It's Time

[PCORF]

We will win a Flag under Craigy; he's the best man for the job, no doubt what so ever.

We won't win another flag for at least 15 more years. I said that after the 2006 prelim final that we won't get another shot for 17 more years because these opportunites are so hard to come by. Hope I'm wrong. I felt so bad I wrote off the team in 2007 and rightly so and the team beat itself mentally every time it loses (a closer game).

 

[Crow-mo]

And still they have no chocolates and won't over the next couple of years. In my opinion he is over-rated. Anyone could have coached West Coast in the early 90's and got them a couple of flags (look at the talent in those sides).

utter bollocks.

Yes, he has a competitive side (hm sounds like someone else we know) but he can't get them to the last step. Difference is he has been around since 1984 (24 years) not 4 years!

that must be a fluke still being in charge after 24 years, what a hack

 

[PCORF]

ummm... Wood is still a backup at best.

Josh Fraser is still a much much better player than wood. though a very marginal ruckman it must be said.

they were within 1 kick of last years premiership. and when you consider how shit they were when he took over. he's rebuilt them twice!!!

Our Bogey Sides since 2002 have all had better success.

Collingwood = 2 top 4, 2 Grand Finals
Brisbane = 4 top 4, 4 Grand Finals, 3 Premierships
Port = 6 top 4, 3 MP, 2 Grand Finals, 1 Premiership
West Coast = 3 top 4, 1 MP, 2 Grand Finals, 1 Premiership
Adelaide = 3 top 4, 1 MP, ZERO Grand Finals

 

[King Elvis]

you seem confused. so there was 100%, no doubt, total certainty that we will a flag under craig - and now you're talking about the void in our playing group? ummm... how does that fit together.

you might also like to consider that Craig prob won't be a long term coach from here on in, as he has always said he never really wanted to be. so your window isn't that large either

They're talking about signing Craig up for another 2-3 years, the void in the playing group isn't his doing, I'm confident that we've already made big steps forward with regard to our list, and will continue to do so.

 

[Big Gazoongas]

Very interesting debate and some good points from both sides of the fence. Some points I would make are:
Don't forget Bomber Thompson built the cats over 7 years before winning the premiership (mind you with some decent father son selections) in his 8th year and there were big questions being asked of his ability in 05 & 06. My point here is that Craig is in his 4th year.

However, I also agree there are some concerns with Craigy, particularly with the game style he is trying to implement. He continues to talk about fast moving play on at all cost footy, I don't think we have the players at the moment to execute this type of game style. I also believe where we have fallen down of late is our movement forward and by that I mean long kicks into the forward line hoping for a contested mark. We can't be relying on a first year player in Tippet to take contested marks every time the ball is kicked long, as we have seen he is often up against 2 defenders and we clearly don't have others (with the exception of Burton but hes gone for the year) capable of taking contested marks on a consistent basis.
Earlier this year we moved the ball quickly and kicked to leading forwards rather than relying on contested marks. At the moment it is kick long and hope, with the opposition clearing the ball relatively easily.

Having said all this maybe Craig does have an eye on the future by going with this type of game style given the type of players they drafted last year with the emphasis on pace...time will tell!!!

I'd also say aggressive management of the list is well and truly on the cards at years end, with a good draft crop this year and slim picking for the next couple due to the 2 new teams there will be some tough decisions made on the list.

 

[crowman_23]

We won't win another flag for at least 15 more years. I said that after the 2006 prelim final that we won't get another shot for 17 more years because these opportunites are so hard to come by. Hope I'm wrong. I felt so bad I wrote off the team in 2007 and rightly so and the team beat itself mentally every time it loses (a closer game).

Ridiculous comment. It may well be very true, but redicting something like that is just stupid.

 

[jenny61_99]

utter bollocks.



that must be a fluke still being in charge after 24 years, what a hack

How long was Sheedy at the helm? Longevity is not necessarily an indication of brilliance.

Malthouse IS a good coach, but I don't think he's the best. I also think he might be past it all now. Leigh Matthews isn't bad either and he has the recent runs on the board.

 

[auscast]

So Malthouse is a better coach than NC, he's also better than every other coach in the game. What's the relevance to us?

Look past your big nose and you will see that I was answering Jenny's question, who would be better than NC!!!!!!!

 

[Crow-mo]

How long was Sheedy at the helm? Longevity is not necessarily an indication of brilliance.

says who?

Malthouse IS a good coach, but I don't think he's the best. I also think he might be past it all now.

no comment needed.

Leigh Matthews isn't bad either and he has the recent runs on the board.

obviously a very good coach too. Malthouse has however gotten much more out of less. 2002 and 2007 being prime examples.

 

[jenny61_99]

says who?



no comment needed.



obviously a very good coach too. Malthouse has however gotten much more out of less. 2002 and 2007 being prime examples.

You don't think Craig got more (well almost) out of less? We may not have made the granny, but we were a top 2 team in both 05 and 06 and there was no way that side should have been there. Malthouse didn't win a granny with his less either so how does that make him better again?

 

[Crow-mo]

You don't think Craig got more (well almost) out of less?

no I don't. I think that is absolute myth. aside from a terrible injury run in 2004 (when craig could do no better) we were a finals side in 2002/03/05/06/07

where does this less come from?

he did great in 05/06 but 04 was an abberration.

We may not have made the granny, but we were a top 2 team in both 05 and 06 and there was no way that side should have been there.

based on what? 2004?

Malthouse didn't win a granny with his less either so how does that make him better again?

well we've never been nearly as close to a flag as Micky was in 2002/07.
barely a kick in each case.

 

[jenny61_99]

no I don't. I think that is absolute myth. aside from a terrible injury run in 2004 (when craig could do no better) we were a finals side in 2002/03/05/06/07

where does this less come from?

he did great in 05/06 but 04 was an abberration.



based on what? 2004?



well we've never been nearly as close to a flag as Micky was in 2002/07.
barely a kick in each case.

Being close to a flag and winning one are two very different things. Port made the granny last year.....

Craig over achieved in his first two years..... certainly in 05 where Crows were widely predicted to achieve bottom spot (not dissimilar to this year actually). 06 of course saw expectations higher based on 05 results. Fact is, personnel hadn't changed a great deal.... those players - who in 05 were expected to come bottom - were now a "chance" it seems, of winning a flag. Of course injuries plagued us and ensured our expectations came crashing down. We were never going to win a flag with that team.... never. Injuries just made sure of it.

Opinions, Crow mo, are just that.

 

[Crow-mo]

Being close to a flag and winning one are two very different things. Port made the granny last year.....

and they weren't close. they were favoured by a kind draw.

Craig over achieved in his first two years..... certainly in 05 where Crows were widely predicted to achieve bottom spot (not dissimilar to this year actually). 06 of course saw expectations higher based on 05 results. Fact is, personnel hadn't changed a great deal.... those players - who in 05 were expected to come bottom - were now a "chance" it seems, of winning a flag. Of course injuries plagued us and ensured our expectations came crashing down. We were never going to win a flag with that team.... never. Injuries just made sure of it.

you didn't address the issue. at all. our list did not emerge from the flames, reborn on 01/01/2005.

repeating the myth doesn't bust it.

Opinions, Crow mo, are just that.

including ones that ignore facts too.

 

[crow87]

What a cheap-shot post from a fair-weather supporter. Craig is the best man for the job, especially given where our list is at currently and what needs to be done with it over the next few years.
Where was this post when we were winning at the start of the year Caramelas?

 

[jenny61_99]

and they weren't close. they were favoured by a kind draw.



you didn't address the issue. at all. our list did not emerge from the flames, reborn on 01/01/2005.

repeating the myth doesn't bust it.



including ones that ignore facts too.

I'm not repeating a myth Crow-mo.... every man and his dog had Adelaide tipped to finish bottom in 2005. That's a fact. In 2004 we won just 8 games. We changed coaches mid-season and we turned over personnel at year end (including Carey, Smart, Burns, Stenglein, Gallagher). We recruited the likes of Meesen, Watts, VB, Maric, Knights, and Gibson and Griff was a rookie. Craig was an "unknown" quantity and we'd lost a lot of experience. The new recruits made no impact at all in 2005. Craig took the squad to our best ever home and away record - EVER. He achieved far more than he should have with that squad.

 

[Crow-mo]

I'm not repeating a myth Crow-mo.... every man and his dog had Adelaide tipped to finish bottom in 2005. That's a fact. In 2004 we won just 8 games.

so what?

you're just demonstrating you don't understand the points being made.

Yes, people expected a poor result - but that doesn't mean they were right to do so!!!! People expected Geelong to suck in 2007, ignoring the that 2006 was an injury ravaged year and they were very strong and made it deep into the finals in 2005/06.

that the media is lazy and doesn't pay attention is no argument at all.

and that is what your point comes down to, that you've accepted lazy media scuttle as fact.

the same club competed deep into the finals in 2002/03. that is a fact. the club had a poor year, deeply disturbed by injury in 2004. that is a fact. the club with a dream injury run in 2005 (fact) got back to the previous levels of 2002/03 and improved even further upon that.

but stop ignoring everything that went on before. if you are not prepared to look at the continuous line of club performance, then you shouldn't really be commenting. because that is just as selective and lazy as the media opinions you are hanging you hat on.

for your opinion to be accurate it requires that 2004 be the true reflection of our standing. is that what you are saying?

ps. there is no second option. this is a plain exercise of logic. if you keep referring back to expectations from 2004 then you are saying (no ifs not buts) that is/was the true state of play. and what's more this is a very easy position to refute.

If you admit that 2004 was not the true reflection, then your point is invalid.

We changed coaches mid-season and we turned over personnel at year end (including Carey, Smart, Burns, Stenglein, Gallagher). We recruited the likes of Meesen, Watts, VB, Maric, Knights, and Gibson and Griff was a rookie. Craig was an "unknown" quantity and we'd lost a lot of experience. The new recruits made no impact at all in 2005. Craig took the squad to our best ever home and away record - EVER. He achieved far more than he should have with that squad.

yes, and? those ins and outs at that stage of their careers are a big bag of meh.

why do you keep insisting that the adelaide football club did not exist before 2005? the core of that squad was not that different from the 2002 preliminary finalists and 2003 - jason cloke/tyson edwards - finals team.

Craigy has done a good job, but your blind insistence on making things appear more than they are is somewhat conspicuous.

 

[Crow-mo]

ah look Jen, it doesn't matter.

enjoy your night.

 

[Caramelas13]

What a cheap-shot post from a fair-weather supporter. Craig is the best man for the job, especially given where our list is at currently and what needs to be done with it over the next few years.
Where was this post when we were winning at the start of the year Caramelas?

At the begining of the year when we were winning, NC was sticking to his word by playing attacking footy. Now, we didn't really beat any big name teams when we were 8-3. I think we can all agree there. There were some gutsy wins and there were some big wins. All of a sudden we face a block of 6 games where the whole of Australia is carefully monitoring us because they thought our 8-3 record wasn't right. Why in the past 5 weeks have we gone back into our shell again? The only way to play a certain style is to implement it on the field. Why has NC gone away from this? That last qtr against Hawthorn, we tried to save the game instead of winning it. Against Brisbane we tried to maintain a weakened lions team instead of putting them to the sword. No excuse against Geelong. They are far superior than any other team. Against Collinwood, we had them on toast. 5 goals up and we stopped. Ok, we didn't have the luck that game but we were in a winning position and in the end it was a 10 goal turn around. Then we face Port. Just about our Elimination final. We could have made them look ordinary but they made us look like we're the 13th team.

I haven't been entirely happy this year, even when we were 8-3. I look at the way we play and the way we finish teams off. I remember Robert Walls saying after round 10 (7-3) "despite the Crows being 7-3, they have only won 21 out of 40 qtrs this year". That stat proves we only play in dribs and drabs. We need to be more consistent and start playing 4 qtr games. There has only been 1 game where we have played 4 qtrs. Round 2 v West Coast.

It may be a harsh topic but there are signs developing that i'm not all that excited about. We keep hearing that you'll see a different Crows team this week or you will see a faster looking outfit or a more attacking structure etc....but it never does quite eventuate. Look i hope he proves me wrong. I love the club but it doesn't mean i have to agree with everything that goes on. I wanna see another premiership like you do and in quick time. Reality is we missed our chance and we may have to wait a while as teams like Hawthorn, Bulldogs, Essendon, Carlton, Brisbane, Collingwood & Richmond are probably ahead of us in terms of their development of their respective lists.

 

[jenny61_99]

Craigy has done a good job, but your blind insistence on making things appear more than they are is somewhat conspicuous.

My blind insistence is somewhat conspicuous? What the hell does that mean? It's just an opinion... my opinion that you don't happen to agree with.

That's cool. And I do appreciate your point of view re the existence of the squad prior to 05, however we all know Ayres' poor recruiting history and that he'd left the squad in a not very good place. What Craig did - in my opinion - was nothing less than miraculous. I am not a blind follower CM (contrary to popular opinion), but I do appreciate the level of professionalism that Craig has brought to the club. I also appreciate his player management style in that he is able to get the best out of most of his squad. There will always be issues, but I reckon on the whole, he does exceptionally well. There are still some concerns when it comes to match-day decisions, but his player development and preparation can't be faulted in my eyes. I actually like how he develops the young ones slowly and I know I am pretty much on my own there . I'd much rather have him than Mickey M as our coach, not only because I feel he has achieved as much as anyone could with the squad he inherited, but also because I honestly believe Malthouse has passed his use-by-date. I could be wrong, and happy to say so if that is proven to be incorrect.