News Jack Dyer Stand may go in $60m Punt Road Oval redevelopment

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I am referring to the planned expansion.
The new degrees are corporate PR nonsense.
Give funding to existing institutions.

the new degrees are with Swinburne, an existing institution

they are choosing to do them with us rather than solely at their campus.

how is the PR spin when its an existing institution with a history in sports related degrees and certs?
 

theflea

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 16, 2010
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the new degrees are with Swinburne, an existing institution

they are choosing to do them with us rather than solely at their campus.

how is the PR spin when its an existing institution with a history in sports related degrees and certs?
There has been some dodgy tafe diploma's and certificates recently, but ASIC has clamped down on most of them. Now the gov is looking hard to identify any shifty practices. Major tafe institutions generally don't have these and swinny is pretty good. It uses our sports facilities to cluster learning into theory components, so I don't think they are crapola at all. I wouldn't think they make much money, but think they are worthwhile.
 

PetterdHoisted

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Apr 27, 2014
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It does bear mentioning that off-field success i.e. big revenue, does provide the club with an ability to devote ever greater resources to winning games, and hopefully premierships. Without the revenue, we fall into the equalisation trap of hoping that the dollars given to us by pokies subsidised clubs will be enough to hire elite professionals.

The amount of time people spend sitting in the stands is extraordinarily low. The amount of revenue we can bring in from those wonderful souls watching VFL and buying pies and chips is pretty low. When you compare that to the potential of a facility that gets used orders of magnitudes more often, across a wide breadth of categories, all year around, we can bring in vastly more revenue, and also provide a greater outcome to society.
For those of us in a privileged position of employment, housing, gender, race etc. we simply cannot fathom what others suffer. We can be in a position to help hundreds/thousands of people live better lives, whilst being able to have the best resources for our team. Win/Win.

Unfortunately, the comparison to the ladies stand at the SCG is slightly unfair. The SCG's primary revenue stream is selling hosting of events, getting people to watch the events and selling the people food. They have the space to build big around it, and the entire SCG holds 48,000 and the most they've had since 2003 is 46,323. They have never run out of space in the last 15 years, so they don't need to think about expansions or replacements.

I've followed the Tigers my entire life, my family has been on the bandwagon for nigh on 75 years, and none of us have any emotional connection to the stand. I imagine there will be more members/supporters that are in that category than emotionally attached to the stand.

The stand looks great, but I can tell you that I will trade in all of the stands in Victoria for a premiership.

tl;dr - I want premierships for the club, and to be a better societal contributor. If the stand stands in the way of that, and it's not heritage listed, it probably should go.
'The JD stand stands in the way of Richmonds success'

It'd the wedge they are using, but it has no rationale behind it, don't believe it.

Stand/bridge on the Brunton Av side is how the club can move on to bigger and better things.
 

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PetterdHoisted

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Yes let’s sit on our hands and not make any improvements to our facilities when the opportunity presents itself and then wonder why other clubs go past us because we were resting on our laurels.
You may think classrooms are useless, but that’s how we got our current facilities built and it’s the only way to get government funding and it’s been a key to building our culture.
The opportunity is there, Brunton Av side.

Think big, not small.
 
Super-salient point. In an era of renewal of Urban grounds, not a cent for PRO.

Why?

Because the solution at PRO will also be the solution to the OHS disaster that is Richmond station/Brunton Av/MCG.

Bigger fish have a stake here.

the cross bridge is happening regardless, its joining the platforms to yarra park

nothing to do with us. the idea some people have of a mega building built over brunton ave isnt happening
 
the cross bridge is happening regardless, its joining the platforms to yarra park

nothing to do with us. the idea some people have of a mega building built over brunton ave isnt happening
Yep might be harsh but just pure delusion.
 

PetterdHoisted

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 27, 2014
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the cross bridge is happening regardless, its joining the platforms to yarra park

nothing to do with us. the idea some people have of a mega building built over brunton ave isnt happening
Exactly! A bridge must be built and will be built.

Meanwhile there is 10s of mill stand proposal for PRO.

Why not join the dots? I don't quite understand the thinking here, I've heard no good argument opposing a stand on the Brunton Av side.
 
Exactly! A bridge must be built and will be built.

Meanwhile there is 10s of mill stand proposal for PRO.

Why not join the dots? I don't quite understand the thinking here, I've heard no good argument opposing a stand on the Brunton Av side.

Isnt it space? the distance between the footpath and the oval
 

PetterdHoisted

Norm Smith Medallist
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Isnt it space? the distance between the footpath and the oval
I'll try to post image, sorry if I stuff it up.

The edge of the MCG turf is 62 metres from Richmond railway tracks:

MCG distance.png



Straight line from the end of Richmond platform to PRO turf is the same distance, of course there is more and less room on the left and right, but we don't need a stand the size of the MCG!:

PRO distance.png


The land between Richmond station and Brunton Avenue is substantial near Punt Rd, and this is exactly where they don't want pedestrians going. As I said previously, remove the portico and ticket sales structures and route Brunton Av hard up against the train station (as it does at the MCG) and there is space for a more-than-modest stand. Brunton Av re-route would cost more than demo of the JDS, but not wildly more.
 

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On the idea of going to the members, quite frankly the more the club can get done without having to ask the members for permission the better.

People are by and large emotional creatures, and unable to look past that to make competent decisions.

The general feeling on the outrage squad side seems to be ‘keep it cause it’s old’ ‘who cares if it costs millions to bring up to standard for a short period, even though that money could be far better used within the club, it’s old’

This is the reason why our professional footy club, operating in a professional environment need to bypass the members wherever possible. The board quite honestly should be trying to chip away at the constitution wherever possible to get memberships closer to season tickets than full voting memberships.

The only question here should be, can the stand be replaced by something that is more financially viable and more fit to purpose for a modern day AFL franchise. If the answer is yes, raze the damn thing and move on.

The ‘It’s old’ idiot squad - The scourge of modern day cities trying to modernise. Move on people. New is always better

We aren’t talking about a thousands year old marvel of humanity.
 

PetterdHoisted

Norm Smith Medallist
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Obviously we just reduce a lane on the road
No, Brunton Ave must not be reduced or VicRoads will kaibosh, but propose a re-route so that it follows Richmond station all the way along as it does at the MCG, I think they'd agree. (They must hate Brunton Ave being blocked for hours for every big footy game at the 'G)
 
I'll try to post image, sorry if I stuff it up.

The edge of the MCG turf is 62 metres from Richmond railway tracks:

View attachment 559356


Straight line from the end of Richmond platform to PRO turf is the same distance, of course there is more and less room on the left and right, but we don't need a stand the size of the MCG!:

View attachment 559357

The land between Richmond station and Brunton Avenue is substantial near Punt Rd, and this is exactly where they don't want pedestrians going. As I said previously, remove the portico and ticket sales structures and route Brunton Av hard up against the train station (as it does at the MCG) and there is space for a more-than-modest stand. Brunton Av re-route would cost more than demo of the JDS, but not wildly more.

they wont be rerouting brunton avenue (or closing it permanently as some here have suggested previously)

the crossover needs to hit parkland so as to not bottleneck punters. It will go into Yarra Park the same as the Melbourne Park bridge does, not the Richmond lease area IMO.

the bridge is easier and simpler without integrating it into a building
 

PetterdHoisted

Norm Smith Medallist
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they wont be rerouting brunton avenue (or closing it permanently as some here have suggested previously)

the crossover needs to hit parkland so as to not bottleneck punters. It will go into Yarra Park the same as the Melbourne Park bridge does, not the Richmond lease area IMO.

the bridge is easier and simpler without integrating it into a building
Indeed the bridge would primarily direct foot traffic to the 'G but you can see from the map it won't end far from PRO, else it would need to be 100m+ long and very expensive.

'Re-route Brunton' is an exaggeration anyway. One could close the two north side lanes, and build two more on the south side- would open up enough space and be cheaper again.

You may say 'they won't', but what I'm trying to say is 'they can'. There is the space, if there is the will.

The fate of JDS aside, the Brunton Ave wing is a much better place to put a new stand imo, far more accessible, and imagine the potential of a large electronic billboard on the outside of such a stand, seen by millions every week!
 
Indeed the bridge would primarily direct foot traffic to the 'G but you can see from the map it won't end far from PRO, else it would need to be 100m+ long and very expensive.

'Re-route Brunton' is an exaggeration anyway. One could close the two north side lanes, and build two more on the south side- would open up enough space and be cheaper again.

You may say 'they won't', but what I'm trying to say is 'they can'. There is the space, if there is the will.

The fate of JDS aside, the Brunton Ave wing is a much better place to put a new stand imo, far more accessible, and imagine the potential of a large electronic billboard on the outside of such a stand, seen by millions every week!

of course "they can". thats a fantasy discussion however like Eddies idea of turning Richmond station into a subway and building a new stadium on Swan Street.

the redevelopment isnt primarily about a new stand - its about facilities for training and KGI and so on.

that triangle plot is no good for that type of building
 
of course "they can". thats a fantasy discussion however like Eddies idea of turning Richmond station into a subway and building a new stadium on Swan Street.

the redevelopment isnt primarily about a new stand - its about facilities for training and KGI and so on.

that triangle plot is no good for that type of building
Yep if it was just a new stand they’d renovate and redevop the JDS, wouldn’t be a $60 million job to put in a tiny stand, the sooner the plans are released so people can look at it rationally with all the facts rather then being overly emotional.
 
On the idea of going to the members, quite frankly the more the club can get done without having to ask the members for permission the better.

People are by and large emotional creatures, and unable to look past that to make competent decisions.

The general feeling on the outrage squad side seems to be ‘keep it cause it’s old’ ‘who cares if it costs millions to bring up to standard for a short period, even though that money could be far better used within the club, it’s old’

This is the reason why our professional footy club, operating in a professional environment need to bypass the members wherever possible. The board quite honestly should be trying to chip away at the constitution wherever possible to get memberships closer to season tickets than full voting memberships.

The only question here should be, can the stand be replaced by something that is more financially viable and more fit to purpose for a modern day AFL franchise. If the answer is yes, raze the damn thing and move on.

The ‘It’s old’ idiot squad - The scourge of modern day cities trying to modernise. Move on people. New is always better

We aren’t talking about a thousands year old marvel of humanity.

Attitudes like yours are what derail the thread and torpedo any discussion of compromise.

Believe it or not I think there is room for compromise that get us both a fantastic modern facility and retain a very important part of the club and the city's heritage.

Follow your line of reasoning to the logical conclusion and we may as well abandon Punt rd for a custom facility in the suburbs because we won't be constrained by things like leases and limited footprint.

Rather than dismissing everyone with different opinions to yours as dinosaurs stuck in the past how about see if you can find a way to get both. And if you believe there simply is no way, spell it out for us in non emotive speech.
 
Sep 28, 2002
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Attitudes like yours are what derail the thread and torpedo any discussion of compromise.

Believe it or not I think there is room for compromise that get us both a fantastic modern facility and retain a very important part of the club and the city's heritage.

Follow your line of reasoning to the logical conclusion and we may as well abandon Punt rd for a custom facility in the suburbs because we won't be constrained by things like leases and limited footprint.

Rather than dismissing everyone with different opinions to yours as dinosaurs stuck in the past how about see if you can find a way to get both. And if you believe there simply is no way, spell it out for us in non emotive speech.

If you don’t want to be labelled a dinosaur stuck in the past, then stop being a dinosaur stuck in the past.

Derailing the thread? Lack of compromise?

What compromise? Is the shitty old thing fit for purpose? If no, Is it more viable to renovate or raze it and start afresh?

They are the only valid questions. There needs be no compromise. The club will do as it pleases. 95% of the members won’t give a s**t and we will move on. If the government comes to the party, we will be free of one eyesore that no one other than a handful of screeching minority dinosaurs care about.

& yes, if it could be shown the club would be better off abandoning its traditional home for the suburbs, why not? We haven’t played there for 55 years. Who gives a crap where they train? Had Craigieburn worked and we moved out there, would you have been any less happy last September?
 

PetterdHoisted

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 27, 2014
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If you don’t want to be labelled a dinosaur stuck in the past, then stop being a dinosaur stuck in the past.

Derailing the thread? Lack of compromise?

What compromise? Is the shitty old thing fit for purpose? If no, Is it more viable to renovate or raze it and start afresh?

They are the only valid questions. There needs be no compromise. The club will do as it pleases. 95% of the members won’t give a s**t and we will move on. If the government comes to the party, we will be free of one eyesore that no one other than a handful of screeching minority dinosaurs care about.

& yes, if it could be shown the club would be better off abandoning its traditional home for the suburbs, why not? We haven’t played there for 55 years. Who gives a crap where they train? Had Craigieburn worked and we moved out there, would you have been any less happy last September?
I think we want to stay at PRO, but long term it will be hard, too many other clubs want what we have- a regulation-size footy stadium a stones throw from the MCG. Hell even Melbourne has to train on an open paddock further from the 'G than us, and Eddie snuggled up as close he could for now.

I think eventually the AFL will want to get their hands on PRO and do it up as a boutique stadium for minor games and as a shared training facility. For instance, for what nearly happened this week with an interstate side playing two finals within 6 days, the AFL need a place so they can stay in Melbourne and train.

We kicked the cricket club out of PRO cause we were the bigger fish, if the AFL comes knocking, the same could happen to us. However if we show we care about our history and connection to PRO by maintaining things like the JDS, we have a strong case to fight them off.
 
I dare say sinking millions into the ground to keep it up to standard for a home base for a modern elite sporting organisation speaks more for the desire to stick around then keeping a old stand with not much use that’s falling apart...
 
I think we want to stay at PRO, but long term it will be hard, too many other clubs want what we have- a regulation-size footy stadium a stones throw from the MCG. Hell even Melbourne has to train on an open paddock further from the 'G than us, and Eddie snuggled up as close he could for now.

I think eventually the AFL will want to get their hands on PRO and do it up as a boutique stadium for minor games and as a shared training facility. For instance, for what nearly happened this week with an interstate side playing two finals within 6 days, the AFL need a place so they can stay in Melbourne and train.

We kicked the cricket club out of PRO cause we were the bigger fish, if the AFL comes knocking, the same could happen to us. However if we show we care about our history and connection to PRO by maintaining things like the JDS, we have a strong case to fight them off.

the third melbourne stadium idea is dead now the AFL own Marvel

interstate teams are demanding more G games, and this gives the AFL an excuse to swap low drawing marvel games to the g, with mid drawing games switched to marvel
 

theflea

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 16, 2010
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27,878
victoria
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I think we want to stay at PRO, but long term it will be hard, too many other clubs want what we have- a regulation-size footy stadium a stones throw from the MCG. Hell even Melbourne has to train on an open paddock further from the 'G than us, and Eddie snuggled up as close he could for now.

I think eventually the AFL will want to get their hands on PRO and do it up as a boutique stadium for minor games and as a shared training facility. For instance, for what nearly happened this week with an interstate side playing two finals within 6 days, the AFL need a place so they can stay in Melbourne and train.

We kicked the cricket club out of PRO cause we were the bigger fish, if the AFL comes knocking, the same could happen to us. However if we show we care about our history and connection to PRO by maintaining things like the JDS, we have a strong case to fight them off.
This is my compromise of the situation. I want to stay at PRO, and if that means knocking down the JD stand, then so be it.
 

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