It's time to talk about Lachie...(Deadly from the pockets, Sprays it from everywhere else edition)

FoochPackage

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I will have to check the spread sheets Mantis, it depends fully on whether you think he is a good player.
For the record would I have offered him a five year deal ? NO.
Do I blame him for signing said deal ? NO.
Do I think he contributes without being a star ? YES.

Question for you: Does any team have a full list of Marcus Bontempelli types ?

The ratio of Lachie Hunter types is very much higher.
Players who cannot hit a target more than 15m away?? Yeah, not alot of wingmen out there like that bud. Hurry get isaac smith in so i dont have to see lach kick the pill inside 50.
 

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Golden_6

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He is frustrating me a lot lately. Imagine how much more deadly our team would be if Brad Hill was getting 25 touches a game instead on the wing.

He won't be going anywhere though, so we will have to get used to him racking it up 25+ on the wing for the next 5 years.
 

Yojimbo

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Players who cannot hit a target more than 15m away?? Yeah, not alot of wingmen out there like that bud. Hurry get isaac smith in so i dont have to see lach kick the pill inside 50.
We are talking about a guy that won a B&F right and has played every game so far this year unless you
are saying that the coach and MC have no clue. He is a role player a (Defensive Wingman) who helps
mask the ineptness of our defensive group.
 

FoochPackage

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We are talking about a guy that won a B&F right and has played every game so far this year unless you
are saying that the coach and MC have no clue. He is a role player a (Defensive Wingman) who helps
mask the ineptness of our defensive group.
Call it whatever you like. He is a liability with the pill. End of story.
 

dish licker

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As a supporter he managed to deflate me on Sunday running in or towards fifty and well, nothing. Must deflate his team mates too.
 

WallyStringhaus

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Is the Lachie Hunter decline entwined with the Caleb Daniel rise ?
I think the game has just changed too much since 2016 my friend. Scoring off opposition turnover is so pivotal to kicking a winning score.

Hunter has shown not only can he not capitalise on the chances we create but he consistently makes unforced turnovers that we just can't defend.

It's a lethal combination my man...
 

Yojimbo

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I think the game has just changed too much since 2016 my friend. Scoring off opposition turnover is so pivotal to kicking a winning score.

Hunter has shown not only can he not capitalise on the chances we create but he consistently makes unforced turnovers that we just can't defend.

It's a lethal combination my man...
Agree fully the scores from turnovers statistic is the most easily utilised by opposition teams and never
has the impact of possession been so pivotal. We would have had to had 450 possessions to Brisbanes
300 just to break even and even then the more we have it the better for Brisbane on the turnover.
 

dogwatch

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Pick 49 (An epic journey over time) 2018 to 2000:

2018: Bailey Scott F/S North Melbourne (4 Games)
2017: Jordan Houlahan Essendon (0 Games)
2016: Lewis Young Western Bulldogs (11 Games)
2015: Bailey Rice F/S St Kilda (11 Games)
2014: Teia Miles Hawthorn (12 Games)
2013: Dylan Main West Coast (Delisted 0 Games)
2012: LACHIE HUNTER F/S Western Bulldogs (124 Games)
2011: Daniel Pearce Western Bulldogs (Delisted 6 Games)
2010: Jacob Gilbee Gold Coast (Delisted 6 Games)
2009: Dylan Roberton Fremantle (128 Games)
2008: Taylor Hunt Geelong (Delisted 105 Games)
2007: Mitch Farmer Port Adelaide (Delisted 31 Games)
2006: Daniel Currie Sydney (Delisted 10 Games)
2005: Michael Rix St Kilda (Delisted 29 Games)
2004: Mark McGough St Kilda (Delisted 12 Games)
2003: Tom Logan Brisbane (Delisted 117 Games)
2002: Cameron Wight Western Bulldogs (Delisted 36 Games)
2001: Josh Houlihan St Kilda (Delisted 0 Games)
2000: Shane Wakelin Collingwood (Delisted 158 Games)

Lachie Hunter is destined to play the most number of games for a pick 49 since the year 2000
although that Bailey Scott looks a likely type of player.
The fact that he was a FS selection meant he went lower than if he was available to all clubs. I think Norf placed a bid on him with a pick in the high 30s. Our earlier pick was #21 (Hrovat) and our next was #49, so that's all we had to outlay to get him. That was before the current points system was introduced to reduce the impact of this sort of anomaly.

Then there's the story that was going around that his best form had been hidden from recruiters during his draft year by playing him in unaccustomed or unsuited roles. No idea if it's true but I think comparing him to other pick 49s over the history of the draft is not very meaningful.

FWIW I think he's a very good player. Certainly not elite, but very good. His disposal is often frustrating but can also be quite effective at other times. He cops a lot of criticism when he has a down game or causes a few turnovers but then he'll come out and play a BoG game. He does a lot of good things that are underappreciated here. His Charles Sutton Medal in 2018 was no fluke. He's consistently up there.
 

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WallyStringhaus

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The fact that he was a FS selection meant he went lower than if he was available to all clubs. I think Norf placed a bid on him with a pick in the high 30s. Our earlier pick was #21 (Hrovat) and our next was #49, so that's all we had to outlay to get him. That was before the current points system was introduced to reduce the impact of this sort of anomaly.

Then there's the story that was going around that his best form had been hidden from recruiters during his draft year by playing him in unaccustomed or unsuited roles. No idea if it's true but I think comparing him to other pick 49s over the history of the draft is not very meaningful.

FWIW I think he's a very good player. Certainly not elite, but very good. His disposal is often frustrating but can also be quite effective at other times. He cops a lot of criticism when he has a down game or causes a few turnovers but then he'll come out and play a BoG game. He does a lot of good things that are underappreciated here. His Charles Sutton Medal in 2018 was no fluke. He's consistently up there.
It will be interesting to see where he finishes in the CSM this year DW. What's your thoughts? He is yet to poll a BOG in the Ching this year and I think he sits about 8th in our voting prior to last weekend.
 

Braybrook Son

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The fact that he has played football all his life and cannot kick 40 metres on his good foot with any penetration or speed is damning. It’s a disgrace really. Similarly with his handballing.

Even I was kicking 40 metres easily when I was a young teen and that’s not an exaggeration. I think this goes for most on here hence the frustration.
Look at his size, a lot of smaller guys can’t kick very far. Jose Romero used to only kick 35 metres and was about that same height as Hunter.
 

Dry Rot

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I think the game has just changed too much since 2016 my friend. Scoring off opposition turnover is so pivotal to kicking a winning score.

Hunter has shown not only can he not capitalise on the chances we create but he consistently makes unforced turnovers that we just can't defend.

It's a lethal combination my man...
Are his shortcomings fixable?
 

SlimShaddy

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Look at his size, a lot of smaller guys can’t kick very far. Jose Romero used to only kick 35 metres and was about that same height as Hunter.
Duryea is 4cm shorter.
McLean is shorter
Lloyd is shorter
Libba same height
Roarke Smith is shorter
Daniel is shorter.

All better and longer kicks.
Cordy is 10cm taller and much worse.
 

doggiesmrx

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Im certainly not off him. I think we forget how good some of his games have been in the past. His game Sunday was complete trash but let’s now look to see how he backs up Saturday night. He works his backside off between forward and back. Just wish he could be a little more damaging moving forward with the footy.
 

WallyStringhaus

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Are his shortcomings fixable?
They should be. The guy was lethal in the 2016 finals, playing on instinct and putting the ball in dangerous spots.

Think of our 2nd goal in the GF. Crumbs the marking contest and kicks a 40m bullet down the throat of Tory without hesitation.

The semi against the Hawks when he squared up the ball from the boundary to a dangerous spot and Clay did the rest.

He had 7 assists from 16 inside 50's in the 2016 finals. He's had 7 assists from 80+ inside 50's this season.

He has gone from being one of the most damaging wings in the game to the least damaging.

I was hoping he was just down on confidence but the trend has unfortunately continued.

The modern game with the current rules in place has shown that swift, decisive and accurate ball movement is paramount. Particularly important is that outside runner who accumulates loads of uncontested possessions and puts the ball inside 50. Lachie is that guy for us and he needs to do a better job.
 

stefoid

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FWIW https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Compare?playerIds=CD_I294557,CD_I295584&comparisonTab=h2h

Not totally dissimilar. outside wingers to be sure.

Biggest differences are Hill kicks the ball a lot more, and Hunter marks the ball a lot more. So Hunter runs to provide an option a lot, whereas Im guessing Hill is more of a handball receive type.

Given their respective strengths, youd probably rather see Lachie as a the defensive wingman and Hill the offensive one, yet bizarrely their I50s and RB50s are the opposite of that. LH heatmap shows he gets half of his possessions wide left wing, forward of center. Hill gets a lot of his on the right wing in the defensive half.
 

dogwatch

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It will be interesting to see where he finishes in the CSM this year DW. What's your thoughts? He is yet to poll a BOG in the Ching this year and I think he sits about 8th in our voting prior to last weekend.
Since you mention the Ching, here are the top 10 at the end of 2018.
Macrae56
Bontempelli43
Hunter41
McLean39.5
Crozier17
Dunkley16
Johannisen12
Daniel11
Wallis11
Suckling11
Hunter, as you say, is not within a bull's roar of that this year. (McLean's another interesting one but that's for a "Let's Talk About Toby" thread). IIRC Hunter has finished top 3 in the CSM on a few occasions so MC probably rate him higher than we do.

My guess is between 5th and 8th in the CSM. I doubt he gets a podium spot.
 

Yojimbo

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More useless statistics on Lachie Hunter:

In his 124 Game career he topped 30 Disposals 32 Times, including a staggering 12 times in 2018 which
was more than the total for the Richmond football club who were minor premiers in 2018.

In his 124 Game career he was under 20 Disposals on 40 occasions including 21 in his first two seasons,
he was under 20 Disposals in the 2016 Prelim and Grand Finals which could open him up to choking
allegations when on the biggest stage.

Lachie Hunter wonders why the Rice Bubbles make noise when you add the milk and yet are quiet when
in the cereal box.

Marcus Bontempelli: Bonus edition and complex dissection of his magnificent 123 Game career as he
was drafted the same time as Lachie Hunter, Games 30 Disposals or more 13 times and Games under
20 Disposals 31 Times also 21 in his first two years. The Bont is not freaked out by Rice Bubbles.
 
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DognBones

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Since you mention the Ching, here are the top 10 at the end of 2018.
Macrae56
Bontempelli43
Hunter41
McLean39.5
Crozier17
Dunkley16
Johannisen12
Daniel11
Wallis11
Suckling11
Hunter, as you say, is not within a bull's roar of that this year. (McLean's another interesting one but that's for a "Let's Talk About Toby" thread). IIRC Hunter has finished top 3 in the CSM on a few occasions so MC probably rate him higher than we do.

My guess is between 5th and 8th in the CSM. I doubt he gets a podium spot.
To be fair, sometimes negative comments breed more negative comments and to some extent, this is the situation on this board. There is now so much discussion on Hunter's deficiencies that this could result in him being dismissed in Ching voting even when he plays very good games. Looking at his career statistics (and yes they don't tell the whole story), Hunter's output is pretty consistent with previous seasons.
I suppose we could also look at it in another way, this year more than previous, observers have placed his disposal and his "holding up the play" under much more scrutiny.
Clearly, the balance of opinion has shifted to the negative but I suspect that Hunter's game will always be thus and we will just have to take the good with the bad. I'd still rather have him in our team before the vast majority of good wingmen in the comp.
 

dogwatch

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More useless statistics on Lachie Hunter:

In his 124 Game career he topped 30 Disposals 32 Times, including a staggering 12 times in 2018 which
was more than the total for the Richmond football club who were minor premiers in 2018.

In his 124 Game career he was under 20 Disposals on 40 occasions including 21 in his first two seasons,
he was under 20 Disposals in the 2016 Prelim and Grand Finals which could open him up to choking
allegations when on the biggest stage.

Lachie Hunter wonders why the Rice Bubbles make noise when you add the milk and yet are quiet when
in the cereal box.

Marcus Bontempelli: Bonus edition and complex dissection of his magnificent 123 Game career as he
was drafted the same time as Lachie Hunter, Games 30 Disposals or more 13 times and Games under
20 Disposals 31 Times also 21 in his first two years. The Bont is not freaked out by Rice Bubbles.
The current exchange rate is 1 Bont Disposal (BD) = 3.874 Hunter Disposals (HD).

If I was you Yojimbo I'd be offloading my HDs before they get above 4 to the BD. (That's assuming you're still holding some HDs in your portfolio, along with all those SHOs.)
 

dogwatch

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To be fair, sometimes negative comments breed more negative comments and to some extent, this is the situation on this board. There is now so much discussion on Hunter's deficiencies that this could result in him being dismissed in Ching voting even when he plays very good games. Looking at his career statistics (and yes they don't tell the whole story), Hunter's output is pretty consistent with previous seasons.
I suppose we could also look at it in another way, this year more than previous, observers have placed his disposal and his "holding up the play" under much more scrutiny.
Clearly, the balance of opinion has shifted to the negative but I suspect that Hunter's game will always be thus and we will just have to take the good with the bad. I'd still rather have him in our team before the vast majority of good wingmen in the comp.
Hunter was under BF scrutiny before this year. This thread gave that scrutiny a permanent home and it was started in early June last year, but questions were being asked before then IIRC. I do think his output is slightly down this year (haven't checked the stats) but he's been very good at times.

Anyway, I agree with most of what you said. I continue to have mixed feelings about him. In some ways I'm reminded of another F/S player in Darren Baxter. He was a prolific ball getter but didn't really hurt the opposition that much. We controversially offloaded him to Hawthorn in 1993 while he had some value but his career tailed off and he only played two seasons with them. I can't remember the full context but I think it was partly about the trade value itself and partly to get a different, more damaging skillset into the midfield.

Now Hunter is much better than Baxter was and I'm not suggesting we trade him, but I can't help but wonder if he wasn't there would we have splashed out on an Isaac Smith or a Brad Hill before now?
 

DognBones

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Hunter was under BF scrutiny before this year. This thread gave that scrutiny a permanent home and it was started in early June last year, but questions were being asked before then IIRC. I do think his output is slightly down this year (haven't checked the stats) but he's been very good at times.

Anyway, I agree with most of what you said. I continue to have mixed feelings about him. In some ways I'm reminded of another F/S player in Darren Baxter. He was a prolific ball getter but didn't really hurt the opposition that much. We controversially offloaded him to Hawthorn in 1993 while he had some value but his career tailed off and he only played two seasons with them. I can't remember the full context but I think it was partly about the trade value itself and partly to get a different, more damaging skillset into the midfield.

Now Hunter is much better than Baxter was and I'm not suggesting we trade him, but I can't help but wonder if he wasn't there would we have splashed out on an Isaac Smith or a Brad Hill before now?
Just to correct you on one comment. Darren Baxter averaged only 14.8 disposals throughout his career and achieved over 20 on two occasions only (1991-2). Don't worry, that surprised me too.
However, you are correct regarding his disposal which, more often than not, was high and loopy much like Hunter's.
Perhaps your last comment is a bit hypothetical, you could make the same suggestion about many of the players on our list, indeed, any list.
 

dogwatch

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Just to correct you on one comment. Darren Baxter averaged only 14.8 disposals throughout his career and achieved over 20 on two occasions only (1991-2). Don't worry, that surprised me too.
However, you are correct regarding his disposal which, more often than not, was high and loopy much like Hunter's.
Perhaps your last comment is a bit hypothetical, you could make the same suggestion about many of the players on our list, indeed, any list.
Yes that's why Baxter's departure was a bit controversial. He was seen as hitting a career peak over those two years and there were a few eyebrows raised when he was sent on his way. Turned out to be the correct decision in my view, and all the more difficult because he was the son of Ray Baxter who played 80 games for us in the late 50s/early 60s.

I do think Hunter's situation is different - almost unique - in that he has won a CSM and would be close to "untouchable" status at the club. Most of the other senior players with clear deficiencies are not "untouchable", so it's much easier for the club to contemplate a best 22 without any particular one of them. Easton Wood is perhaps the only other player in a similar situation on our list.
 
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