Jack Ginnivan - Redemption arc

[sr36]

You’re quite literally clutching your pearls about something Dermott did 30 years ago.

Clearly don't know what literally means.

I was actually just pointing out the ridicuusness of the blokes who have annointed themselves as ambassadors for football etiquette - it's ridiculously comical. Dermie, Hodge, Lewis . They had their time and they were ****ing great but their etiquette isn't for everyone and sure as **** shouldn't be. Just as funny is Eddie McGuire chiming in with Kenny should get a big punishment - it wouldn't have gotten near his highlights - wouldn't have even made his list of jovial gaffes. You can be thankful that it isn't just ex Hawks in the media who are a joke.

 

[Farang83150]

Disingenuous for not mentioning Ginni?

Below is from my first in this thread. I discussed Ginni's immaturity at length before I mentioned Ken Hinkley. Go back and read it for yourself:

So yeah, I'm not and haven't argued that Ginni's comments weren't immature.

And likewise, in calling Jack a "very young player", Sam Mitchell was highliting the state of Ginni's emotional maturity.

And as a society, we expect more emotional maturity from a 57-year-old than we do from s 21-year-old.

I stand by that view.

Had Ken responded to Ginnivan's pre-match comments before the game, and publicly backed his team in by doing it, he would have come across as less of a coward.

And has been since been independently confirmed, Ken's comments didn't stop at friendly banter with "you're not flying anywhere", as he had initially falsely claimed.

If that's what he had said, then it's a bit cringeworthy to see a 57-year-old resorting to the sameimmature taunts as a 21-year-old. And his timing was incredibly disrespectful to Breust.

But that'snot what he said.

In his heightened emotional state, he escalated it and shouted "you're not flying anywhere, Jack, you little f*ckwit!"

Having just heard an opposition coach shout "Jack, you little f*ckwit", James Sicily was entirely right as captain to have a word to Ken Hinkley. That was an act of leadership.

Frankly, James would have been delinquent in his role as a captain and a leader to not say anything.

Hinkley knew he went too far. That's why in his post-match interview he falsely claimed that he only told Jack that he was not flying anywhere, leaving off the bit about calling him a "little f*ckwit".

He didn't immediately own up, because he's a coward.

In Sam Mitchell's press conference, he mostly spoke about his disappointment about the season being over. He also highlighted Port Adelaide's dominance and praised Luke Breust.

So the main reason he was visibly upset in that press conference was because his team had just been eliminated in a close final, not because of the incident.

His main comments about the incident were in praise of the leadership James Sicily showed.

In the one line the media has shown repeatedly out of context, Mitchell accurately pointed out that Jack is very young relative to Ken, and that Ken has been in the game for a very long time.

Sam also alluded to Ken's "little f-wit" comment as being aggressive words. I think most reasonable people would agree that calling someone a "f-wit" is aggressive language.

So yes, Jack is an emotionally immature 21-year-old.

The main person who was morally at-fault is Ken Hinkley, a view that's shared by the AFL's investigation of the incident.

And both James Sicily and Sam Mitchell have handled this incident well.

"A coward"..., are you kn serious?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Clearly don't know what literally means.

I was actually just pointing out the ridicuusness of the blokes who have annointed themselves as ambassadors for football etiquette - it's ridiculously comical. Dermie, Hodge, Lewis . They had their time and they were *ing great but their etiquette isn't for everyone and sure as * shouldn't be. Just as funny is Eddie McGuire chiming in with Kenny should get a big punishment - it wouldn't have gotten near his highlights - wouldn't have even made his list of jovial gaffes. You can be thankful that it isn't just ex Hawks in the media who are a joke.

It’s only ridiculously comical if you cant recognise that that was all 10+ years ago, in the field of play.

Not after the siren.

 

[bluespooner]

I blame collingwood for setting poor standards of player behaviour.

There is way too much group think going on at collingwood with the tattoos being the visual manifestation but the ugliness runs much deeper.

 

[sr36]

It’s only ridiculously comical if you cant recognise that that was all 10+ years ago, in the field of play.

Not after the siren.

You're not getting it.

Dermie, Hodge and Lewis were hard as nails. Their eitiquette on the field was brutal. They'd go out and regularly hit contests with the aim of hurting their opponents. They would have tested out Petracca and may have killed him if he had have gone back on in the condition he did this year. And they were controlled and usually polite at the end of the game. Private school manners. That was their footy etiquette and that of many others in eras gone. And if you listen to them and how hard they want blokes to not get suspended for knocking someone out. It's the etiquette they think everyone and the game should still adhere to. And frankly, they're not even consistent with their own footy etiquette - only the parts of it which suit the Hawk narrative. Sicily would have copped it big time from here on in for showing how much he can be triggered.

But their etiquette has never been everyone's footy etiquette. Many thought they were snipers and a thug in Dermie's case. But these blokes who crossed the etiquette lines of many are out there preaching footy etiquette. So yes I find it comical that these blokes who outraged many have appointed themselves as guardians of football etiquette. Others are outraged by the ducking or Ginni being a smartarse in and out of the field of play, or the goal celebrations, **** knows where the lines of others are.

So yes in their world, and your line about "field of play" suggests you think the same, Kenny crossed a line - but it's just their line and your line - most have different lines to these blokes. Heaps just think Kenny's antics were funny. Made even funnier becasue Sicily got so triggered and the Hawks are talking it up as leadership. I know I do.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You're not getting it.

Dermie, Hodge and Lewis were hard as nails. Their eitiquette on the field was brutal. They'd go out and regularly hit contests with the aim of hurting their opponents. They would have tested out Petracca and may have killed him if he had have gone back on in the condition he did this year. And they were controlled and usually polite at the end of the game. Private school manners. That was their footy etiquette and that of many others in eras gone. And if you listen to them and how hard they want blokes to not get suspended for knocking someone out. It's the etiquette they think everyone and the game should still adhere to. And frankly, they're not even consistent with their own footy etiquette - only the parts of it which suit the Hawk narrative. Sicily would have copped it big time from here on in for showing how much he can be triggered.

But their etiquette has never been everyone's footy etiquette. Many thought they were snipers and a thug in Dermie's case. But these blokes who crossed the etiquette lines of many are out there preaching footy etiquette. So yes I find it comical that these blokes who outraged many have appointed themselves as guardians of football etiquette. Others are outraged by the ducking or Ginni being a smartarse in and out of the field of play, or the goal celebrations, **** knows where the lines of others are.

So yes in their world, and your line about "field of play" suggests you think the same, Kenny crossed a line - but it's just their line and your line - most have different lines to these blokes. Heaps just think Kenny's antics were funny. Made even funnier becasue Sicily got so triggered and the Hawks are talking it up as leadership. I know I do.

No, you’re not getting it.

See if you can give me one example of any of them deciding to sledge an opponent after a game, calling them a ****head while smugly watching on?

Never happened. They might have crossed the line when it come to attacking the man in the field of play, but they always shook hands and moved on when the game was done, and if any of them were to become 10 year Senior coaches I’d expect that they still upheld that behaviour.

You’re making excuses for ungracious sportsmanship because you can’t see the difference between things that happen in the field of play(in a different era) and expected behavior once the final siren is blown.

 

[Farang83150]

As a neutral with zero skin in the game it's very easy to see who the DHs were.

 

[sr36]

No, you’re not getting it.

See if you can give me one example of any of them deciding to sledge an opponent after a game, calling them a ****head while smugly watching on?

I do get it. You draw a line there. You seem to think a line exists there that is real for everyone. It doesn't. As shown by lots of people not having an issue with Kenny - many loved it. For some there's a line with playing for frees. For others its with smart alec tweets. With others there's a line with onfield violence. Everyone having different lines adds to the theatre.

So enjoy your outrage about Kenny with your line of certainty, I just think it was great entertainment, as is most of what Ginivan does, despite him being well labelled by Ken.

 

[RCAB]

Everyone has basically said Ken was a clown. Read Barrett or Connelly’s take. No one comes out of this great. Least of all the Hawk coach and former greats sooking it up.

You're still here having sook. You opposition fans that are still crying about it, are coming off not sooky at all.

 

[Eshay187]

Do we really want it to be open season after every game where instead of handshakes the winning team gloats?

Unbecoming.

My grandmother would be appalled, may god rest her soul.

 

[RCAB]

What's so funny about all of this is that Dermie used to stand on people's heads, Lewis, Hodge and Mitchell used to drop the knee on blokes on the bottom of a pack with their coach proudly baosting about them playing unsociable football, the current team have taken playing for high frees to unseen levels - including headbutting the ground. Yet they and their fans are lecturing the comp about the spirit of football and acceptable etiquette. Maybe, just maybe, their spirit of football isn't shared by a heap of the football public, who couldn't give a shit that Hinkley took the piss out of Ginnivan, or whether he called him a ****wit or not.

Those four recent premierships really hurt you, huh?

 

[RCAB]

Is this another attempted gloat from someone pearl clutching about gloating.

The main difference between you and Kenny is that his gloats hit the mark and cause tantrums.

Yep, it hit the mark. 20 monkeys worth.

 

[RCAB]

Do we really want it to be open season after every game where instead of handshakes the winning team gloats?

Unbecoming.

My grandmother would be appalled, may god rest her soul.

It's all good, Ken should do it more often

 

[sr36]

Those four recent premierships really hurt you, huh?

If I was looking at Premierships that really hurt, it'd be WCE and Brisbane I'd be laughing at. We weren't in the ball park when you won.

 

[RCAB]

You're not getting it.

Dermie, Hodge and Lewis were hard as nails. Their eitiquette on the field was brutal. They'd go out and regularly hit contests with the aim of hurting their opponents. They would have tested out Petracca and may have killed him if he had have gone back on in the condition he did this year. And they were controlled and usually polite at the end of the game. Private school manners. That was their footy etiquette and that of many others in eras gone. And if you listen to them and how hard they want blokes to not get suspended for knocking someone out. It's the etiquette they think everyone and the game should still adhere to. And frankly, they're not even consistent with their own footy etiquette - only the parts of it which suit the Hawk narrative. Sicily would have copped it big time from here on in for showing how much he can be triggered.

But their etiquette has never been everyone's footy etiquette. Many thought they were snipers and a thug in Dermie's case. But these blokes who crossed the etiquette lines of many are out there preaching footy etiquette. So yes I find it comical that these blokes who outraged many have appointed themselves as guardians of football etiquette. Others are outraged by the ducking or Ginni being a smartarse in and out of the field of play, or the goal celebrations, **** knows where the lines of others are.

So yes in their world, and your line about "field of play" suggests you think the same, Kenny crossed a line - but it's just their line and your line - most have different lines to these blokes. Heaps just think Kenny's antics were funny. Made even funnier becasue Sicily got so triggered and the Hawks are talking it up as leadership. I know I do.

Thanks for the essay, stop reading after the etiquette of football was brutal.

 

[RCAB]

If I was looking at Premierships that really hurt, it'd be WCE and Brisbane I'd be laughing at. We weren't in the ball park when you won.

Your lack of logic is astonishing

 

[sr36]

You're still here having sook. You opposition fans that are still crying about it, are coming off not sooky at all.

Our tears are laughter.

Which was the funniest for you:

Sicily throwing a tantrum
Sammy on the verge of tears
Sammy being outraged about a smartarse quip 3 days after saying nothing wrong with a smartarse quip
Sammy saying Sicily's tantrum was great leadership
The Hawk media trio lecturing about how to do sociable football
Sicily being proud of his tantrum
Eddie getting onbord and suggesting a bigger punishment for saying dumb stuff
Caro saying that Ginnivan's tweet probably cost you a flag

It's been an excellent storm in a teacup for non-Hawks.

Really hoping Ginnivan adds to it with a public tweet from the SCG on Friday night or something similar.

 

[RCAB]

I think you don't get it at all.

We're laughing at the opposition.

All good either way. We have Watson. Did you notice him having a go at Ken too, sr36

 

[sr36]

I think you don't get it at all.

We're laughing at the opposition.

All good either way. We have Watson. Did you notice him having a go at Ken too, sr36

No I didn't. What did he do?

He's a ripper. He'll be fantastic to watch and like so many small forwards is going to be seriously loved by Hawks and seriously hated by others. You've got some good villains coming through to rile opposition fans.

 

[z547043]

No, you’re not getting it.

See if you can give me one example of any of them deciding to sledge an opponent after a game, calling them a ****head while smugly watching on?

Never happened. They might have crossed the line when it come to attacking the man in the field of play, but they always shook hands and moved on when the game was done, and if any of them were to become 10 year Senior coaches I’d expect that they still upheld that behaviour.

You’re making excuses for ungracious sportsmanship because you can’t see the difference between things that happen in the field of play(in a different era) and expected behavior once the final siren is blown.

So it’s the line according to Hawk officials, fans and past players? Talk to me at Lords champ.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I do get it. You draw a line there. You seem to think a line exists there that is real for everyone. It doesn't. As shown by lots of people not having an issue with Kenny - many loved it. For some there's a line with playing for frees. For others its with smart alec tweets. With others there's a line with onfield violence. Everyone having different lines adds to the theatre.

So enjoy your outrage about Kenny with your line of certainty, I just think it was great entertainment, as is most of what Ginivan does, despite him being well labelled by Ken.

There’s always been a line that once the final siren goes you shake hands and move on.
That’s been the same for decades upon decades.

To pretend otherwise is blatant stupidity.

 

[magpienato]

Since round 5? Show the proof

I'm sandwiched between two Hawks supporters at work, that's all the proof I need

 

[sr36]

There’s always been a line that once the final siren goes you shake hands and move on.
That’s been the same for decades upon decades.

To pretend otherwise is blatant stupidity.

The poster boys of unsociable football are preaching about how to play sociable football. If you don't get that or can't see why someone would find it funny then you really shouldn't be talking about blatant stupidity.

 

[z547043]

You're still here having sook. You opposition fans that are still crying about it, are coming off not sooky at all.

Yep. 100% I admit these events over last weekend have reminded me exactly why I used to and still do hate Hawthorn. I can admit it, because I have a sense of reality.

Unfortunately there are three flogs in this thread, all supporting one team, who all want to celebrate the behaviour of every individual ever involved with said team, without a shred of criticism and want to get on their moral high horse, pontificate and crucify the behaviour of other team’s individuals. Despite the fact that most objective viewers consider it bad behaviour all round. And all the while, the said individuals of the original team, if we delve into the past have a conviction list as long as Joel Garner’s fastball.

 

[RCAB]

No I didn't. What did he do?

He's a ripper. He'll be fantastic to watch and like so many small forwards is going to be seriously loved by Hawks and seriously hated by others. You've got some good villains coming through to rile opposition fans.

He told Ken to "**** off" when Kenny was yapping

The poster boys of unsociable football are preaching about how to play sociable football. If you don't get that or can't see why someone would find it funny then you really shouldn't be talking about blatant stupidity.

Can you show me another instance of an AFL coach taunting opposition players or coach on the ground after a game?