Rumour JA to Gold Coast?

[Invigoration]

I reckon your wit is wasted here.

JA certainly deserves better than having stupid rumous like this being spread, especially when by all accounts he's a fantastic guy.

Haha, probably

And yeah, I've said it on here before, but from the couple of times I met him I couldn't speak any more highly of him. He came across to me as an extremely humble and nice bloke, one that absolutely loved Collingwood.

I think there probably was some legs behind the thoughts that he came to the club with a bit of an inflated self-worth, but what 18 year old kid fresh out of highschool that gets drafted wouldn't?
I think even Jack touched on it himself in an interview, that joining the club was a bit of a wake up call for him and made him realise how much he needed to mature.
All accounts from people who have actually met him would suggest he took the criticism on board.

A lot of the rumour stems from the alleged incident with Buddy at a nightclub which occurred very early in his career I reckon, seems to have flowed on from there.

It's disappointing that it keeps popping up for Jack, someone who clearly bleeds black and white - you need only look at the Adelaide final for that - but also because this sort of thing was what made JAJH stop posting around here.

 

[didaka]

Can't say I agree Didaka.
Dawes is far from a sure thing yet, he is nowhere near it actually. He is still yet to even play on a decent backman, he could just as easily be out of the side in 2 weeks after coming up against Tarrant and Scarlett.

With that in mind, I think it's pretty unlikely we'd be willing to let JA go, especially after the promise he showed last year. A fit and firing JA is still my go to FF.

While Dawes continues to insist on marking absolutely everything on his bloody chest, I'm reluctant to declare him as the answer.

Don't really think that's is a rumour either, more so just people outside the club joining their own dots. They see he was dropped from the side, can't get a game at the moment and therefore link him the the GC. But it is a bit more complex than that, he only got dropped because of a poor pre-season and he is playing twos now to regain fitness.
He is not far away from the seniors at all and I reckon he has a long career ahead at Collingwood, I think we'd be doing our absolute best to lock him in to stay.

If we lost JA now it'd leave us with Rusling as backup for the FF spot, can't say that fills me with with much confidence.

In saying all that, I do believe the GC will be interested, so JA may entertain the idea. I think he knows he is still well in the mix at the Pies though.

I used to be pretty scathing of Dawes because I thought he was a blouse, and I was correct, fortunately he has toughened up and he contests harder, which was definitely needed.

Now I look at Dawes, the inroads he has made, and then I think about where he'll be at with a full season of football and the confidence that goes with it at AFL level. I do think his hands have improved. You don't generally see the best forwards taking big high marks with their hands in the air more than 1-2 times a game anymore anyway, and I believe Dawes has been taking 1 or 2 each week in front of his eyes, and he's attempting more. Is his marking a weakness, maybe to an extent, but he won't be out marked and that leads to a big improvement when you have nippy smalls at his feet. I don't think it's any coincidence that Cloke's form has improved either since we have been playing a bigger, stronger key forward along side him.

My problem with Anthony up forward (and I do like Jack) is that I don't think he has improved significantly and I don't see him improving significantly where as with Dawes, the thoughts of him with 50 games behind him seems to be much more influential on our side than Jack Anthony.

I think if you looked at Jack's averages from his first year to his second year, you'd find that there wasn't a lot of improvement in output, and then of course he started behind the 8 ball this year which is critical.

I would say that Dawes this season will comfortably average Jack's 2 goals per game, but will have more impact on contests and will probably attract more football. And then improve next year also.

Jack to me is stuck between. He doesn't have the ability to play as a 3rd option as he is that type of player that will still need a lot of space, yet he doesn't have a weapon (like Rusling's leg speed) to ever be looked upon as a great full-forward option.

Just my thoughts. Feel welcome to disagree.

 

[TradeDraft]

Haha, probably

And yeah, I've said it on here before, but from the couple of times I met him I couldn't speak any more highly of him. He came across to me as an extremely humble and nice bloke, one that absolutely loved Collingwood.

I think there probably was some legs behind the thoughts that he came to the club with a bit of an inflated self-worth, but what 18 year old kid fresh out of highschool that gets drafted wouldn't?
I think even Jack touched on it himself in an interview, that joining the club was a bit of a wake up call for him and made him realise how much he needed to mature.
All accounts from people who have actually met him would suggest he took the criticism on board.

A lot of the rumour stems from the alleged incident with Buddy at a nightclub which occurred very early in his career I reckon, seems to have flowed on from there.

It's disappointing that it keeps popping up for Jack, someone who clearly bleeds black and white - you need only look at the Adelaide final for that - but also because this sort of thing was what made JAJH stop posting around here.

Well you could be Spot On as it came from Stories before and just when he did come to the Club and people make stuff up about That player.

Yeah the Emotions he showed after the Semi Win vs Crows shows how much he loves the Club and that is very good indicator he be Doubtful on leaving

 

[Invigoration]

Bottom line is that we'll have to lose somebody and it cant be a dud like Corrie or Rusling. As much as I rate Anthony I'd rather keep Dawes. Its impossible to see both of them in our 22, assuming of course that Cloke stays. Ideally I'd like to keep both of them but one of them will have to play VFL. They are both better than VFL standard.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to lose one. It's just that the GC has the option to take one, if you have signed everyone up, then it's just the GC's bad luck.

 

[mdc]

My problem with Anthony up forward (and I do like Jack) is that I don't think he has improved significantly

Stop the presses. A guy that was injured all pre-season hasn't improved significantly.

I also find this particularly bizarre:

He is not big enough to command respect from opponents like Scarlett and Lake while Dawes is

For starters, Jack commanded plenty of respect for both. Unfortunately for him, they both smashed him, but he's not the first or the last.

Secondly, Dawes hasn't even played on either yet, so how on earth do we know? I'm personally terrified of what Scarlett could do on the rebound against Dawes in Rd 9, but that might just be me.

 

[didaka]

Read harder MDC. I didn't think his output had significantly improved from his 1st to 2nd season.

And his second half of 2009 was pretty poor.

 

[Invigoration]

I used to be pretty scathing of Dawes because I thought he was a blouse, and I was correct, fortunately he has toughened up and he contests harder, which was definitely needed.

Now I look at Dawes, the inroads he has made, and then I think about where he'll be at with a full season of football and the confidence that goes with it at AFL level. I do think his hands have improved. You don't generally see the best forwards taking big high marks with their hands in the air more than 1-2 times a game anymore anyway, and I believe Dawes has been taking 1 or 2 each week in front of his eyes, and he's attempting more. Is his marking a weakness, maybe to an extent, but he won't be out marked and that leads to a big improvement when you have nippy smalls at his feet. I don't think it's any coincidence that Cloke's form has improved either since we have been playing a bigger, stronger key forward along side him.

My problem with Anthony up forward (and I do like Jack) is that I don't think he has improved significantly and I don't see him improving significantly where as with Dawes, the thoughts of him with 50 games behind him seems to be much more influential on our side than Jack Anthony.

I think if you looked at Jack's averages from his first year to his second year, you'd find that there wasn't a lot of improvement in output, and then of course he started behind the 8 ball this year which is critical.

I would say that Dawes this season will comfortably average Jack's 2 goals per game, but will have more impact on contests and will probably attract more football. And then improve next year also.

Jack to me is stuck between. He doesn't have the ability to play as a 3rd option as he is that type of player that will still need a lot of space, yet he doesn't have a weapon (like Rusling's leg speed) to ever be looked upon as a great full-forward option.

Just my thoughts. Feel welcome to disagree.

Nah, two very well made posts and I find myself agreeing with a good chunk of both of them. I'm probably just a little more ambivalent towards the two guys and don't really find myself leaning as strongly either way. I fully agree about the 3 tall setup, I really don't think it can work which concerns me. Obviously if we are only playing 2 KPF it leaves us with one of the boys languishing in twos which is going to become an increasing difficult problem to manage and you couldn't blame the more unfortunate one to seek out better opportunities.
It'll be interesting to see how the coaches handle it going forward.

Anyway, I've gotta go to class, but I'd like to write a more detailed reply later because it's a good topic.

 

[Swan4Brownlow]

I think that Jack would have realised after last year that he had to icnrease his strength if he was to compete in a wrestle with the likes of Tarrant, Merret, Lake and Scarlett. However, he had a shoulder operation at the end of the season and only really just made it to the line round 1. Obviously his opportunities to hit the gym in order to build some bulk would have been seriously limited. Compare this to Dawes who has had a few years of playing in the 2's and developing his body and strength. Jack is a seriously good forward considering he grew up as a backman, and is still learning the caper. Sure Dawes may be able to hold down a KPF role, but like has been mentioned, he's played a handful of games. He still has to prove himself against the best in the business starting this weekend.

We must also consider the fact that this will likely be Presti's last year, and if for some reason Reid or Brown don't come on as we'd hoped, slotting Jack back into defence could come in handy as we don't have very many other options as tall defenders. The fact that he's been compared to a clone of Jimmy Clement is reason enough for us to keep him.

It would be naive to think that injuries/losses of form don't occur. Jack is a smart bloke I'm fairly certain that when Mick sat him down and told him he was dropped he would have also outlined the things Jack needs to do to get back into the side. These would include regaining match fitness and touch and strength. IMO Jack shouldn't really be judged until this time next year if and when he's completed a full preseason and had the opportunity to build up his strength in the gym. Nobody can say with any certainty one way or the other right now whether Jack or Dawesy will prove to be better forwards, but the bias towards Dawes after 3 promising but ultimately less than earth shattering games is surprising. If Dawesy comes out and kicks 8 this weekend and takes marks like Jonathon Brown then all the pumping up of him will be warranted. Just my 2 cents worth

 

[Pie eyed]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to lose one. It's just that the GC has the option to take one, if you have signed everyone up, then it's just the GC's bad luck.

Correct.
They can take one un-contracted player.
That player will either not be considered worthy of a contract by the club, or have been offered huge bucks and declined to sign a contract with the club.

 

[mdc]

Read harder MDC. I didn't think his output had significantly improved from his 1st to 2nd season.

His output improved in terms of possessions and tackling. Also, when you take into account he only began to draw the opposition's no.1 defender at the start of his second season, it's a testament to him that he didn't actually regress.

Not to mention that when your output is 50goals/season, you don't really need to improve much. You're already a very damaging forward.

And his second half of 2009 was pretty poor.

Not true. His finals series was rubbish, but that's largely because we were smashed in the midfield in 2/3 games.

The 4 weeks leading into the finals he was averaging 16 touches, 8 marks and 2.75 goals. And 3 of those games were against Rutten, Bolton and Lake (the other coming against Richmond).

 

[mattys123]

I hate these rumours, but they are going to continue until at least the end of next season, as we will go through this process all again with West Sydney next year, and Sheedy will be much more aggressive then the GC have been.

In regards to Jack, like most of us here, I have no idea whether he would even consider a move, but I sincerely hope he doesn't.

With Medhurst, Davis, Leigh Brown and Lockyer not getting any younger, there will be plenty of room in our forward line in a few years for the 3 so called "talls" in Cloke, Dawes and Anthony.

I am one of the "believers" in a 3 tall system, mainly because they all have their own unique attributes and abilities. I believe Jack Anthony could learn to play a Paul Medhurst type role also, playing more as a "feeder" to the other forwards, and chipping in with a few shots at goal per game.

Jack isn't a high marking forward like Dawes and Cloke, he is a pure leading forward, and this is why I believe all 3 can work together.

It only would work with Josh Fraser out of the side though, as he spends far too much time "clogging up time and space" in the forward line for such a low return.

Try and keep Jack desperately should be our approach, I would prefer to lose a Goldsack, Barham, Blight type to the GC and WSYD then a "real" top 22 player like Jack.

Time will tell though, sit back and enjoy the ride in the meantime.

 

[Pie eyed]

Sidey is out of contract.......
Wood too.

Fact is the signatures will come and the vultures will circle still but only for scraps...as vultures do.

 

[PieBeast]

Bottom line is that we'll have to lose somebody and it cant be a dud like Corrie or Rusling. As much as I rate Anthony I'd rather keep Dawes. Its impossible to see both of them in our 22, assuming of course that Cloke stays. Ideally I'd like to keep both of them but one of them will have to play VFL. They are both better than VFL standard.

I disagree, Dawes while showing signs of improvement looks far from convincing.
Would hate to lose Jack.

 

[daics_35]

When is Didak gonna sign FFS!

 

[TradeDraft]

I disagree, Dawes while showing signs of improvement looks far from convincing.
Would hate to lose Jack.

He has Played 13 Games and What KPF has looked super convincing after 13 Games?

 

[leons magic]

I for one do not want to lose JA, i think he is a solid player with to many good attributes to be losing at such a young age. He has shown last year that he can contribute as a forward, and to my knowledge was drafted as a defender and could be used down there if we get some injuries to some of the other young defenders if they do not come on as we had hoped. I think its JA's flexibility that makes him such valued player that you would strive to keep and also through observation that he has no glaring weakness.

In saying all this i do not believe full forward is his suited position, you can rave on all you like that he kicked 50 goals last yr etc, but the fact of the matter is when he comes up against the really good defenders in the crunch games he really does struggle due to being of medium size and not having the pace of say a rusling to burn them on the lead. I think JA would kick around the 50 goals a year consistently which is no doubt a decent return, however i dont see him doing much better than that and he would still always struggle in the big games against the top defenders due to the reasons i mentioned before (he can improve his strength, but i dont think he will ever be able to match it with a Scarlett, Lake or Glass etc). Ideally i think he is a third tall in the forward line, if not maybe should be given a chance in defence as neither Ried or Brown has cemented themselves as an AFL class defender (yet) although both are showing signs.

I obviously would not be suprised if the Gold Coast took a serious look at him come seasons end or any other club for that matter, but that will all depend on Chris Dawes and his performance, who i and perhaps the club think is better suited to our structure and the position of full forward. I think JA will definetly have to consider his options from his own personal view at the end of the year if Dawes makes the full forward position his own.

 

[TradeDraft]

Secondly, Dawes hasn't even played on either yet, so how on earth do we know? I'm personally terrified of what Scarlett could do on the rebound against Dawes in Rd 9, but that might just be me.

Didn't we say the same thing 2 years ago about Scarlett on Rocca as by that Time Rocca was just about pass it and Injury Prone. So his Speed and fitness was gone.

But with Rocca taking Scarlett up the ground was 1 of the main reason why we flogged them.

Doubt Scarlett and Cats will fall for the same thing twice but I am not suspecting a Mircale from Dawes

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I disagree, Dawes while showing signs of improvement looks far from convincing.
Would hate to lose Jack.

With a bit of luck we'll keep them both and may the best man win, but Dawes to me looks the complete footballer. Anthony had a whole season to show his wares last year and did very well, albeit his stats were embellished by his accurate kicking. Dawes now has the gig and its up to him to hold his spot in the 22.

 

[Football God]

I want him too stay.

 

[Thommo 42]

He has Played 13 Games and What KPF has looked super convincing after 13 Games?

Jack Anthony kicked 29 goals in his first 13 games, that was pretty convincing. He wasn't playing in a side that won by 10 goals every week either.

People have short memories around here. I love Dawes, but that doesn't render Anthony useless, and nor does his past couple of games against spuds mean he has gone past Jack, our reigning leading goalkicker.

 

[JOELY]

getting pretty sick of these threads about GC "targets" and "rumours". fact is GC are looking at anybody they can, it's not a big deal. it's way to early to be thinking about this and JA will likely be in the side playing good footy in a few weeks making all these "rumours" void. lets can the hysteria until the end of the season where we can look at hard facts.

 

[TradeDraft]

Jack Anthony kicked 29 goals in his first 13 games, that was pretty convincing. He wasn't playing in a side that won by 10 goals every week either.

People have short memories around here. I love Dawes, but that doesn't render Anthony useless, and nor does his past couple of games against spuds mean he has gone past Jack, our reigning leading goalkicker.

Who said Jack was Usless, He is Far from Usless. He is just about the Best Kick for Goal in the AFL. The problem is:

1) He is out of Form.

2) Still can't see him being the FF who takes the number 1 Defender

 

[Thommo 42]

Is he out of form? He has kicked 10 goals in his past 2 reserves matches hasn't he? thats the sort of form it took Dawes 3 years to replicate, and the finally forced him into the team.

He played FF last year and got the #1 defender on many occasions, and he kicked 50 goals.

He started ok against the Dogs before fading and was clearly not fit. When he is fit, he is our best 22. At the expense of who, I have no idea - that will be up to MM.

I'd be super surprised if it came to September and Anthony wasn't in our side.

 

[Bay Pie]

I'm realy happy with what Dawes provides us structurally and his individual contribution.

JA to me is a star in the making. How often does a guy come along at his age and show nerves of steel like that in the Crows SF.

He is the best kick we've had for goal since I can remember. If he were to be able to fit in with Dawes & Cloke, possibly even swing between forward & back like Adam Hunter used too, we have a real weapon.

Remember back to the 2007 finals series when Rusling was great as our 3rd tall. Obviosusly JA doesn't have Ruslings jet speed, but he is no plodder either. He have a shoulder op over pre-season so wouldn't have been able to build his upper body strength as much as he would have liked.

Once he gets his defensive pressure, which will come with match fitness and he gets inluded in our 22, he will destroy most 3rd tall defenders.

Absolute must sign.

 

[PieBeast]

With a bit of luck we'll keep them both and may the best man win, but Dawes to me looks the complete footballer. Anthony had a whole season to show his wares last year and did very well, albeit his stats were embellished by his accurate kicking. Dawes now has the gig and its up to him to hold his spot in the 22.

IMO JA looks a lot more dangerous in front of big sticks, he was just unfit few weeks ago. But yeah, hopefully we can keep them both.