Scape Goat I've lost my faith in Ken Hinkley Part 3

[TeeKray]

And a player would hold the ball aloft as a signal, just in case the opposition were in any doubt about what we were doing.

Troy Chaplin, master ball holder upperer.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

Troy Chaplin, master ball holder upperer.

Dwaynes only good bit was in response to the ball being held aloft.

“It’s the signal to the crowd to start booing”

 

[Rexie J]

Hinkley certainly sees things that only an insider can see but I have little faith in his ability to understand or interpret what he sees given the things we supporters can see from the outside that he appears blind to.

Therein lies the problem Steve D.

Like so many long time members/supporters and us geriatric mob, have little to no understanding what the Port Adelaide Football Club stands for these days.

Yes, society has changed and footy is light years more competitive but why oh why are Port so mediocre (rhetorical?)

Yourself and Power Girl have raised an extremely important issue which has been been raised in various guises on BF but unfortunately none of us are any wiser.

 

[edgie]

I’m prepared to die on this particular hill.

Choco’s insistence upon tinkering, dicking around and resting stars for long periods which often converted 70-120pt shellackings into ho-hum 4-7 goal victories or worse really did set the table for his suite of finals failures and subsequent psychological doldrums that still infect the club.

Followed by Ken 'unless we are five goals down don't attack too much, she'll come good'.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Magus]

Followed by Ken 'unless we are five goals down don't attack too much, she'll come good'.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know what happened in 2017 and why we decided to change it up again. Sure, we beat up on lesser teams but we were kicking big scores. It's been 18 months since we've done that.

 

[pastmyprimus]

A person who’s not good at his job still won’t be good at his job even if he access to more information

 

[Janus]

1. Billy has spent plenty of time up forward. He has not been a full time ruck in the SANFL. In round 23 last year he wa beaten in the ruck, was swung forward and had immediate impact. A full preseason and 9 minor round games later...

2. Dougal Howard was recruited as a forward, spent time in the ruck and is now a defender. Has played AFL games in every position.

3. Todd Marshall is a rake.

Honestly, stop trying to defend nonsense.

1. Yes, he was being developed as a ruck/forward, until they realised last year that he’s more a forward than a ruck. A full preseason, 2 wins (when Marshall was playing and Westhoff kicked 5 goals in a game), 2 suspended games and 2 penance games for being a dickhead and getting himself suspended in the reserves later...he comes in against Gold Coast.

He missed one game where he could have and should have played.

2. “Spending time in the ruck” huh? He gave a chop out. Dixon and Westhoff have spent more time as the primary ruck than Howard.

3. So was Westhoff. Didn’t seem to bother him.

 

[Steve Dore]

A person who’s not good at his job still won’t be good at his job even if he access to more information

In my experience giving someone who doesn't understand the information in front of them more information they don't understand just makes matters worse.

 

[Power Girl]

In my experience giving someone who doesn't understand the information in front of them more information they don't understand just makes matters worse.

I hope you’re not talking about Ken. He sees things we outsiders can’t see. He is the oracle.

 

[Magus]

1. Yes, he was being developed as a ruck/forward, until they realised last year that he’s more a forward than a ruck. A full preseason, 2 wins (when Marshall was playing and Westhoff kicked 5 goals in a game), 2 suspended games and 2 penance games for being a dickhead and getting himself suspended in the reserves later...he comes in against Gold Coast.

He missed one game where he could have and should have played.

Wowee. 5 years in the system and they finally figured out what he's good at. What visionaries we have at this club. You're telling me that coaches who witnessed a young ruckman spending time forward realised that he could actually play forward full time?

2 penance games is bullshit. That's you creating a narrative to back up your opinion again

2. “Spending time in the ruck” huh? He gave a chop out. Dixon and Westhoff have spent more time as the primary ruck than Howard.

Uh, yeah. A chop out constitutes as spending time in the ruck. What would you call it?

3. So was Westhoff. Didn’t seem to bother him.

Westhoff isn't Marshall. This is the Hinkley thread remember? What does 2007 Westhoff have to to with anything? Was there an older, stronger player in good form in the SANFL that Choco was ignoring in favour of Westhoff? If not it's irrelevant.

Frampton is clearly more physically developed than Marshall. Any talk that he wasnt ready because he might get bullied around is nonsense when you look at Marshall being thrown to the wolves at the earliest opportunity and Dougal was given the chance to play three different positions and come back from an ACL while Billy was made to earn it ten times over.

 

[PowerLil]

1. Yes, he was being developed as a ruck/forward, until they realised last year that he’s more a forward than a ruck. A full preseason, 2 wins (when Marshall was playing and Westhoff kicked 5 goals in a game), 2 suspended games and 2 penance games for being a dickhead and getting himself suspended in the reserves later...he comes in against Gold Coast.

He missed one game where he could have and should have played.

2. “Spending time in the ruck” huh? He gave a chop out. Dixon and Westhoff have spent more time as the primary ruck than Howard.

3. So was Westhoff. Didn’t seem to bother him.

This is Billy's 5th year on our list. There have been calls for his selection as a ruckman or forward for years. Last year his non selection when we were desperate was ridiculous and Ken's comments about him not being ready just plain embarrassing. I don't know what you are on about.

 

[VineValerian]

KH: "We've just got to keep things under a level playing field"

What does that even mean?

The hills and valleys, the peaks and troughs, the incessant undulations of the game of Aussie Rules - steamrolled into one homogenous and amorphous blancmange of mediocrity, then smothered with a compost of horse manure and spin doctoring.

 

[Janus]

This is Billy's 5th year on our list. There have been calls for his selection as a ruckman or forward for years. Last year his non selection when we were desperate was ridiculous and Ken's comments about him not being ready just plain embarrassing. I don't know what you are on about.

People were calling for him to be selected as a ruck. He proved he was nothing more than a chop out ruck - someone to give a primary ruck a rest, and worse at it than Westhoff. And that was last year with a stronger body, not in 2016.

No one called for him to be selected as a key forward.

You know who they did call for as a key forward? Mitch Harvey.

 

[Jason K]

1. Yes, he was being developed as a ruck/forward, until they realised last year that he’s more a forward than a ruck. A full preseason, 2 wins (when Marshall was playing and Westhoff kicked 5 goals in a game), 2 suspended games and 2 penance games for being a dickhead and getting himself suspended in the reserves later...he comes in against Gold Coast.
.

He was being developed as a ruck/forward for 4 years despite nearly every poster on bigfooty that had seen him play knowing years ago that he is a natural fwd.

4 years of wasted time.

Just like the 3 years of Travis Boak out of the midfield.

Or Westhoff as a key forward.

Howard is another, he is a natural forward. He is so dangerous every time he plays forward. My nephew agreed with me on this point on the weekend but said he's looking so good down back too. I said to him that if we recruited Lance Franklin and he played a good game down back to cover someone, would you play him there permanently? I guess Ken probably would.

 

[Janus]

He was being developed as a ruck/forward for 4 years despite nearly every poster on bigfooty that had seen him play knowing years ago that he is a natural fwd.

4 years of wasted time.

Just like the 3 years of Travis Boak out of the midfield.

Or Westhoff as a key forward.

Howard is another, he is a natural forward. He is so dangerous every time he plays forward. My nephew agreed with me on this point on the weekend but said he's looking so good down back too. I said to him that if we recruited Lance Franklin and he played a good game down back to cover someone, would you play him there permanently? I guess Ken probably would.

4 years of wasted time?

The only reason he looks good now is because we spent the time to develop him properly. Why does Billy say he doesn’t want to leave the club if he was frustrated with his development? He knew exactly where he stood this year and why we needed exposed form before we could select him. He missed one game he probably should have played, and that was a hotly contested Showdown.

He’s 22 years old. Learning what is required of an AFL forward takes time for everyone. Doubly so for key forwards, who have the hardest job that gets the least rewards in the modern game.

 

[RossFC]

As I wrote in the Frampton thread, we could have played him in several other games.

It's not 4 wasted years, but it's 4-8 wasted opportunities where he could have been given a go.

 

[Jason K]

4 years of wasted time?

The only reason he looks good now is because we spent the time to develop him properly. Why does Billy say he doesn’t want to leave the club if he was frustrated with his development? He knew exactly where he stood this year and why we needed exposed form before we could select him. He missed one game he probably should have played, and that was a hotly contested Showdown.

He’s 22 years old. Learning what is required of an AFL forward takes time for everyone. Doubly so for key forwards, who have the hardest job that gets the least rewards in the modern game.

4 years of wasted time developing his ruck craft instead of fwd craft

 

[Magus]

He’s 22 years old. Learning what is required of an AFL forward takes time for everyone. Doubly so for key forwards, who have the hardest job that gets the least rewards in the modern game.

Marshall was given games in his first year when he was even more raw and undersized than he is now. Ken had enough faith in him to select him for an elimination final.

There's been numerous games over the last few years where the team was screaming for a player of Frampton's type and he was overlooked every time. How good it would have been to get that experience into him. So far he's played an absolute dead rubber in round 23 and last week's game. 4 years of development and that's all we have to go by.

Sometimes all a guy needs is someone to believe in them.

 

[AwwThatsApples]

Frampton is clearly more physically developed than Marshall. Any talk that he wasnt ready because he might get bullied around is nonsense when you look at Marshall being thrown to the wolves at the earliest opportunity and Dougal was given the chance to play three different positions and come back from an ACL while Billy was made to earn it ten times over.

When everyone bragged about the winning record we had under Marshall? And everyone cried when he was dropped in rounds 3 and 4, despite making way for players like Dougal and Gray, who everyone spat the dummy about at first until they became some of our BOG's?

We were clearly very nervous about dropping Marshall, but Frampton also needed to show consistency in his SANFL form, which he did once he managed 9 goals in just two weeks. I agree it was stupid to not pick him up in round 8, but it's not like he would've helped much when Boak and Rockliff failed to lead the midfield and dispose efficiently into the forward line, which we NEEDED in the showdown after all of our injuries. And in rounds 1 to 7 there were other concerns on the plate after the absence of Jonas KILLED us, with an out of form Motlop and the lack of step up from some of our potentially best players including Robbie and Westhoff

 

[Magus]

When everyone bragged about the winning record we had under Marshall? And everyone cried when he was dropped in rounds 3 and 4, despite making way for players like Dougal and Gray, who everyone spat the dummy about at first until they became some of our BOG's?

We were clearly very nervous about dropping Marshall, but Frampton also needed to show consistency in his SANFL form, which he did once he managed 9 goals in just two weeks. I agree it was stupid to not pick him up in round 8, but it's not like he would've helped much when Boak and Rockliff failed to lead the midfield and dispose efficiently into the forward line, which we NEEDED in the showdown after all of our injuries. And in rounds 1 to 7 there were other concerns on the plate after the absence of Jonas KILLED us, with an out of form Motlop and the lack of step up from some of our potentially best players including Robbie and Westhoff

I'm not against playing Marshall, I'm pointing out the absolute inconsistencies in our selections.

 

[1954]

The Billy situation that still irks me was when he was taken out of the 2017 sanfl finals series for an operation on his shoulder, apparently to have him ready to go for the AFL team the next season, and as we know he wasn't selected for the Power until he was given one token game in the last round of 2018.

He had played virtually all of 2017 with the problem and was very effective in most games, and it is believed he wanted to play in the gf which the Maggies lost by less than a goal, so the decision to pull him out of a finals series where he could have very well made the difference was just another head shaking moment for me, and it may have even been based on nothing more than having a set date for all players to be sent for preseason surgery.

The campaigners running the club keep telling us that success for the Maggies is important, but I believe that is just more of their absolute f****** bullsh*t!

 

[Magus]

The Billy situation that still irks me was when he was taken out of the 2017 sanfl finals series for an operation on his shoulder, apparently to have him ready to go for the AFL team the next season, and as we know he wasn't selected for the Power until he was given one token game in the last round of 2018.

He had played virtually all of 2017 with the problem and was very effective in most games, and it is believed he wanted to play in the gf which the Maggies lost by less than a goal, so the decision to pull him out of a finals series where he could have very well made the difference was just another head shaking moment for me, and it may have even been based on nothing more than having a set date for all players to be sent for preseason surgery.

The campaigners running the club keep telling us that success for the Maggies is important, but I believe that is just more of their absolute f****** bullsh*t!

Fair chance they told Brett Eddy he was no longer required before the GF too and he promptly played one of his worst sanfl games ever.

 

[1954]

Fair chance they told Brett Eddy he was no longer required before the GF too and he promptly played one of his worst sanfl games ever.

I heard that too, and if correct it would have been man management at its absolute worst!

 

[AwwThatsApples]

The Billy situation that still irks me was when he was taken out of the 2017 sanfl finals series for an operation on his shoulder, apparently to have him ready to go for the AFL team the next season, and as we know he wasn't selected for the Power until he was given one token game in the last round of 2018.

He had played virtually all of 2017 with the problem and was very effective in most games, and it is believed he wanted to play in the gf which the Maggies lost by less than a goal, so the decision to pull him out of a finals series where he could have very well made the difference was just another head shaking moment for me, and it may have even been based on nothing more than having a set date for all players to be sent for preseason surgery.

The campaigners running the club keep telling us that success for the Maggies is important, but I believe that is just more of their absolute f****** bullsh*t!

Chances are if you do well enough in the AFL then you'll almost automatically do well in the SANFL, which isn't always the case, but whilst the outcome of the SANFL season seems to be irrelevant (At least to the club), the development of young players is very important, and honestly had we given Billy a full season as a FF then I could only imagine how capable he would be by now, but sometimes it can take time to find the strengths and weaknesses of players, and hopefully Billy plants yet more young seeds in the soil to prepare a young team for the future.

 

[Us against the rest]

I hope you’re not talking about Ken. He sees things we outsiders can’t see. He is the oracle.