Roast I've seen Ross Lyon-coached sides play more exciting football

Mahlepi

Cancelled
Mar 16, 2015
7,631
9,449
danger zone
AFL Club
Geelong
the issue is the abuse of the interchange
kb woke up, and tried to revise it, but noone at afl house wanted to listen
scrap the in quarter changes, and the game will open up, and will revert to what everyone loves
contests and open play
this rugby shite is a joke
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Partridge

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2002
35,987
38,973
AFL Club
Geelong
the diluted talent pool is the main problem

highly skilled teams can break through zones and flooding

when most teams have a lot of poor ball users then you only need to put them under pressure and they will cough it up because of all the weak links

I would go back to a 16 team comp and give the most exciting teams prime time slots regardless of ladder position (that gives clubs more incentive to play attractive football)

the boring overly defensive teams can get Sunday Arvo
True. But if a club recruits a player who can't kick - and that they know this is a weakness - it's no one else's fault. I still find it remarkable that in a game so professional, players can make it through to the top level and not be brilliant kicks. The clue is in the name of the game.

Blaming the talent pool for that to me is a copout. The clubs simply need to be more aware of fundamental skills and those that lack them are unlikely to magically develop them, no matter how hard they sweat or how much character they supposedly have.
 

goyoucatters

Premiership Player
Jan 31, 2008
3,234
6,758
Brisbane
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Stockport County, Chicago Cubs
But I do accept that when you are constantly on the back foot because of the midfield getting flogged it makes it hard to plan an execute anything else at all.
This is truly at the heart of so many of our issues. Even when we 'win' or break even in the clearances, we face the fact that so many of the opposition's clearances are cleaner and more dangerous than ours. Cripps was truly frightening in how he clobbered us through the middle again last night.

This makes us so reactive as we become fixated on ensuring that the floodgates don't burst open with all the unhindered opposition forays into our D50. So we end up with a morass of players in the back half with precious little run or risk to move it out of there when we have the chance. And opposition teams then pour forward and sweat on our pressured possessions close to our own goal, knowing how unlikely it is that we will truly seek to take them on coming out of defence.

This game style is definitely limiting the damage against us on the scoreboard. But it is utterly atrocious to watch. And you'd have to think that the better teams in the comp would totally fancy their chances against such a reactive game plan.

Says it all when you think that every week we are likely to be on the back foot in most stoppage situations, despite the presence of names like J. Selwood, Dangerfield and Ablett around the contest.

Pretty much impossible to think that we can be truly competitive against the top sides when this is the prevailing narrative of how the midfield 'battle' goes just about every week for us right now.
 

foxdog50

Premium Gold
Aug 1, 2006
4,891
4,487
Australia
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Australia (Cricket)
I don't think it's our current. It's the who competition.
I posted this on another thread

football to watch is not interesting at all... If i didn't follow Geelong as much as i do, i would rarely watch it as its so ugly to watch.Im mates with a former Captain of a AFL club and he doesn't rarely watch it as its so ugly to watch it. I hate rule changes but unfortunately its the only option.
Im pretty sure that in Womens VFL that when there is a throw in from the Boundary line, there has to be 3 players from each team in the 50 mt?? I think thats a highly option to try. Or there has to be some zone thing implanted into the rules... I feel like I'm old saying this but in only is my early 30s. I miss how players use to play there position, e.g. FF would never go up to the opposition defence. This is why Country/Local football is better to watch, as its such more of a open game as there not the whole 2 teams is in 1 teams forward half....
lol there my rant
 

iameviljez

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 20, 2004
11,906
12,130
Dili, Timor-Leste
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Pompey
It sucks but when we were playing fast paced football we were losing. Should have lost to Melb, did lose to the hawks. Is it better to win ugly or lose in an entertaining fashion?
On exposed form this year, they're both better sides than us - particularly Melbourne.

Overall, playing attacking football for me as a supporter does have some merit on a level comparable to winning/losing. I'd honestly trade one of our wins over the last month for some far better footy to watch and to play.
 

catswhiskers

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2006
3,812
5,465
Far North East
AFL Club
Geelong
The way the "modern game" is played and the rubbish we have been serving up for the last month or so are two different things. Half the modern game is about players working hard to put opponents under extreme pressure, then restricting them from doing anything effective with the ball in order to force a turnover. The second half of it, is then the ability to quickly transition from that turnover into a counterattack with quick kicking into an open forward line.
[SNIP]
When we do actually get the ball we have no urgency, and would rather kick sideways or handball around in congested areas, than kick forward, and to me it feels like this is completely against the instincts of the players. Not only that, it also ends up putting us under more pressure when we finally try to go forward because the other team has had ample time to get back. At least in the past two seasons, we had been able to play a more free-flowing style of game, it was enjoyable to watch, and suited our good players. This season is a stark contrast.
Apologies for the snip . What you say in your whole post resonates.

The bolded part is the nub. I look at our players as they play and they do seem to lack enthusiasm for the "game plan". Dangerfield looks like he is the only one given licence to just "do something". Even Ablett, Selwood, Hawkins, and Taylor when he plays look a bit bemused by their role in or by the game plan itself. Hawkins is now so frustrated by the slow forward motion he is losing the plot entirely.

Our mids - highly credentialled - routinely get beaten up at centre clearances and sometimes at stoppages around the ground. They seem to have lost their attacking flair. Duncan used to run through the middle and deliver beautifully to the forwards. Now he is getting it but not in a position to really attack. Ablett was a weapon, now he looks like a mid 50 pick toiling away. Even young Kelly seems to be losing it after coming in fresh.

Watching the game last night was the first time I have asked myself why do I bother watching live. Sitting at home I get a good look at what is going on in the huge packs following the ball. At the ground its hard to see anything in packs when the ball is on the other side of the ground.
On telly the rapid movement of the ball is good to watch but at the game you can see and anticipate what that sharp handball or inspired kick opens up and watch it unfold- you can see ahead of the play. It is much more fun and infectious. But it rarely happens any more.

To take this further - I reckon the Tiges tried for a couple of years (14 -16) to play using game plans. Failed. Then they basically said stuff it lets get our 22 to just go hard. The top 5 or 6 have a license to use initiative. The rest just do the necessary to help win contests and get the ball going forward. crash and bash. Caddy with us looked ordinary (confused?) now he looks a top quality unit. Martin and Cotchin and Rance etc have blossomed. Flag is flying. AND THEIR SUPPORTERS LOVE THE WAY THEY PLAY.

I suspect we will have to play out this season in the straight jacket. I am not looking forward to it.

On the game itself the only change I would like is to reduce sides to 16 on the ground +4. ............... More open ground for the creative players to use. More one on ones all around the ground. No rule changes . More reason to go to the game.
 

Turbocat

Premium Platinum
Dec 10, 2003
41,212
38,877
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
the issue is the abuse of the interchange
kb woke up, and tried to revise it, but noone at afl house wanted to listen
scrap the in quarter changes, and the game will open up, and will revert to what everyone loves
contests and open play
this rugby shite is a joke

KB does go on about interchange ... basically his answer to most ills.. is the players will get tired. Using his logic..at best then we are waiting for most of the game , enduring most of the game being a bog heap clog mire of player next to player next to player until finally they lack the ability to cover grass and opponent.

It might help but to me...its more than just one thing ...

KB never explains where is the logic in expecting a better game by making players more tired. Comparisons have been made to driving tired and being .05. Putting the genie back in the bottle is impossible just by going back to the old rules.. because knowledge of how to play the game has expanded. They know what crowding the ball does..how it protects the individual an makes it difficult for talent to show out. Geelong already play a slow tempo to try to play a control game ..I doubt interchanges would really make them play quicker. .. every club would do their best to save energy for later. The game is won by being ahead at the end of time... not by first to kick a certain score. It sets in play a def mindset.
 

manboob

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 11, 2009
28,082
34,796
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
#rompingwins
The defensiveness and slow ball movement is clearly intentional. Nathan Buckley described us pretty well after we beat them a few weeks ago:
We are playing long kicking slow footy. A variation of good finals footy. It will come together eventually.
 

Turbocat

Premium Platinum
Dec 10, 2003
41,212
38,877
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
Apologies for the snip . What you say in your whole post resonates.

The bolded part is the nub. I look at our players as they play and they do seem to lack enthusiasm for the "game plan". Dangerfield looks like he is the only one given licence to just "do something". Even Ablett, Selwood, Hawkins, and Taylor when he plays look a bit bemused by their role in or by the game plan itself. Hawkins is now so frustrated by the slow forward motion he is losing the plot entirely.

Our mids - highly credentialled - routinely get beaten up at centre clearances and sometimes at stoppages around the ground. They seem to have lost their attacking flair. Duncan used to run through the middle and deliver beautifully to the forwards. Now he is getting it but not in a position to really attack. Ablett was a weapon, now he looks like a mid 50 pick toiling away. Even young Kelly seems to be losing it after coming in fresh.

Watching the game last night was the first time I have asked myself why do I bother watching live. Sitting at home I get a good look at what is going on in the huge packs following the ball. At the ground its hard to see anything in packs when the ball is on the other side of the ground.
On telly the rapid movement of the ball is good to watch but at the game you can see and anticipate what that sharp handball or inspired kick opens up and watch it unfold- you can see ahead of the play. It is much more fun and infectious. But it rarely happens any more.


To take this further - I reckon the Tiges tried for a couple of years (14 -16) to play using game plans. Failed. Then they basically said stuff it lets get our 22 to just go hard. The top 5 or 6 have a license to use initiative. The rest just do the necessary to help win contests and get the ball going forward. crash and bash. Caddy with us looked ordinary (confused?) now he looks a top quality unit. Martin and Cotchin and Rance etc have blossomed. Flag is flying. AND THEIR SUPPORTERS LOVE THE WAY THEY PLAY.

I suspect we will have to play out this season in the straight jacket. I am not looking forward to it.

On the game itself the only change I would like is to reduce sides to 16 on the ground +4. ............... More open ground for the creative players to use. More one on ones all around the ground. No rule changes . More reason to go to the game.
Where do you sit at the ground. I was wondering today.. if my disjointed mindset to how the game is being played ..may be because most of the commentators watch the game side on. The TV cameras are side on.Id like to see the coaches give seats behind the goals and let the see what its like to see every man and his dog all up the other end.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

foxdog50

Premium Gold
Aug 1, 2006
4,891
4,487
Australia
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Australia (Cricket)
Imagine if Hawkins played back in the 90s. Iv got no doubt he would of kicked a 100 goals in a season. #bringbackthetraditionalfullforwad
 

Ratcat

Premiership Player
Aug 28, 2017
3,243
3,251
AFL Club
Geelong
Imagine if Hawkins played back in the 90s. Iv got no doubt he would of kicked a 100 goals in a season. #bringbackthetraditionalfullforwad
I reckon we need the traditional CHF for that to work for Tom at FF.
CHF no place to stand tied ruckman.
 

steady2

Club Legend
Jun 25, 2013
2,523
4,105
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Chris Scott was Assistant Coach to Lyon at Freo.. from 2008 to 2010
Garbage! Scott retired as a player from the Lions in 2007, Lyon was then in his first season at St Kilda. In 2008 to 2010 Scott was Assistant Coach to Mark Harvey at Freo, while Lyon was still coaching the Saints. In 2011, the year that Scott coached Geelong to the flag, Lyon was still coaching St Kilda, at the end of that year Harvey was stabbed in the back and Lyon went to Freo. Scott has never been assistant coach to Lyon, nor vice versa.

I suppose it helps to invent 'facts' or perpetrate mendacity to assist in the development of a narrative that has no basis on reality.
 

Turbocat

Premium Platinum
Dec 10, 2003
41,212
38,877
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
For the first time ever, I'm seriously questioning where the game is heading. I know it's been heading down a bad path for a while, but I think I've been in denial. I agree with many of the experts, particularly the old-school ones, the game is no longer an exciting spectacle. I am normally dead against rule changes, but something has to happen. Time to reduce how many players per side are on the field or a certain number of players are restricted/ confined to certain areas. I never thought I'd be advocating this. Really sad. Thinking about not renewing my social club membership and just purchasing a 3-game or general admission membership with the intention of just watching my Cats on the TV. I still want to financially support my great club, so those options are appealing. I didn't go last night, I just watched it on foxtel. I'm glad I didn't. Something I am doing more of lately.
If the Geelong rep who used to post on this board would read some of this... it would change.... little to nothing (probably nothing unfortunately).

Its like asking a business to care about quality and the environment and other social issues... but in the end only one thing really matters to them.Making money. Not getting caught breaking the rules while making money , being clean green citizens , being a banner leader in the rainbow parade are all good clothes ..but what what feeds the dog is making money. Make no money..no business.

And just like a business a footy club is all for entertainment , and kicking goals , being fan friendly , taking a lead in social issues , wearing orange socks and visiting old peoples homes.. but it all starts to mean jack.. if they don't win.When was the last coach sacked .. for playing lousy style that was winning?

So in the end we are just cows to be milked. Hey cows ..why dont you moo more when the players need a bit of a lift. Hey cow please buy a $100 raffle ticket. Hey cow dont you forget to buy your membership this year and next ..can we setup an auto debit. hey cow how dare you critic the farmer..you just don't understand the modern farm. We have coaches who thinks its a good idea to reduce game time even more. 20 minute quarters are too long ..the game is too long , the youth of today just cant handle games being to drawn out , we need to get those families home earlier. As if.. reducing the playing time onfield will mean we get home earlier... dont they know the clubs got to sell hamburgers and donuts in that extra time between quarters to all the cows that got off their chairs and came?

Yep I guess Im questioning where its heading to.. but like Partridge said... Its a professional game now.
 

Turbocat

Premium Platinum
Dec 10, 2003
41,212
38,877
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
Garbage! Scott retired as a player from the Lions in 2007, Lyon was then in his first season at St Kilda. In 2008 to 2010 Scott was Assistant Coach to Mark Harvey at Freo, while Lyon was still coaching the Saints. In 2011, the year that Scott coached Geelong to the flag, Lyon was still coaching St Kilda, at the end of that year Harvey was stabbed in the back and Lyon went to Freo. Scott has never been assistant coach to Lyon, nor vice versa.

I suppose it helps to invent 'facts' or perpetrate mendacity to assist in the development of a narrative that has no basis on reality.
Fair enough . If he was not there im wrong. He was not under Lyon while he was at Freo. Noted.
 

catswhiskers

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2006
3,812
5,465
Far North East
AFL Club
Geelong
Where do you sit at the ground. I was wondering today.. if my disjointed mindset to how the game is being played ..may be because most of the commentators watch the game side on. The TV cameras are side on.Id like to see the coaches give seats behind the goals and let the see what its like to see every man and his dog all up the other end.
On the 50. So a good view of one half of the ground and I have good eyes so I can see the action at the other end too until it gets too congested.

But watching VFL of course I get to sit side on. Its not much different. 40 players in or very near one forward 50 zone make watching the action in any detail quite difficult.

These days a fair bit more game time is spent in or near each forward 50 than in the zone between I suspect.

KP being longer and skinnier improves the TV view versus the at ground view.
 

Turbocat

Premium Platinum
Dec 10, 2003
41,212
38,877
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
On the 50. So a good view of one half of the ground

But watching VFL of course I get to sit side on. Its not much different. 40 players in or very near one forward 50 zone make watching the action in any detail quite difficult.

These days a fair bit more game time is spent in or near each forward 50 than in the zone between I suspect.

KP being longer and skinnier improves the TV view versus the at ground view.
well I'm behind the goals ..which I always thought of as a players view.. but certainly not a modern spectators view.
 
Last edited:

ATSAM

Club Legend
Mar 6, 2009
2,412
2,196
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Apologies for the snip . What you say in your whole post resonates.

The bolded part is the nub. I look at our players as they play and they do seem to lack enthusiasm for the "game plan". Dangerfield looks like he is the only one given licence to just "do something". Even Ablett, Selwood, Hawkins, and Taylor when he plays look a bit bemused by their role in or by the game plan itself. Hawkins is now so frustrated by the slow forward motion he is losing the plot entirely.

Our mids - highly credentialled - routinely get beaten up at centre clearances and sometimes at stoppages around the ground. They seem to have lost their attacking flair. Duncan used to run through the middle and deliver beautifully to the forwards. Now he is getting it but not in a position to really attack. Ablett was a weapon, now he looks like a mid 50 pick toiling away. Even young Kelly seems to be losing it after coming in fresh.

Watching the game last night was the first time I have asked myself why do I bother watching live. Sitting at home I get a good look at what is going on in the huge packs following the ball. At the ground its hard to see anything in packs when the ball is on the other side of the ground.
On telly the rapid movement of the ball is good to watch but at the game you can see and anticipate what that sharp handball or inspired kick opens up and watch it unfold- you can see ahead of the play. It is much more fun and infectious. But it rarely happens any more.

To take this further - I reckon the Tiges tried for a couple of years (14 -16) to play using game plans. Failed. Then they basically said stuff it lets get our 22 to just go hard. The top 5 or 6 have a license to use initiative. The rest just do the necessary to help win contests and get the ball going forward. crash and bash. Caddy with us looked ordinary (confused?) now he looks a top quality unit. Martin and Cotchin and Rance etc have blossomed. Flag is flying. AND THEIR SUPPORTERS LOVE THE WAY THEY PLAY.

I suspect we will have to play out this season in the straight jacket. I am not looking forward to it.

On the game itself the only change I would like is to reduce sides to 16 on the ground +4. ............... More open ground for the creative players to use. More one on ones all around the ground. No rule changes . More reason to go to the game.
And now Duncan is playing behind the centre so he can't play that attacking style that was successful for him and us. It was discussed on K-Rock today with the observation that we have lost one of our two best kicks into the forward line or for goal.. The other one is Ablett.
 

bigfarter

Club Legend
Aug 15, 2009
2,762
7,373
AFL Club
Geelong
I agree with the OP. I love watching us play - never miss a game, will watch a replay if social commitments prevent me from watching live - but last week and last night I got no joy out of it at all. The umpiring, which I VERY rarely complain about, has been awful which added to frustrations but we've been playing terrible and, more importantly, BORING footy. If we keep playing this style my "must-watch" will quickly evaporate and I'll be out seeing bands or movies instead of watching our games live. You could literally watch the 6 minute highlights package from the AFL Youtube page and not have missed anything important from last night's match.

Competition-wise, I thought the answer was maybe some restriction on how many/few players can be in the respective forward 50s at any time but then I just think "Imagine our amateur umpires trying to count how many players are there and paying free kicks accordingly" and can imagine howler after howler leading to goals and momentum halts. I don't know what the answer is but whenever I see a team looking to find a target inside 50 and the camera shows 40 blokes standing there I just roll my eyes. It's shit to watch and I'm someone who could sit through our recent 100 point drubbing by Sydney and still be glibly entertained.
 

Footy Smarts

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 19, 2006
6,798
9,785
AFL Club
Geelong
True. But if a club recruits a player who can't kick - and that they know this is a weakness - it's no one else's fault. I still find it remarkable that in a game so professional, players can make it through to the top level and not be brilliant kicks. The clue is in the name of the game.
But kicking is such a minor part of the game. Football isn't really an accurate description of our game. Not many players get more than 10 kicks a game yet they'll pressure, harass, shepherd, run to support, spoil, etc in total hundreds of times a game. It's no surprise that coaches care about pressure more than kicking now because players will try and apply pressure so much more than they'll get the ball and kick it. It's just basic logic to concentrate on the things that they do the most.
 

hamG

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 29, 2007
5,427
2,101
Kew
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks
I agree with the sentiment BUT our previous game plan with better & more experienced players failed to get to the grand final. Our structure leaked bags of goals in short periods and we could never recover.

There is plenty of time to refine how we play plus feel free to tell Mathew Scarlett you don't like his defensive structure and see how that works out :handfist:
 

Landgraft

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 18, 2016
5,074
8,982
AFL Club
Geelong
Current structure worked really well stopping Essendon from scoring in the first half last week.
Or Sydney in the last quarter. But footballing structures are, weirdly enough, not foolproof mechanisms. All can break down and fail, but if you take a broader view then you can see how they generally work.

We are generally defending well.
 

Top Bottom