Scape Goat I've lost my faith in Ken Hinkley Part 3

[AwwThatsApples]

Depends. Were games lost where a superior structure would have been enough to get us over the line?

It's more so when structure meets injuries, then the team goes into panic.

 

[AwwThatsApples]

View attachment 687396

Surely Hinkley is closer to being sacked than poached? Has underachieved for years. But one thing supporters seem to dismiss is Hinkley threatened the club he leave to the Gold Coast if we didn't extend and we **** ourselves and offered more money money.

We aren’t going anywhere under Hinkley/Voss sooner the club cuts its losses and get supporters back feeling upbeat the better

Ken literally said today that he'd rather stay at Port over going to Carlton or another club.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Ken literally said today that he'd rather stay at Port over going to Carlton or another club.

How many contracted coaches say otherwise ? In Ross Lyons final year did he come out and publicly say he was leaving half way through the year ? Because i don't remember that happening.

Now i'm not saying that he is going, but regardless there is only one way you can answer that question.

 

[RossFC]

Yeah he's playing a straight bat. If he agreed terms with Carlton, then he'd ask to leave. It's not at that stage.

 

[Ilias M]

Ken literally said today that he'd rather stay at Port over going to Carlton or another club.

Of course he would say that he said the same thing when GC came calling and we paid for it

 

[Us against the rest]

Yeah he's playing a straight bat. If he agreed terms with Carlton, then he'd ask to leave. It's not at that stage.

Yeah he's playing a straight bat. If he agreed terms with Carlton, then he'd ask to leave. It's not at that stage.

May be KT can be like Shane Warne and deliver a beauty right on to his stumps.

 

[AwwThatsApples]

Of course he would say that he said the same thing when GC came calling and we paid for it

I really don't see why we would bother giving him an extension unless he really wanted to stay at Port or at least if there was some kind of plan that Koch wanted him to be there for. My only other guess is that we didn't have any other options at the time, or at least options that we could trust

 

[Magus]

I really don't see why we would bother giving him an extension unless he really wanted to stay at Port or at least if there was some kind of plan that Koch wanted him to be there for. My only other guess is that we didn't have any other options at the time, or at least options that we could trust

We didn't need to give him an extension at all. He still had a year to run on his contract.

Koch wanted to make him a 10 year coach and be around for the 150th. He also didn't want to lose him to the GC and be shown up again by Cochrane.

 

[AwwThatsApples]

We didn't need to give him an extension at all. He still had a year to run on his contract.

Koch wanted to make him a 10 year coach and be around for the 150th. He also didn't want to lose him to the GC and be shown up again by Cochrane.

I remember when we wanted Mark Williams to be a ten year coach, then we ended up losing everything and handing the empty plate to Primus.
At least we got a premiership out of the deal, which was obviously what mattered most, but instead of rebuilding post premiership we tried to use up everything we had and lost all of it as a result, bar a few players.

Did Koch never consider this when plotting his plan?

 

[Magus]

I remember when we wanted Mark Williams to be a ten year coach, then we ended up losing everything and handing the empty plate to Primus.
At least we got a premiership out of the deal, which was obviously what mattered most, but instead of rebuilding post premiership we tried to use up everything we had and lost all of it as a result, bar a few players.

Did Koch never consider this when plotting his plan?

I don't know. It's hard to believe anyone thought it was good idea.

 

[AwwThatsApples]

I don't know. It's hard to believe anyone thought it was good idea.

It can be a great idea when you actually know what you're doing, and probably not right after a previous attempt at a ten-year coach had failed

 

[Magus]

It can be a great idea when you actually know what you're doing, and probably not right after a previous attempt at a ten-year coach had failed

Or an acceptable idea if you have money to throw around.

 

[PA88]

Those that say that poor basic skills and poor execution is not directly an influence of the senior coach and a responsibility of the senior coach instantly makes any further debate of theirs null and void.

 

[Steve Dore]

Whilst the coach works with whatever program the fitness coaches set in place it does NOT give the coach direct control over the program. ....

WTF.gif

So the fitness coaches tell the head coach what the deliverables of the fitness program are and the head coach comes up with a game plan to suit?

 

[AwwThatsApples]

WTF.gif

So the fitness coaches tell the head coach what the deliverables of the fitness program are and the head coach comes up with a game plan to suit?

It's not really direct cooperation, but if the skills are s**t the coaches have to find a gameplan that streamlines the penalties for skill errors. Why else do you think we started playing defensively in 2018?

 

[Magus]

It's not really direct cooperation, but if the skills are **** the coaches have to find a gameplan that streamlines the penalties for skill errors. Why else do you think we started playing defensively in 2018?

But if they've been that way for 5+ years across vastly different lists, maybe it's reasonable to make skills more of a focus at training?

It's unacceptable for us to be a poorly skilled team from 2013 til now and that be made common knowledge by our coach publically as if it's just something that has to be put up with.

 

[Steve Dore]

Why else do you think we started playing defensively in 2018?

That has nothing to do with your original assertion about the head coach's influence on the fitness program and my subsequent question.

You are saying that Hinkley may want a game plan based on speed and outside run but has no control over the fitness program that is just as likely to deliver a squad of bulked up players who couldn't run out of sight on a dark night.

Besides, fitness program is not skills training so stop moving the goal posts.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Depends. Were games lost where a superior structure would have been enough to get us over the line?

I'm not one of those "if we just played Billy Frampton we would've easily won this game that we lost by 10 goals without him" types, but the Richmond game in Round 4 I genuinely believe we would've won with a KPF up forward in the last quarter to stop the Dylan Grimes/Sydney Stack intercept-mark-a-thon. And it wouldn't even have needed to be done at the selection table. Just swinging Doogs up forward for Q4 to get to a few contests and crash a few packs could've easily been the difference.

 

[AwwThatsApples]

That has nothing to do with your original assertion about the head coach's influence on the fitness program and my subsequent question.

You are saying that Hinkley may want a game plan based on speed and outside run but has no control over the fitness program that is just as likely to deliver a squad of bulked up players who couldn't run out of sight on a dark night.

Besides, fitness program is not skills training so stop moving the goal posts.

It's about the coaches making the best out of what's been put on the table, and that's what they've had to do with our poor skills.
And yes I was getting the fitness coach and development coach mixed up

 

[LP7_]

I'm not one of those "if we just played Billy Frampton we would've easily won this game that we lost by 10 goals without him" types, but the Richmond game in Round 4 I genuinely believe we would've won with a KPF up forward in the last quarter to stop the Dylan Grimes/Sydney Stack intercept-mark-a-thon. And it wouldn't even have needed to be done at the selection table. Just swinging Doogs up forward to get to a few contests and crash a few packs could've easily been the difference.

I’d almost argue Brisbane as well. Made Josh Walker look like a 7 time AA, and it was the first time Marshall missed for Sam Gray.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

Do you remember the play where Shane Savage (who was ill and had to have a fitness test before the game) had Travis Boak cornered on the boundary line on our half forward flank, and Travis (who is hardly the most fleet-footed of footballers) just brushed him aside and ran straight past him? That was a 'pressure act'.

Hawthorn had 74 tackles against us two weeks ago. St Kilda had 46. That's nearly a 40% drop off in one week.

Firstly are you actually sure that’s counted as a pressure act? I thought it was only counted if it affects disposal.

Also even if it is, it doesn’t make the stat useless. There are plenty of times that a player would have no chance of tackling but can at least put pressure on the ball carrier to get rid of the ball faster than they’d like to, meaning a turnover is way more likely.

It’s a really important part of the modern game.

Think of when players do those repeated handball chains over the top, as player A handballs to player B as player B’s opponent comes up to player A. If players are pressuring properly and moving fast enough they can create a turnover, by jumping up and knocking the handball out of the air, by attempting to tackle, or even just by forcing an “unforced error” of sorts.

I also don’t believe a tackle counts if the player being tackled handballs or gets a shitty kick away?

But either way reducing the time a player has to dispose of the ball means they are generally forced to pick a worse option, and will even make players do stupid s**t while under no pressure.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

I'm not one of those "if we just played Billy Frampton we would've easily won this game that we lost by 10 goals without him" types, but the Richmond game in Round 4 I genuinely believe we would've won with a KPF up forward in the last quarter to stop the Dylan Grimes/Sydney Stack intercept-mark-a-thon. And it wouldn't even have needed to be done at the selection table. Just swinging Doogs up forward for Q4 to get to a few contests and crash a few packs could've easily been the difference.

Oh man dougal up forward could have saved that game. Never thought of that

Kicking straight would have helped a hell of a lot though, as would not bombing it forward for no reason. I mean you are allowed to just chip the ball around forever if the opposition have flooded the f50.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Oh man dougal up forward could have saved that game. Never thought of that

Have you ever considered being paid 800k a year to be the senior coach of an AFL club?

 

[Us against the rest]

It's not really direct cooperation, but if the skills are **** the coaches have to find a gameplan that streamlines the penalties for skill errors. Why else do you think we started playing defensively in 2018?

No, you fix the **** skills or sack the coach.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

Have you ever considered being paid 800k a year to be the senior coach of an AFL club?

I don’t have my CERT 3 so...