Scape Goat I've lost my faith in Ken Hinkley Part 3

[El_Scorcho]

Example 1:

Broadbent kicks to Frampton who is one on one with Frawley. What does Frampton do in this situation? Instead of leading to the ball like any key forward would, he instead tries to engage with Frawley in a wresting contest, holds his arm and allows Frawley to gain separation and take an easy intercept mark. This is not fixed with AFL experience. Get to the fall of the ball.

That's not what happened at all. Frampton is anticipating the kick up the line and positioning for it. Broadbent kicks to the inside of the contest, behind Frampton and to Frawley's advantage, and Frampton only tries to engage with Frawley once it's clear that the ball has been kicked to Frawley's advantage.

Example 2:

Here we have Sam Gray kicking towards the hot spot where Frampton is again in a one on one contest. Frampton has nice separation here - but instead of making it hard for his opponent to get a feel for where he is, he moves towards him and allows the defender to engage and get an easy spoil on the ball. Stationary and stagnant. Should have waited and come in from the side to take the easy mark in front.

Frampton has nice separation because you can see him moving away from the hotspot to the left of screen immediately prior to the ball spilling to Gray. Gray then snaps a ball which is curving away from Frampton and to the Hawthorn player's side of the contest, which meant Frampton had to go through the defender to get to the fall of the ball. The defender wasn't going to simply stand there and let Frampton go past him to take an uncontested mark.

Example 3:

Everyone's favourite half-back, Matthew Broadbent, delivers a nice pass to Frampton on the lead. If a key forward gets two hands to the ball in this situation, it should be a mark. But Billy spills it. AFL experience isn't going to help with this.

He got to the fall of the ball here and would have marked it on the 2nd grab if Robbie didn't take it out of his hands. Not really sure he can be criticised for a skill error in not taking it one grab, but he'd protected the fall of the ball and controlled it, exactly what you've been criticising him for failing to do.

Example 4:

Because Frampton is more worried about wrestling with his opponent instead of actually making it difficult for him to engage by moving around to generate separation, he's not on the move when Gray delivers a ball into the forward 50, the ball hits the ground around 2 feet in front of him and Frampton ends up getting done holding the ball. Jonathon Brown blames the kick, but the reality is that if Frampton wasn't busy trying to outmuscle his opponent he would have got to that kick no problem.

Again, this isn't what happened at all. Frampton is held as he begins his lead which is both good defending and bad umpiring, but the uncontested kick still wasn't to his advantage. He delays his lead as the ball is clearly going to get to him on the half volley and is wrapped up as he takes possession by a far more experienced player. If you don't think more experience against AFL level defenders matters here, I don't know what to tell you. SANFL defenders wouldn't be good enough to get away with the hold to begin with.

Example 5:

Once again, Frampton is caught wrestling with his opponent, because his stagnant approach to the ball means it makes him very easy to engage by a defender. If he had been on the move, Rozee would have hit him with a lace out pass, but that would be all too hard, so Connor is forced to kick it long and deep and Billy gives away a dumb free kick. Again. Could have used the miles of free space in front of goal on the lead.

Again, this is just not what happened. Frampton did have separation and was leading across the face of the goal to open space. He doubles back because Rozee's kick goes behind him instead of in front of him, and then should have received a free kick for front on contact before being judged to have given one away. If Rozee kicks to Frampton's advantage, he takes an uncontested mark 15m out. Once Rozee has put the kick in the wrong spot, all he can do is try to protect the space and take the front on contact.

Bullshit free kick against regardless.

Example 6:

Frampton leads to the ball, but has zero separation on his opponent who is right on his hammer, hence why he spills the mark. Generating separation is about making dummy leads and being constantly moving in the forward line to catch your opponent flatfooted. That's why key forward is the hardest position on the ground.

He leads to the ball, but it's kicked to his right, which means he breaks stride and the defender makes contact. Should he have marked it anyway? Probably. Would an SANFL defender have been right on his hammer and in a position to spoil? No chance. This is another example of Frampton doing the right thing but being caught a bit by high quality defenders. He'll learn from contests like that. Regardless, he presented well to the ball and brought it to ground.

Example 7:

Here we see that the defender has over committed and all Frampton has to do is set himself with an arm bar to protect the space and he'll take an easy mark. Did he do so? Nope. No amount of AFL experience is going to help with this.

He loses his footing briefly under a high ball, which is the only thing that stops him from taking the mark. But the idea that positioning and bodywork experience at AFL level wouldn't have helped with this contest is silly.

Here's a great example of what I'm talking about. Example 8:

See Butters with his hand up in the air? See Frampton running a good 20 meters ahead of Butters? If Frampton had been closer, he could have brought the ball to ground for Butters. Instead, it's Butters who brings the ball to ground for Frampton...who ends up getting done holding the ball. Absolutely ridiculous.

The kick wasn't even to Frampton, and if it was it wasn't long enough, but it's another example of him generating the sort of separation you're talking about, he'd gotten miles ahead of his defender and took possession in the pack with his attach on the ball, leading to a HTB, which is a speed of the game and experience issue.

Ask yourself: if Dougal Howard or Charlie Dixon were in the positions that Frampton found himself in the first quarter, would we have gone scoreless? The answer is **** no.

Again, you're comparing a 3 gamer to guys with 39 and 126 games respectively. He wasn't perfect in these contests but watching the footage instead of looking at stills shows that he was generally presenting reasonably well and didn't get great delivery. Should he have held a mark or two in the forward line? Absolutely, but was his performance droppable when compared with say, Bonner's first several weeks? Howard's nightmare game? Are we a better football team now for having dropped him? Will we be a better football team moving forward for leaving him on 3 games instead of getting more experience into him?

(We would have scored in that quarter with a 2016 John Butcher in Frampton's position as well, but we decided to cut him and not have anyone else on the list who can do a job for us with Dixon out.)

If you don't think that experience made a difference here you are absolutely kidding yourself. The only way Frampton gets that experience is to be backed in at AFL level. Because of our poor key forward development, Frampton was generally matched up on a 200 gamer and previous All Australian in Frawley. If you don't think that experience makes a difference at the contest, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[El_Scorcho]

You're also talking about a player who is a pretty reliable contested marker at this level playing in garbage conditions against good defenders.

If he was afforded the opportunity to play in perfect conditions against poor defenders recovering from food poisoning in a squash match, especially if Howard was up there with him to stretch the defence, he'd have had a much better game.

Dropping him achieved nothing. It made us a worse football team going forward.

 

[Steve Dore]

Hinkley shouldn't be sacked because Frampton had a bad game against Hawthorn. I'm convinced.

 

[Janus]

That's not what happened at all. Frampton is anticipating the kick up the line and positioning for it. Broadbent kicks to the inside of the contest, behind Frampton and to Frawley's advantage, and Frampton only tries to engage with Frawley once it's clear that the ball has been kicked to Frawley's advantage.

They are both standing next to each other. Frampton has enough time to grab onto Frawley's arm, he's got enough time to get to the fall of the ball. If Billy had been led toward the kicker, it wouldn't have been a problem.

Frampton has nice separation because you can see him moving away from the hotspot to the left of screen immediately prior to the ball spilling to Gray. Gray then snaps a ball which is curving away from Frampton and to the Hawthorn player's side of the contest, which meant Frampton had to go through the defender to get to the fall of the ball. The defender wasn't going to simply stand there and let Frampton go past him to take an uncontested mark.

He did have nice separation. But the role of a key forward is get where the ball is going, not to where you want the ball to be. Which is my point - why did he decide to engage straight away? If you go to the vision, you'll see that the defender looks around to see where Frampton is. Why make it easy for him by coming in from the side? That's exactly where a defender wants you to come from because he can push you out of the way and not give away a free kick.

He got to the fall of the ball here and would have marked it on the 2nd grab if Robbie didn't take it out of his hands. Not really sure he can be criticised for a skill error in not taking it one grab, but he'd protected the fall of the ball and controlled it, exactly what you've been criticising him for failing to do.

He really wouldn't have. I know Russell says he would have, but there were Hawthorn players around who would have taken the ball if Gray didn't. It wasn't like it was a small spill - it was lob out of his hands that anyone could have plucked out of the air at the time. It was almost like a looping handball.

Again, this isn't what happened at all. Frampton is held as he begins his lead which is both good defending and bad umpiring, but the uncontested kick still wasn't to his advantage. He delays his lead as the ball is clearly going to get to him on the half volley and is wrapped up as he takes possession by a far more experienced player. If you don't think more experience against AFL level defenders matters here, I don't know what to tell you. SANFL defenders wouldn't be good enough to get away with the hold to begin with.

He's not held. You can put one arm around the waist to halt momentum - it's when two arms go around that it's holding. The issue is that he's in a position for this to happen at all. It comes from thinking that he's stronger than his opponent and not pushing off correctly to get the half step needed. He didn't get wrapped up as soon as he took possession either - he wouldn't have got done holding the ball otherwise.

Again, this is just not what happened. Frampton did have separation and was leading across the face of the goal to open space. He doubles back because Rozee's kick goes behind him instead of in front of him, and then should have received a free kick for front on contact before being judged to have given one away. If Rozee kicks to Frampton's advantage, he takes an uncontested mark 15m out. Once Rozee has put the kick in the wrong spot, all he can do is try to protect the space and take the front on contact.

******** free kick against regardless.

There was no lead across the face of goal, and no doubling back, unless you call a jog a lead? If Frampton had lead hard across the face of goal like Howard does Rozee would have hit him. He's a key forward - he needs to demand the ball where he wants it and the kicker will put it there (or there abouts).

He would have got a free kick for front on contact but he initiated the contact first by extending out his arm to the side. As soon as you do that, you bring the defender into the marking contest. He did get the defender high (had his hand around his neck), so the free kick was there.

He leads to the ball, but it's kicked to his right, which means he breaks stride and the defender makes contact. Should he have marked it anyway? Probably. Would an SANFL defender have been right on his hammer and in a position to spoil? No chance. This is another example of Frampton doing the right thing but being caught a bit by high quality defenders. He'll learn from contests like that. Regardless, he presented well to the ball and brought it to ground.

Which is why I say that when an AFL quality key forward goes into the SANFL, you see them dominate. They are used to having to work hard to create separation. Tredrea kicked 8 goals or something when he played for the Magpies coming back from an injury, didn't he?

It's because he presents well to the ball and does little things like that that I believe he's worth persisting with.

He loses his footing briefly under a high ball, which is the only thing that stops him from taking the mark. But the idea that positioning and bodywork experience at AFL level wouldn't have helped with this contest is silly.

That's a bread and butter mark for a tall forward. You need to be able to take those because they are the 1 in 10 looks at a decent ball he's going to get.

The kick wasn't even to Frampton, and if it was it wasn't long enough, but it's another example of him generating the sort of separation you're talking about, he'd gotten miles ahead of his defender and took possession in the pack with his attach on the ball, leading to a HTB, which is a speed of the game and experience issue.

Never said it was to him. I'm asking why was he sitting in a position where he was more than a kick away from the play when we were obviously struggling to move the ball out of defence? If he had been 2 meters closer, he could have created a two on one with Butters opponent, taken him out of the contest and let Zak do his ground ball thing. Instead, it was the other way around.

Again, you're comparing a 3 gamer to guys with 39 and 126 games respectively. He wasn't perfect in these contests but watching the footage instead of looking at stills shows that he was generally presenting reasonably well and didn't get great delivery. Should he have held a mark or two in the forward line? Absolutely, but was his performance droppable when compared with say, Bonner's first several weeks? Howard's nightmare game? Are we a better football team now for having dropped him? Will we be a better football team moving forward for leaving him on 3 games instead of getting more experience into him?

(We would have scored in that quarter with a 2016 John Butcher in Frampton's position as well, but we decided to cut him and not have anyone else on the list who can do a job for us with Dixon out.)

If you don't think that experience made a difference here you are absolutely kidding yourself. The only way Frampton gets that experience is to be backed in at AFL level. Because of our poor key forward development, Frampton was generally matched up on a 200 gamer and previous All Australian in Frawley. If you don't think that experience makes a difference at the contest, I don't know what to tell you.

I know experience makes a difference. But what people were asking for is for the club to use an important game in Shanghai to give him that experience. It was never going to happen, and I don't blame either Ken or the other selectors for dropping him. He doesn't work hard enough at the moment to beat an AFL defence. You're exactly right when you say that SANFL defences wouldn't be on his hammer that way - so what's the harm in him going back into the SANFL and getting 1m of separation on the defenders instead of 0.5m? Learn to lead harder and more decisively.

He, like all our players in the SANFL, need to play as if they were playing in the AFL. Because if our best 22 played in the SANFL, they would be untouchable.

 

[Magus]

So how good is it gonna be when Ken gets sacked?

 

[Pappagallo]

So how good is it gonna be when Ken gets sacked?

Dude this is the lost faith thread not the sacking thread please try to stay on topic.

 

[Burton89onegoal]

I've lost my faith that the club is smart enough to know that he needs to be sacked

 

[El_Scorcho]

They are both standing next to each other. Frampton has enough time to grab onto Frawley's arm, he's got enough time to get to the fall of the ball. If Billy had been led toward the kicker, it wouldn't have been a problem.

This is just incorrect. Watch it again. Frampton sets up for the kick down the line, the ball is kicked to the other side of the contest, with Frawley between Frampton and the ball.

He did have nice separation. But the role of a key forward is get where the ball is going, not to where you want the ball to be. Which is my point - why did he decide to engage straight away? If you go to the vision, you'll see that the defender looks around to see where Frampton is. Why make it easy for him by coming in from the side? That's exactly where a defender wants you to come from because he can push you out of the way and not give away a free kick.

Ridiculous comment. Gray was probably trying to kick the goal. If he'd been where the ball landed, he would have been behind the defender and you'd be potting him for not being in an attacking position.

He really wouldn't have. I know Russell says he would have, but there were Hawthorn players around who would have taken the ball if Gray didn't. It wasn't like it was a small spill - it was lob out of his hands that anyone could have plucked out of the air at the time. It was almost like a looping handball.

He presents well and doesn't one grab it. A minor skill error but not the reason you're calling for him to be dropped, quite the opposite in fact.

He's not held. You can put one arm around the waist to halt momentum - it's when two arms go around that it's holding. The issue is that he's in a position for this to happen at all. It comes from thinking that he's stronger than his opponent and not pushing off correctly to get the half step needed. He didn't get wrapped up as soon as he took possession either - he wouldn't have got done holding the ball otherwise.

He ends up getting separation and if the kick had been long enough, he'd have marked it. He stopped his lead to take the ball on the bounce because it was a poor kick in.

Once he took possession, it's just about getting used to AFL speed. At SANFL level he'd have been able to raffle it off before a tackle stuck.

There was no lead across the face of goal, and no doubling back, unless you call a jog a lead? If Frampton had lead hard across the face of goal like Howard does Rozee would have hit him. He's a key forward - he needs to demand the ball where he wants it and the kicker will put it there (or there abouts).

This is factually incorrect. Watch it again. Frampton has a couple of metres of separation and is running clear across the face of goal. Rozee kicks it to the opposite point post and Frampton has to move back toward it, which let the defender back into the contest.

He would have got a free kick for front on contact but he initiated the contact first by extending out his arm to the side. As soon as you do that, you bring the defender into the marking contest. He did get the defender high (had his hand around his neck), so the free kick was there.

Yep, and this is exactly the sort of thing he'll only get better at by playing against intelligent, AFL level defenders.

Which is why I say that when an AFL quality key forward goes into the SANFL, you see them dominate. They are used to having to work hard to create separation. Tredrea kicked 8 goals or something when he played for the Magpies coming back from an injury, didn't he?

Tredrea was what, a 200 gamer 4xAA at that point? What a ridiculous comparison.

It's because he presents well to the ball and does little things like that that I believe he's worth persisting with.

That's a bread and butter mark for a tall forward. You need to be able to take those because they are the 1 in 10 looks at a decent ball he's going to get.

Yep, and he slipped, going down to one knee. It's not a poor decision, it's not a lack of positioning or a lack of attack on the ball, it's that long stops have been banned.

Never said it was to him. I'm asking why was he sitting in a position where he was more than a kick away from the play when we were obviously struggling to move the ball out of defence? If he had been 2 meters closer, he could have created a two on one with Butters opponent, taken him out of the contest and let Zak do his ground ball thing. Instead, it was the other way around.

We were struggling because of the defence hesitating. Frampton was probably expecting to get onto the subsequent kick but instead turned back around and led towards the ball, getting well away from his defender in the process.

I know experience makes a difference. But what people were asking for is for the club to use an important game in Shanghai to give him that experience. It was never going to happen, and I don't blame either Ken or the other selectors for dropping him. He doesn't work hard enough at the moment to beat an AFL defence. You're exactly right when you say that SANFL defences wouldn't be on his hammer that way - so what's the harm in him going back into the SANFL and getting 1m of separation on the defenders instead of 0.5m? Learn to lead harder and more decisively.

He, like all our players in the SANFL, need to play as if they were playing in the AFL. Because if our best 22 played in the SANFL, they would be untouchable.

The harm in going back to the SANFL is that it teaches him nothing about how AFL level defenders will position themselves, how hard they'll work, what tricks they'll use, or how they'll work as a team.

Hawthorn identified him as the only target worth worrying about and did their best to cut him out of the play. St Kilda would have presented a perfectly good chance for him to redeem himself a bit and stamp his authority on a game.

You love talking about how AFL quality forwards do this and AFL quality forwards do that, but you're totally ignoring the fact that the AFL quality forwards you're talking about weren't AFL quality in their first 3 games and had to be backed in through some down performances to find their feet at AFL level. Frampton was dropped after a single bad performance.

 

[Us against the rest]

They are both standing next to each other. Frampton has enough time to grab onto Frawley's arm, he's got enough time to get to the fall of the ball. If Billy had been led toward the kicker, it wouldn't have been a problem.



He did have nice separation. But the role of a key forward is get where the ball is going, not to where you want the ball to be. Which is my point - why did he decide to engage straight away? If you go to the vision, you'll see that the defender looks around to see where Frampton is. Why make it easy for him by coming in from the side? That's exactly where a defender wants you to come from because he can push you out of the way and not give away a free kick.



He really wouldn't have. I know Russell says he would have, but there were Hawthorn players around who would have taken the ball if Gray didn't. It wasn't like it was a small spill - it was lob out of his hands that anyone could have plucked out of the air at the time. It was almost like a looping handball.



He's not held. You can put one arm around the waist to halt momentum - it's when two arms go around that it's holding. The issue is that he's in a position for this to happen at all. It comes from thinking that he's stronger than his opponent and not pushing off correctly to get the half step needed. He didn't get wrapped up as soon as he took possession either - he wouldn't have got done holding the ball otherwise.



There was no lead across the face of goal, and no doubling back, unless you call a jog a lead? If Frampton had lead hard across the face of goal like Howard does Rozee would have hit him. He's a key forward - he needs to demand the ball where he wants it and the kicker will put it there (or there abouts).

He would have got a free kick for front on contact but he initiated the contact first by extending out his arm to the side. As soon as you do that, you bring the defender into the marking contest. He did get the defender high (had his hand around his neck), so the free kick was there.



Which is why I say that when an AFL quality key forward goes into the SANFL, you see them dominate. They are used to having to work hard to create separation. Tredrea kicked 8 goals or something when he played for the Magpies coming back from an injury, didn't he?

It's because he presents well to the ball and does little things like that that I believe he's worth persisting with.



That's a bread and butter mark for a tall forward. You need to be able to take those because they are the 1 in 10 looks at a decent ball he's going to get.



Never said it was to him. I'm asking why was he sitting in a position where he was more than a kick away from the play when we were obviously struggling to move the ball out of defence? If he had been 2 meters closer, he could have created a two on one with Butters opponent, taken him out of the contest and let Zak do his ground ball thing. Instead, it was the other way around.



I know experience makes a difference. But what people were asking for is for the club to use an important game in Shanghai to give him that experience. It was never going to happen, and I don't blame either Ken or the other selectors for dropping him. He doesn't work hard enough at the moment to beat an AFL defence. You're exactly right when you say that SANFL defences wouldn't be on his hammer that way - so what's the harm in him going back into the SANFL and getting 1m of separation on the defenders instead of 0.5m? Learn to lead harder and more decisively.

He, like all our players in the SANFL, need to play as if they were playing in the AFL. Because if our best 22 played in the SANFL, they would be untouchable.

Wow.

 

[Janus]

The harm in going back to the SANFL is that it teaches him nothing about how AFL level defenders will position themselves, how hard they'll work, what tricks they'll use, or how they'll work as a team.

Hawthorn identified him as the only target worth worrying about and did their best to cut him out of the play. St Kilda would have presented a perfectly good chance for him to redeem himself a bit and stamp his authority on a game.

You love talking about how AFL quality forwards do this and AFL quality forwards do that, but you're totally ignoring the fact that the AFL quality forwards you're talking about weren't AFL quality in their first 3 games and had to be backed in through some down performances to find their feet at AFL level. Frampton was dropped after a single bad performance.

Depends where you think we are at, doesn't it?

I think with Dixon, Wines, Rockliff and Hartlett to come into this team we can give the flag a real shake. The only people who are talking about getting games into Frampton are those who think we are no chance because of this or that.

The real issue is that since we are playing a two ruck system there just isn't the place for Frampton at the moment if Howard goes up forward to pair with Dixon.

 

[Us against the rest]

Depends where you think we are at, doesn't it?

I think with Dixon, Wines, Rockliff and Hartlett to come into this team we can give the flag a real shake. The only people who are talking about getting games into Frampton are those who think we are no chance because of this or that.

The real issue is that since we are playing a two ruck system there just isn't the place for Frampton at the moment if Howard goes up forward to pair with Dixon.

With Dixon coming back it doesn't leave room for Billy. The annoying thing for is, Frampton should have been selected earlier than he was, we would have gotten a better insight to where he's at over a longer period, like Neade, Amon, Butters, Duursma. Who would have thought the last two would still be in the side mid season.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Depends where you think we are at, doesn't it?

I think with Dixon, Wines, Rockliff and Hartlett to come into this team we can give the flag a real shake. The only people who are talking about getting games into Frampton are those who think we are no chance because of this or that.

The real issue is that since we are playing a two ruck system there just isn't the place for Frampton at the moment if Howard goes up forward to pair with Dixon.

If we were sitting 11-0 and 200%, every single game that Dixon is out should be used as an opportunity to get games into developing KPFs.

Obviously if I'd been in charge of selections we'd have pumped about 200 extra games into developing tall forwards during Hinkley's tenure, and we'd be in a dramatically better list position because of it.

The two ruck system will work better when we have a genuine lead KPF in Dixon because Ryder simply isn't capable of playing as a primary KPF.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The real issue is that since we are playing a two ruck system there just isn't the place for Frampton at the moment if Howard goes up forward to pair with Dixon.

The REAL issue is that Howard will go back into the backline with Dixon in and we'll keep naming Westhoff as a pseudo KPF despite the fact that he'll probably spend half his time across half back as well.

We'll continue to do this until we're mathematically out of the finals race then we'll probably pick Marshall for a round or two.

 

[Janus]

The REAL issue is that Howard will go back into the backline with Dixon in and we'll keep naming Westhoff as a pseudo KPF despite the fact that he'll probably spend half his time across half back as well.

We'll continue to do this until we're mathematically out of the finals race then we'll probably pick Marshall for a round or two.

Guess we'll see. I think Howard will stay forward now - Russell even intimated it in the Hawthorn game that he's going to transition into the forward line, and I reckon he gets a bit of info from the club.

Dixon + Howard = much wins. Especially since Hartlett has to find a spot in the back line anyway.

 

[AwwThatsApples]

The second half of the season (If things actually go as planned and expected) will be the real determining factor on Ken's stance at the club. If we are set to get back next to all of our experienced players then Ken will no longer have any holes to hide in.
If we fail with a near full strength list then, unfortunately, Ken will not be able to excuse himself.
Unless some more ballshit occurs to our list in the second half.

 

[OneGreatClub]

The second half of the season (If things actually go as planned and expected) will be the real determining factor on Ken's stance at the club. If we are set to get back next to all of our experienced players then Ken will no longer have any holes to hide in.
If we fail with a near full strength list then, unfortunately, Ken will not be able to excuse himself.
Unless some more ballshit occurs to our list in the second half.

A tough run from here but hopefully some more mild playing conditions and some players back ( Dixon, Hammer in particular) might get us the results. Sick of seeing us playing in the wet.

 

[FPPF]

This isn't on Jonas, perhaps our dumb as **** coach can explain on what ******* basis he was selected to play if he has only run twice in 5 weeks ? In what world was he going to be fit enough to run out an AFL game ?

Hinkley really is a complete joke. **** him off now !

It actually can be put back on Jonas partially.
He can make the call and say he's not available/fit for selection.

But there's no standards at the club, Ken does what he wants he has a gold pass from Koch, and s**t roles down hill. When the coach has no standards and doesnt hold players accountable, seniors and his favs get a gold pass, while youngsters who have a solid first game get dropped, what do you expect?
We need a new senior coach and some new assistants around, that will lift standards.

 

[JUSTWORK]

It actually can be put back on Jonas partially.
He can make the call and say he's not available/fit for selection.

But there's no standards at the club, Ken does what he wants he has a gold pass from Koch, and **** roles down hill. When the coach has no standards and doesnt hold players accountable, seniors and his favs get a gold pass, while youngsters who have a solid first game get dropped, what do you expect?
We need a new senior coach and some new assistants around, that will lift standards.

I recon you’d have to be a long way off as an AFL player to make that call, most who are boarder line, particularly the really competitive ones would want to be out there for the boys. More so when you’re a captain.

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

If Howard goes forward, then more than ever we need to recruit a 27yo 195cm centre half back until Grundy comes online.

 

[ClintEastwood]

He, like all our players in the SANFL, need to play as if they were playing in the AFL. Because if our best 22 played in the SANFL, they would be untouchable.

That's not true. When first 22 players go back to the Magpies, some have good games, some don't. There's very few occurrances of "untouchable".

 

[OneGreatClub]

If Howard goes forward, then more than ever we need to recruit a 27yo 195cm centre half back until Grundy comes online.

Maybe we should try and get this fella
195cm 28 yo
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...k/news-story/395e3c80334260ebdcd64ba043a4b186

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

Maybe we should try and get this fella
195cm 28 yo
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...k/news-story/395e3c80334260ebdcd64ba043a4b186

Good point. Disappeared from my thoughts, but a reasonable option.

 

[Janus]

That's not true. When first 22 players go back to the Magpies, some have good games, some don't. There's very few occurrances of "untouchable".

I’m talking about the entire first 22 going back to the SANFL.

 

[ClintEastwood]

I’m talking about the entire first 22 going back to the SANFL.

Okay. Let me know when that happens.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Okay. Let me know when that happens.

They'd be untouchable eh woohoo