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- #26
Laurence Angwin might have been alot of things, but a dud he was not.
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It's Time
- Thread starter Caramelas13
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With a good side I think Craig has the potential to be a premiership coach... What I question is his ability to be a coach that can effectively rebuild a side. The last 18 months should have been spent predominantely rebuilding, but instead we've been extremely conservative and have played the same ageing players that will never take us to a premiership. With a few minor exceptions, we really don't have a hell of a lot to show from the last 18 months...
Caramelas13
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- Thread starter
- #28
What do you mean by saying he wasn't a dud? What did he ever to for the AFC?
Whole bunch of pathetic over-reaction in this thread.
We don't have the personnel on our list at the moment due to the Ayres era. Simple as that. NC is the most capable coach of turning this list around and he has shown that time and time again. We will see more of Walker, Otten, MacKay, Dangerfield, Kite etc soon enough. We are already playing Vince, Douglas, Tippett, van Berlo, Knights, Maric and Moran who will all be part of our next flag with Rutten, Bock, Johncock, Reilly, Thompson, Porps and so on.
We don't have the personnel on our list at the moment due to the Ayres era. Simple as that. NC is the most capable coach of turning this list around and he has shown that time and time again. We will see more of Walker, Otten, MacKay, Dangerfield, Kite etc soon enough. We are already playing Vince, Douglas, Tippett, van Berlo, Knights, Maric and Moran who will all be part of our next flag with Rutten, Bock, Johncock, Reilly, Thompson, Porps and so on.
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Caramelas13
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- Thread starter
- #30
So you're saying we will win a flag within the next 5-6 years?
I don’t see how Burgoyne or Cornes would improve out position at the moment ? Agree we have made some disastrous calls in the past regarding draft picks but I would also argue that we have made some beauties which Reid is also apart of.
On the Bode topic – had it not been for injury he would have been worth the pick and he showed that every time he played for the Crows.
The problem the Crows fans have at the moment is they are seeing Hawthorn, The Western Bulldogs and to a lesser extent St Kilda who bottomed out and are having success but this is because they tanked whole seasons.
A real AFC supporter would not want this to happen, you cannot just cut every player in one year and play a bunch of 21 yr old and expect the team to go forward in a season, if we Craig was to delist everyone he sees as not being part of the next premiership he virtually denying the club a flag for the next ten years as we recover from 5 years of bottom of the Barrel stuff.
The process of removing players each year like we have is going to be the best way to do it so you have a team that is still winning and does not get the culture of losing like many Victorian clubs had for a while. Its just plain irresponsible to just “play the youngsters” and you are more likely to put them back in their development from constant beltings than move forward.
Wait until the end of the season, I reckon we are going to see some interesting delistings, I just hope we don’t have the complaints we got last year.
C13, if you feel the need to jump off the bandwagon feel free to do it. Just hope it doesn't run over you on the way out of the station.
I mean FFS, channeling Alan Scott much?
Sheer stupidity as a post, we wins 6 of 7 showdowns, than loses one (which I'm sure is all his fault
while we're severely undermanned) and he's never going to win a premiership.
You sir are an idiot who would be better off supporting our cousins from across town if you're going to eat your own that quickly
I mean FFS, channeling Alan Scott much?
Sheer stupidity as a post, we wins 6 of 7 showdowns, than loses one (which I'm sure is all his fault
while we're severely undermanned) and he's never going to win a premiership.You sir are an idiot who would be better off supporting our cousins from across town if you're going to eat your own that quickly
As has been stated, we have a void in the key 24-28 year old bracket of our playing group. That's Ayres responsibility, and will take a while to address.
Regarding the bet, are you going to put any terms/conditions upon it?
What’s your point?
My point was, in round 16 1996 we appeared to be a million miles away from winning a premiership. The same can be said for right now however if you step back and look at the bigger picture, anything can happen in a very short period of time.
Just as it did over the summer in 96/97
Just on Carmelas and JR; my understanding is that Reid didn't make those decisions, Gary Ayres did.
Shhh, he's not a good scapegoat when people want to whine because they're milk has been spilt, he's already gone!
You can take that common sense back where it belongs, off this board today!
The 2007 delistings aren't the problem. The refusal to play the 2008 "listings" is.
Of the 38 we've got listed, if the noises Craig is making about Walker prove prophetic, we'll go into 2009 with a minimum of 9 untested players (Walker, Dangerfield, Kite, Gallman, Armstrong, Cook + minimum 3 draft picks). There will be another 3 who have barely tasted AFL footy in Otten, Jacky and Sellar - they probably can't scrape together an entire AFL match between them. If the cuts go deeper than the bare minimum 3 (and they will), and once again we'll have this shocking disparity between the experience in our best 22 and the rest.
At the start of this year someone (Vader?) calculated that our 22nd most experienced player was Brad Symes. Next year, there's every chance the equivalent player is David Mackay, Nick Gill or Jarrhan Jacky. Yet all we are doing is pumping more "experience" into players who won't be a part of 2008, and leaving the kids in cotton wool.
We've now equalled our worst in-season run of consecutive losses in our history. We need a spark. And we're recycling the type of player who is "playing for his career".
Caramelas13
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- Thread starter
- #38
C13, if you feel the need to jump off the bandwagon feel free to do it. Just hope it doesn't run over you on the way out of the station.
I mean FFS, channeling Alan Scott much?
Sheer stupidity as a post, we wins 6 of 7 showdowns, than loses one (which I'm sure is all his fault
You sir are an idiot who would be better off supporting our cousins from across town if you're going to eat your own that quickly
What are you on about? Yesterdays game wasn't the reason why i said we will never win a premiership with Neil Craig. I'm getting sick and tired of losing games we should be winning.
Did you go to the game yesterday? Do you go to 3 interstate games a year? Does your membership cost over $500 a year? Do you go and buy Crows merchandise every year? Don't come on this forum and start calling me an idiot, asking me to jump off the bandwagon and telling me to support the Power because what i say doesn't agree with you. I'm entitled to my own opinion about the way the club is going at the moment and if you don't like it than shut the F*** up. I accept people having a go at me and wanting reasons for my opinions. But for you to come on and say what you did makes me believe you have very little between you ears.
Caramelas13
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- Thread starter
- #39
I've been told JR had a major saying in those decisions.
Ayres was a puppet anyway. How we didn't win a premiership when we had players like Edwards, Roo, Macca, Goody & Ben Hart in their prime still puzzles me.
Hypothetical C13 – Neil Craig is not the coach, who do you replace him with and can you guarantee he will win a premiership?
You can’t guarantee that - with a bit of tweaking and prodding to the playing list, getting a few players healthy and firing with good form (Hentschel and Gill), add a couple of young kids (Danger, Otten, Walker and McKay) and we will be fighting it out with the top 4 sides again.
You can’t guarantee that - with a bit of tweaking and prodding to the playing list, getting a few players healthy and firing with good form (Hentschel and Gill), add a couple of young kids (Danger, Otten, Walker and McKay) and we will be fighting it out with the top 4 sides again.
Asgardian
Bigfooty Jedi
My point is that it took a major shake up off the field to turn potential into gold.
Yes, in footy anything can, and does happen, but usually there is some kind of catalyst.
jenny61_99
Premium Platinum
Neil Craig is the best man for the job. By a country mile. Name me another available coach out there at the moment who could do better with the list we have? So many people say we blew our chances in 2005/2006 but in all honesty, we should NEVER have been competitive in either of those years. It was through the sheer brilliance of Craig that saw us play well above our capabilities. This has been said MANY times before... Craig is suffering as a result of his own early success. People expect him to perform miracles with a club that has been in the re-modelling phase for the last three years. He certainly is not perfect and makes mistakes... like ALL coaches. The Hawthorns/Geelongs and Western Bulldogs have all had periods of poor performance, allowing them to rebuild their lists. But their lists haven't become successful over night - it has taken years. We are seeing the fruits of this now. To expect Craig to take us to a flag with the list he inherited in less that three years is ridiculous. Let him develop his list. Let him do it HIS way. Of course we'd all love to see the youngsters played NOW, but that's not how he does it. He always brings them in slowly, trying to develop every aspect of their game BEFORE they enter at the top level. There has been some exceptions of that (Tippett and Jacky) and neither of them have been roaring successes. But when you see Douglas/Knights etc slowly introduced at this level and now see them performing at a much higher level, you can see that his methods have many merits.
auscast
Debutant
Caramelas13
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- Thread starter
- #44
Look, i'm not sure who is the next coach to guide us to our 3rd premiership. To be honest we should be fighting for a top 4 spot. The competition is very even apart from Geelong. There is no reason why we can't be up with the best. I just have my doubts with NC. We had the best team in the competition in 05 & 06 and we couldn't reach a GF. Alot of media experts in Melbourne still cannot believe we didn't playoff in a GF in those 2 years. I just feel he is too negative and goes into a defensive shell too often in the big games. I also think his style of play is too methodical and too precise at times. Now with 6 rounds to go, i'd like to see the likes of Walker, Kite, Otten, Dangerfield & Mackay get given some game time. Finals shoudn't be our number 1 goal at the moment. Round 1 2009 should be the aim and we should be managing our playing list towards that.
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jenny61_99
Premium Platinum
I said available coach. He's not.
Caramelas13
Debutant
- Thread starter
- #46
Just a quick question - Has our footy club fully recovered from the belting West Coast handed to us in 2006 at subiaco? Ever since that day, we have been hesitant to attack the big teams in the league. Just a point a mate of mine brought up. Thoughts????
auscast
Debutant
jenny61_99
Premium Platinum
And how many premierships has he won since he took over and started developing the Pies??
It was indeed me.
At the start of this year, we had 11 players who were yet to make their debut. The 22nd most experienced player on our list was Brad Symes, with 20 games to his credit. Given that Hentschel & Biglands were both effectively MIA for the season, the 22nd most experienced player available to play would have been Griffin & Douglas, both with 16 games to their credit. Beyond these players we had only 5 players with a single AFL game to their credit - 3 of whom had played less than 10 games.
Assuming the club truly are "aggressive" with their list management, we will probably see a minimum of 7 departures (8 or 9 are more likely IMHO). Of these, only Jericho is likely to be traded. Of the players seemingly at risk, only Gallman is yet to debut.
Assuming the following (8) players depart:
1 of McLeod, Edwards, Goodwin
Bassett
Biglands
Burton
McGregor
Massie
Jericho
Campbell
Our 22nd player becomes Nick Gill (9 games). We would start the year with 14 players yet to debut and a further 4 with 10 games or less (Moran could reach 10 if they play all 6 remaining H&A games this year).
That situation leaves us almost completely bereft of any "depth" players - players who are capable of coming into the side and filling a role with the minimum of fuss (eg Kris Massie).
Note, if we lose 2 of Macca, Goody & Edwards (in addition to Bassett, Biglands & Burton) we will only be able to have 1 player qualified for inclusion on the veteran list.
Losing the players named above will cost the club 1112 games of experience (plus any games played in R17-22). That assumes McLeod's retirement - best case scenario is 1066 games (Goodwin retirement/delisted).
Under this scenario, our average games played would drop from 67.2 to 37.8, or 79.5 down to 58.1 if you only count players who have debuted. Either way, it's a MASSIVE reduction in our team's experience.
At the start of 2008, our team's average age was 24.37. Assuming the players named are all replaced by players averaging 18 years of age, that figure will drop to 22.0 on 1/1/2009. We will have a VERY young list indeed.
auscast
Debutant
I didn't think that was your question, rather who would be better that Craig.
Do you really think Collingwood has a top 4 list..........not even close.
Why do you think Collingwood always perform in the big games, like showdowns , because Mick gets rid of players who can't handle pressure.
Why have Adelaide struggled in Big games????????
There is your answer!
