I don't blame you if you're only here for what you came for.
However If you have just read all that and you're still here by this point, I thank you. Some of you may already know my story or know some parts of it, but regardless I thought it would be good practice to give an outline of how the past affected what I'm about to write about.
So now I come to the part where I truly feel I was victimized as a male.
April 2015.
I won't mention the date, but I remember this day very vividly. 2 days before my 19th Birthday, something that I thought could never happen, did happen, and in a big way.
Because I was unemployed and on antidepressants at the time, I had to attend my Job Agency as a requirement for Centrelink. I explained to them that I was having issues at home and my Mum wasn't dealing with my depression very well, and they gave me a sheet of paper outlining a bunch of services that could help with her better understand what was going on, counselling, etc.
Now, if there was one thing my Mum hated the most (Even though she hated a lot of things), It'd be getting told how to do her job as a parent.
She raised both me and my brother as a single Mum after my father's death, and takes a lot of pride in that. I respect that, she might have screwed me over along the way, but at least she kept us with a roof over our heads and food on the table. That's one thing I can never fault her for.
My mother would hate being told she had bad parenting skills (which my Dad's family had said a lot), and she'd go absolutely furious if someone tried to interfere with her raising of me and my brother.
So this day I came home with that sheet of paper containing family help services, and didn't show it to her. Instead I sat down on the couch in the living room and watched TV with her until I decided to go and see what my brother was up to. I walked into his room and told him that it was very messy and that he should clean it up. He was annoyed by this and he screamed out to my Mum telling her to tell me to shut up. My Mum reacted badly and said that my room was messy too so I shouldn't be one to talk. (Yes, it was very messy. I never enjoyed cleaning and especially not while depressed. It was 3x worse than my brother's room, at least.) - But, the conversation should have ended there. Instead she walked up to my room upstairs and told me it was a pigsty and I should clean it immediately. I refused but did agree to clean it later on, however she wasn't satisfied and proceeded to insult me by calling me filthy, a pig, etc, it was probably deserved. The room was trash, but I didn't like the way I was being insulted. I told her that I'm very depressed and that she isn't helping with that at all, and then she told me that if I wasn't happy with living in that house then to get out and stop living there.
I told her I didn't want that, and said to her (Sarcastically) that the Job Agency gave me a sheet of paper with organizations that can help her become a better parent. Yes, I know, I criticized her parenting, and that was my big mistake on that day.
She went furious and said that if I was mouthing out to other people about her parenting, then I definitely didn't deserve to live there and she wanted me out straight away. She told me to go Centrelink and ask them for a place to live because clearly living with her wasn't good enough for me. She was serious. She really wanted me out then and there, Now, I'd been kicked out before, for a couple weeks here and there, stayed at my Grandparents (Dad's parents) - but it was never a permanent thing. It was more of a "I can't deal with you right now so I need a break" kind of thing. But this time it was serious and at 19 she had enough of me but I wasn't prepared to leave as I had no plans for anything at all.
She got upset at my refusal to leave and threatened to throw all my stuff out if I didn't leave right then and there. She walked away, went outside for a cigarette, and told me that If I wasn't packing by the time she came back inside she would come up and throw said stuff out. I didn't know what to do, and the antidepressants I was on made me very confused about my emotions and what was happening. I sat at the top of the stairs waiting for her to inevitably come back in and start something with me. And when she did come inside she ran upstairs and started reaching at my clothes that were on the landing point at the top of the stairs. All I did was stand my ground at the top of the stairs and turned my phone camera on to video record what she was doing. I'm a decently tall guy (6'1) and weighed a fair bit back then (110kg), she was around 5'10, 70kg. So naturally she couldn't budge me but she surely did give it her best shot. She got upset at me recording her little fit of rage and she and told me to turn it off, but I refused, and she then tried to break my phone. So with one arm I'm trying to hold my ground at the top of the stairs, and with my other arm I'm trying to avoid her swinging at my phone. I don't know how I did it, I really don't know how, it must have been the adrenaline, but I managed to avoid getting any part of my phone broken at that time. She was coming at me with, what I would say, all of her force, as it was obvious she was unable to really move me without it. And she really did seem on a mission to remove my stuff from the property. After what I would say was about 30 mins of this unnecessary shoving at the top of the stairs, she backed off, started calling me a bunch of insults like "pathetic", "loser", "a creep", and "useless" (but I was used to all this by then) - and then she went back downstairs for another smoke. And told me to be gone once again.
I probably should have left, regardless of whether my stuff was there or not, but I stupidly stayed at the top of the stairs again. And she came back, once again. She tried the same thing as before, and she started screaming in frustration, my brother then heard what was going on and she told him to get her phone to record me. So my brother then stood at the bottom of the stairs recording the both of us in our little squabble, equipped with a rolling pin in his other hand because the poor thing was obviously frightened by what was going on. (He was 12 at the time. I'm sure he didn't want to see any of this.)
However, his video, the recording on the bottom of the stairs, looked REALLY bad on me. Because all you could see from that angle was her trying to get to the top of the stairs, and me, male, tall, big, blah blah blah, standing at the top of the stairs with his arms outstretched.
The constant arguing went on for another 15 or so minutes I'd say, with her taking breaks and sitting down insulting me and then trying to come back up again when she caught her breath. (Smokers, right?)
Eventually, she had enough. She told me that this whole thing was pathetic and she was going to the cops to get me removed from the household. She then walked downstairs and took my brother and was about to leave to go the police station when I begged her not to. I told her there's no need for this, it's going to cause unnecessary trouble between us, and that I would have everything clean if she didn't go to the cops and we can just settle down a bit.
She told me that she wouldn't go to the Police, on one condition. And that condition was if I deleted the video recordings I had of her from our incident previously. I said yep, that's fine, let's forget about this. I told her that I'd delete my recordings if she deleted hers on her phone that my brother took. She told me to delete mine first. Alarm bells immediately went off in my head and I knew that she was trying to hide what really went on and that she wasn't fully confident that what really happened when looking at it fairly, matched up with what happened in her head where I was supposedly a demon.
I'm not an idiot, nobody can take me for an idiot, I've been taught all my life that any evidence is good evidence and if someone has evidence against you then you're screwed unless you have evidence against them. I had a suspicion that if I deleted my videos first, she wouldn't delete hers afterwards and go to the cops regardless. So I refused to delete them and she drove to the Police station with my brother.
I panicked, didn't know what to do, walked around in circles for 10 minutes, and then drove to my grandparents house. (Dad's parents)
They know my mum, they know what she's like, they know what she's capable of, they know our relationship, they saw my videos and said that I have absolutely nothing to fear and that she looks like an absolute idiot. My grandma told me to go to the police and explain who I am, and then explain what happened and give them my evidence because my side of the story didn't look too bad.
I did just that, and arrived at the same Police station my mother went to (this was about 30 minutes after she had arrived there I would think) - and they immediately knew who I was and after hearing my name they told me I need to go with them. They took all my stuff I had on me (Phone, wallet, car keys), and put me in a detention room without asking me anything else or asking how I was. They just said "You need to come with us you're going into detention" and explained nothing at all. I asked them if I could explain my side of the story first and they told me I'd get a chance later.
This really scared me, I've never been in jail, I've never been accused of a crime, I don't have a criminal record, I'm not the type of person to have run-ins with the police.
I was in a pretty secure detention room for about an hour, I couldn't really tell the time because I didn't have my phone with me and there was no clock. But it felt like MORE than an hour in my head. I had nothing but my own thoughts of what had just transpired. Eventually a Female police officer opened the door and told me to come with her, she gave me back my stuff and sat me down in an interview room and explained that I was put in detention because my mother had fears about her own safety around me. She then only allowed me to BRIEFLY explain my side of the story and I will never forget this Police Officer's name because she made me feel like a downright criminal. She explained that they have put an intervention order on me after seeing her video and that I wouldn't be able to go within 500m of my mum or brother, her work, or his school. I wouldn't be allowed to contact them at all and all contact should be done via the police as a third party until the 8th of April where we had to go to a magistrates court to review this. There were great consequences if I broke this IVO before the court date. So before they have even heard my side of the story (BECAUSE there is 2 sides to every story), they put an intervention order on me separating me from my family, and also sent me to court. I asked this officer who I was with in the interview room "What about my video?" (You know, the one that made HER look nuts) - She told me that she didn't want to see it at this time and that I should EMAIL it to her. She gave me her card and I was sent on my way.
I spent that week at my grandparents, deeply upset, I was basically living out of a garbage bag until the 8th as all my Mum had dropped off for me was a few pairs of clothes. I had none of my other possessions given to me.
I made a big mistake, and didn't send my video to this officer via email, as I was furious with her and the situation. This is where I probably stuffed up.
I got to court on the 8th of April and I felt pretty confident that things would get resolved and that my mum would have calmed down and I'd go back to living there but I was shocked as after waiting 2 hours in the court waiting room I was told by a senior Police officer that the intervention order was being extended to 1 year under POLICE request. I said "Why?" and they told me that they're really cracking down on family violence and that violence in the family is unacceptable. The officer explained to me that because I was a male it really looked bad on me scrapping it out with a woman and especially my mother and that's how they came to the decision. I said to him that I have photos from previous incidents where I have bruises and cuts and scrapes all over my arm and neck and head from when she tried to strangle me and also various other photos that show ME being the victim and he simply said. "I don't want to see them. Not relevant to this case."
They told me that I could dispute the decision and take it to a higher court, pay money, but if I lost the case then I would have a criminal record. OR I could just accept this IVO without admitting to anything and not be called a criminal and that would be it unless I broke the IVO. I took the sensible option because I'm not a criminal and just accepted it. But this still gutted me. I dragged myself in front of the judge who then gave the order.
I was given a copy of the order before I left court, and the things written about me in the statement made me look like I had just attempted to murder somebody. Apparently my mum was fearing for her life and that she was worried I was going to push her down the stairs. I was made to look totally evil and I read the statement to this day and it still disgusts me what is written. I'll tell you one thing though, if someone is truly fearing for their life, they do not provoke the situation any more. They flee immediately. If she truly did fear for her life, she wouldn't have spent an hour of her life trying to fight with me on the top of the stairs. It's called the fight or flight response, it's human instincts, when we're in a situation we know is dangerous, we panic, and basic survival instincts kick in. Can we run away? Is it safe to? If it is, then defuse the situation and run. If the only chance is to fight, then and only then you fight. This is what would have happened if she was truly scared, but she wasn't scared. She wanted this to happen.
For the record, during our incident, not one punch was thrown, not from me not from her. It was purely pushing back and forth. Not once did I ever think of hurting her seriously by pushing or punching her down the stairs. As you could imagine, her standing on only one step at the top flight, at any time she could have fallen backwards or at any time I could have overpowered her and knocked her backwards, down the stairs, to a potential serious injury/death. I'm not that kind of person, through my actions It was obviously I had no intention of hurting her. But I was certainly treated like I did.
The rest of that day was a blur, I won't explain what I did to myself.
On my next Job Agency appointment, I was made to feel like a disgusting person. I explained to my (female) support worker what happened with my mother, and she immediately told me to stand up. I did. She told me to come up to her and stand in front of her. I did. And then she said to me. "Look how tall you are compared to me. I am a woman. If you put your hands on me, you'd be stronger than me because you are bigger. You are bigger than your mum and you should NEVER put your hands on a woman, especially your mother, regardless of what is happening, because you're stronger than a woman"
I was shocked. She was standing there making me feel like an absolute piece of s**t. I tried to explain what was going through my head at that time but she wouldn't listen. She just told me that it was unacceptable to put a hands on a woman regardless of the circumstances.
I didn't say anything to her about this afterwards, I kept quiet but on the drive back I felt like such an awful person and began to question myself.
I transferred to a new Job Agency immediately afterwards and never spoke to her again. I should have filed for harassment but I don't think that works unless I'm a female. :/ (....)
-----------------------
So there you go. All of this happened a year and a half ago. But I just basically described 2 incidents (both related). Where it felt like I was being victimized as a male.
I didn't proof read everything that I have just written because honestly it's a lot to go through, so I am sorry for any grammar or spelling errors.
Make what you will of the story. As I said, there is 2 sides to every story but If you did read all that then I'd love to hear your opinion.
Am I wrong to feel like a victim of the way society is heading at the moment?
Cheers all.
Temploar
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Hmmm I never considered being a stripper but if you say so....
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
- Thread starter
- #193
I read the whole post, Temploar. It sounds as though you got railroaded and that maybe you would have benefitted from some solid legal advice at the earliest possible stage.
I can understand your frustration with your support worker too; the idea that you should never lay hands on a woman is nonsensical, you should never put your hands on anybody... and by your account you used quite a bit of restraint to ensure the situation did not become violent. It certainly sounded like an unnecessary confrontation though, which all concerned would have been better off without.
I know your Mum is your Mum, but it's the truth that some people are not built to be parents; your Mum making her preference amongst her children so explicit is strong evidence that she might fall into this category. I personally would cease all contact with her, but that's just me.
I hope you get the help you need and manage to get the most out of yourself, you sound like an intelligent, insightful person.
I can understand your frustration with your support worker too; the idea that you should never lay hands on a woman is nonsensical, you should never put your hands on anybody... and by your account you used quite a bit of restraint to ensure the situation did not become violent. It certainly sounded like an unnecessary confrontation though, which all concerned would have been better off without.
I know your Mum is your Mum, but it's the truth that some people are not built to be parents; your Mum making her preference amongst her children so explicit is strong evidence that she might fall into this category. I personally would cease all contact with her, but that's just me.
I hope you get the help you need and manage to get the most out of yourself, you sound like an intelligent, insightful person.
Temploar
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Thank you all for your honest replies. I feel much more sound with not speaking to her now.
The same thing happened with me man. It doesn't mean you will never see your Mum again... once you get sorted with everything you can pop around for a visit every 2 months probably for an hour and bail out when she starts giving you the shits and it will be all good. Part of being an adult is realising your parents aren't perfect, nobody is perfect...
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
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- #197
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...emanding-tougher-sentences-violent-women.html
This one already had a criminal record. The mind boggles.
This one already had a criminal record. The mind boggles.
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Ah, so you already have your excuse built in
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
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