Player Watch Jack Crisp

[Kappa]

Yep definatly when the coaches say to many passengers you can bet he is always one of them but they keep picking him these are the duds that will end Buckleys career coach killer need to recognise a few of the others to Adams greenwood white Maynard and plenty I've missed.

Smith Goldsack Ramsay Moore White Varcoe ?

 

[Baird]

VFL player.

 

[half_back_flank]

He's a squib. Awful thing to say about a footballer, but it was confirmed for me when he pulled out in that contest in the third on the half back flank. He continually shits himself in contested situations and has a dirty habit of going for a ground ball one handed and refusing to put his body behind the ball.

 

[Rorzza]

Another player that I had written off after 6 rounds basically due to the inconsistencies in his kicking. While he is still prone to the occasional shank he has been an excellent contributor across half bank flank with his run and carry. Still only 23 years old so has time to clean those foot skills or decision making up.

 

[ash84]

Worst 'supporters' on here. say he should be delisted one week, then praise him the next...

 

[robertg22]

He had some shocking early clangers vs West Coast but came home strong. He looks really comfortable down back, good move by Bucks & co to put him there.

 

[TW Sherrin]

he can have a long term role at half back. tall, quick and tough makes him a difficult assignment for small forwards. I loved how he took the game on in the last qtr. I think he has a reasonable kicking technique with most of his turnovers depth related. that's fixable.

 

[jackcass]

Another player that I had written off after 6 rounds basically due to the inconsistencies in his kicking. While he is still prone to the occasional shank he has been an excellent contributor across half bank flank with his run and carry. Still only 23 years old so has time to clean those foot skills or decision making up.

Heater is still among the poster boys for run and carry HBFer's and he still has more than his fair share of shanks (and not the lamb variety). I'm not sure why we as a supporter group are so tolerant of these flaws in players at other clubs or that we'd like to recruit while at the same time seem to hold our current players to much higher standards. I'm yet to see a player at senior VFL-AFL level who was 100% perfect in their disposal across a lengthy career. Be nice if we could work out how to do it at Collingwood, just doubt it'll ever happen. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to see all of our players improve their disposal, just don't think it's as significant an issue as some suggest. I'd be happier still to see greater chemistry among the playing group, a more consistent work rate across the squad, and improved decision making.

 

[Apex36]

Heater is still among the poster boys for run and carry HBFer's and he still has more than his fair share of shanks (and not the lamb variety). I'm not sure why we as a supporter group are so tolerant of these flaws in players at other clubs or that we'd like to recruit while at the same time seem to hold our current players to much higher standards. I'm yet to see a player at senior VFL-AFL level who was 100% perfect in their disposal across a lengthy career. Be nice if we could work out how to do it at Collingwood, just doubt it'll ever happen. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to see all of our players improve their disposal, just don't think it's as significant an issue as some suggest. I'd be happier still to see greater chemistry among the playing group, a more consistent work rate across the squad, and improved decision making.

We got spoiled for 1 year with Davis running at something stupid like 90% DE off half back and forgot that 99.9% of players aren't capable of that kind of consistency by foot.

 

[robertg22]

We got spoiled for 1 year with Davis running at something stupid like 90% DE off half back and forgot that 99.9% of players aren't capable of that kind of consistency by foot.

Ben Reid at his peak was pretty darn good by foot also.

 

[jackcass]

Ben Reid at his peak was pretty darn good by foot also.

But still not immune to a shank.

 

[doodles98]

he can have a long term role at half back. tall, quick and tough makes him a difficult assignment for small forwards. I loved how he took the game on in the last qtr. I think he has a reasonable kicking technique with most of his turnovers depth related. that's fixable.

That's a good observation actually TW. He hit's the ball pretty well off the boot and the direction is there just not the range.

 

[Damon_3388]

he can have a long term role at half back. tall, quick and tough makes him a difficult assignment for small forwards. I loved how he took the game on in the last qtr. I think he has a reasonable kicking technique with most of his turnovers depth related. that's fixable.

He's got a bit of Toovey about him size-wise and athletically, but with even more pace and actual depth to his kicking.

 

[TW Sherrin]

He's got a bit of Toovey about him size-wise and athletically, but with even more pace and actual depth to his kicking.

Tooves probably a better overhead mark but Crisp kicks it better. Tooves prone to kicking mungs. Crisp hits it nice off the boot and does have range.

 

[jackcass]

He's got a bit of Toovey about him size-wise and athletically, but with even more pace and actual depth to his kicking.

I think we forget how quick Tooves was before his knee.

 

[Prochard123]

Haven't really been that impressed by him like others have.

Still get out-bodied by alot of opposition forwards, fumbly and has a shaky kick.

Looking alright back, but still under the impression that he's a natural inside mid who could potentially play half forward. He'd be invaluable as a medium forward if he can kick 2 goals a game and maybe 15-18 touches. He's fast, agile and looks like a capable mark.

The thing is we have alot of accumulators already, Treloar, Wells, Sidebottom, Phillips, Pendlebury all get huge disposal numbers and look weaker getting their own ball. Having Crisp getting 25-30 touches a game off half-back really doesn't help us, we need qualify disposals. Him getting a lead-up mark on the wing that helps us transition forward is probably worth 5 useless chip kicks down back.

I actually think Bucks was on track by playing Pendlebury off half-back, the timing just wasn't right. Last year Pendlebury was still ok at clearances/inside work, instead of being somewhat a liability at clearances these days with his weak tackling pressure. Now's the time to play Pendlebury off half-back and rotate through the midfield.

WE CANNOT PLAY BOTH PENDLEBURY AND TRELOAR AT A CENTRE BOUNCE. The tackling pressure just isn't there, this is another Dayne Beams scenario where our mids can get large numbers but allow opponents to get similar numbers at the same time. Optimal stoppage setup would be:

Adams + De Goey + Pendlebury/Treloar

When De Goey or Adams are resting or on the bench,

play:
-Crisp/Greenwood (not at the same time)
-Wells
-Wills etc (Maybe even Maynard)

FB: Maynard ~ Dunn ~ Howe
HB: Scharenberg~ Schade ~Pendlebury
C: Wells ~ Treloar ~ Sidebottom
HF: Crisp ~ Moore ~ WHE
FF: Elliot ~ Reid ~ Fasolo
Ruck: Grundy ~ De Goey ~ Adams
Int: Greenwood, Phillips, Goldsack, Broomhead

All of a sudden, look, we have skillful kicks all across the board. This is the sort of team if we want to execute Bucks gameplan/attempt at copying Bulldogs/Hawks' gameplan, but this team would almost certainly crumble in 2010 under MM as I feel there are too many players here who don't win their own ball.

 

[TW Sherrin]

I think we forget how quick Tooves was before his knee.

Jack Darling remembers......

 

[jackcass]

Haven't really been that impressed by him like others have.

Still get out-bodied by alot of opposition forwards, fumbly and has a shaky kick.

Looking alright back, but still under the impression that he's a natural inside mid who could potentially play half forward. He'd be invaluable as a medium forward if he can kick 2 goals a game and maybe 15-18 touches. He's fast, agile and looks like a capable mark.

The thing is we have alot of accumulators already, Treloar, Wells, Sidebottom, Phillips, Pendlebury all get huge disposal numbers and look weaker getting their own ball. Having Crisp getting 25-30 touches a game off half-back really doesn't help us, we need qualify disposals. Him getting a lead-up mark on the wing that helps us transition forward is probably worth 5 useless chip kicks down back.

I actually think Bucks was on track by playing Pendlebury off half-back, the timing just wasn't right. Last year Pendlebury was still ok at clearances/inside work, instead of being somewhat a liability at clearances these days with his weak tackling pressure. Now's the time to play Pendlebury off half-back and rotate through the midfield.

WE CANNOT PLAY BOTH PENDLEBURY AND TRELOAR AT A CENTRE BOUNCE. The tackling pressure just isn't there, this is another Dayne Beams scenario where our mids can get large numbers but allow opponents to get similar numbers at the same time. Optimal stoppage setup would be:

Adams + De Goey + Pendlebury/Treloar

When De Goey or Adams are resting or on the bench,

play:
-Crisp/Greenwood (not at the same time)
-Wells
-Wills etc (Maybe even Maynard)

FB: Maynard ~ Dunn ~ Howe
HB: Scharenberg~ Schade ~Pendlebury
C: Wells ~ Treloar ~ Sidebottom
HF: Crisp ~ Moore ~ WHE
FF: Elliot ~ Reid ~ Fasolo
Ruck: Grundy ~ De Goey ~ Adams
Int: Greenwood, Phillips, Goldsack, Broomhead

All of a sudden, look, we have skillful kicks all across the board. This is the sort of team if we want to execute Bucks gameplan/attempt at copying Bulldogs/Hawks' gameplan, but this team would almost certainly crumble in 2010 under MM as I feel there are too many players here who don't win their own ball.

Disagree on a lot of that, particularly around Pendles. The last thing we need is another slow intercept defender, particularly 1 as unaccountable as Pendles. You say his clearance number last year were sufficient to retain him in the midfield group for that season yet 2015 and 2016 were his lowest average clearance years (4.6) in his career other than his debut season (3.7). This year he's at 5.2 and while he has had as high as 6.4 (2012), the 5.2 is his career average. Still in the top echelon of midfielders league wide so I'm very happy for him to remain there.

Crisp seems to do his best work behind the footy and given we need pace in defence I'm not sure why we'd want to move him forward given the progress he's shown settling there.

I'm not sure what Schade has done to merit selection ahead of the Sack.

 

[Prochard123]

Disagree on a lot of that, particularly around Pendles. The last thing we need is another slow intercept defender, particularly 1 as unaccountable as Pendles. You say his clearance number last year were sufficient to retain him in the midfield group for that season yet 2015 and 2016 were his lowest average clearance years (4.6) in his career other than his debut season (3.7). This year he's at 5.2 and while he has had as high as 6.4 (2012), the 5.2 is his career average. Still in the top echelon of midfielders league wide so I'm very happy for him to remain there.

Crisp seems to do his best work behind the footy and given we need pace in defence I'm not sure why we'd want to move him forward given the progress he's shown settling there.

I'm not sure what Schade has done to merit selection ahead of the Sack.

Right, ok.

I suggested having Pendles off-back and midfield split 50-50, not because it's his best position, but because it's the best for the team, we have very few actually damaging and reliable kicks to set up plays off half-back. We do not fully utilise Pendles' kicking skills at clearances, as it's very hard for inside mids to do anything but bomb it inside 50 these days.

Pendles offensive ability at contests has never been doubted, I think you're missing the point here. It's his tackling and defensive aspect that concerns me, we cannot have both Treloar and Pendles letting opposition mids run free. Treloar can't play another position so by default Pendles goes back as it's theoretically the best for the team.

Crisp doesn't have what it takes to be a capable off half-back. He doesn't break lines, he doesn't have elite footskills, and his kicks don't have depth either. He can be an OK shut-down defender in a pocket, but not at half-back.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Crisp doesn't have what it takes to be a capable off half-back. He doesn't break lines, he doesn't have elite footskills, and his kicks don't have depth either. He can be an OK shut-down defender in a pocket, but not at half-back.

footy's a funny game. I don't rate Langdon but many do (he was however good in the last 10 on Sunday).

you see crisp very different to me.

the only part of the above I agree on is he doesn't have elite kicking skills but I reckon he is capable of getting much better at it. He broke the lines several times on Sunday and was very important running through the square in the last qtr.

I also reckon his kicking has depth. Most of his kicks are off contested balls or scramble balls in our D50 (not through zoning off waiting for the sideways release kick). In this situation he is either handballing to run through the square (which is what they've been trying to do for 3 years) or hitting up short leads through the corridor. We also don't have a big target at half forward to kick to.

If he was outside free wheeling (Shaw / Wilson) and hitting short targets I'd agree on his kicking but that's not the position he is in.

 

[Prochard123]

footy's a funny game. I don't rate Langdon but many do (he was however good in the last 10 on Sunday).

you see crisp very different to me.

the only part of the above I agree on is he doesn't have elite kicking skills but I reckon he is capable of getting much better at it. He broke the lines several times on Sunday and was very important running through the square in the last qtr.

I also reckon his kicking has depth. Most of his kicks are off contested balls or scramble balls in our D50 (not through zoning off waiting for the sideways release kick). In this situation he is either handballing to run through the square (which is what they've been trying to do for 3 years) or hitting up short leads through the corridor. We also don't have a big target at half forward to kick to.

If he was outside free wheeling (Shaw / Wilson) and hitting short targets I'd agree on his kicking but that's not the position he is in.

Fair enough.

The problem with Crisp is not his speed. He just lacks awareness and seem to get caught way more times than he should, agility ok but not great either, then you have his abysmal kicking.

Compare him to Shaw, Williams, Wilson, Roberton, Laird, Docherty, Tuohy?

What weapon does he have? In what area does he stand-out as a half back?

 

[TW Sherrin]

Fair enough.

The problem with Crisp is not his speed. He just lacks awareness and seem to get caught way more times than he should, agility ok but not great either, then you have his abysmal kicking.

Compare him to Shaw, Williams, Wilson, Roberton, Laird, Docherty, Tuohy?

What weapon does he have? In what area does he stand-out as a half back?

Wilson would be my no2 target this off season. your list is 5 of the best flankers in the comp (although I reckon Shaw is getting close to the end). Docherty is a cheap possession merchant. cant have him or the hype.

crisp's weapon is his pace/run. give him some time and I am optimistic he'll be good. he hasn't played much footy back there.

 

[Prochard123]

Wilson would be my no2 target this off season. your list is 5 of the best flankers in the comp (although I reckon Shaw is getting close to the end). Docherty is a cheap possession merchant. cant have him or the hype.

crisp's weapon is his pace/run. give him some time and I am optimistic he'll be good. he hasn't played much footy back there.

Yes I see future improvement in Crisp, but the problem is that he doesn't havent even one dominant trait that he can build on.

Docherty is an absolute A grader, however like you said you can't have too many of them, but having just 1 player like Docherty down back to provide a steady, consistent and reliable release downback is reliable. His kicks are just so precise that it goes exactly where you want it at an incredibly high accuracy. Docherty would be perfect under Bucks' game plan, but no way Carlton trades him. In fact, I have Docherty as the #1 HB in the game right now.

 

[ash84]

Everyone shanks kicks.
Dangerfield statistically is one of the worst kicks in the comp, but i rate him as an elite kick.

 

[Prochard123]

Everyone shanks kicks.
Dangerfield statistically is one of the worst kicks in the comp, but i rate him as an elite kick.

Yes, but as an inside mid, his weakness is very much disguised. Around contests the only kicking attribute relevant is the distance gained, but around the ground obviously this isn't true.

The demand for good kicking skills of inside mids is low.