Uncontracted Jack Martin [requested a trade to Carlton]

kreglze

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I did have a chuckle on the comment that Casboult would be top 5 in our BnF.

However, a deal will get done, I don't know what it will be for, probably a pick Carlton don't even have yet.
 

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jooce8891

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Where have you heard this? Next year's draft is severely compromised and doesn't have any real standout players during their underage year like Rankine or Rowell.


Aside from it being a compromised draft, Martin's value is probably about pick 18-20. This year's 2nd would have probably done it, but Carlton could shoot up the table next year and the future second could be in the late 20s. And I don't think trading it will get the Suns a comparable player to Martin.
wasnt there news of like 3-4 clubs wanting to downgrade their early pick not long ago? thats evidence of this draft class being weak
 

HARKER

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Pick 4 may have been handy here

Trade 4 into 11 & ~13 from GWS (they get ahead of the Green bid) with some late pick swapping for points.

11 for Papley
13 for Martin
But then no Stocker.

Question for Blues fans (we faced this last year with Shiel)
If its one or the other, who do you prefer?
No guarantee that Green won't be bid on beforehand.
No guarantee those picks would be traded by GWS and no guarantees even if they were, would be traded to us. Melbourne may get in front.
No guarantee that #11 would have been enough for Papley either.

The CFC are very happy with their hand right now....and rightly so.
 

jooce8891

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The discussion isn't whether this class is weak or not. It is. The discussion is whether next year's class is any better. Nothing suggests that so far. In fact it may be even weaker.
fair play, but you do have to admit by that evidence this draft is fairly weak is it not? and if you add carltons stocker trade
 

Iva Bigun

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Had injuries, but not wildly inconsistent as you claimed. Stop trying to rewrite history champ. Theres a reason you got a top pick for him, he had runs on the board.
Wildly is your word not mine. Gun is also your word. To be a gun you would have to play 22 games in a season more than once in 6 years and have a better kicking efficiency than 57% which is statistically BELOW AVG

You pulled a comment out of your ass and were called on it , man up
 

eagles rule

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Given our second rounder will likely be a pick in the 35-36 range (before compensation and bids, could even be in the 40s) next year, it's probably not worth as much.
Are you suggesting Carlton will finish Top 4 next year??
That’s a very bold prediction I’m thinking a good season puts you 8 th or 9 th ..with 11 -12 wins ..


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Juddernaut08

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Are you suggesting Carlton will finish Top 4 next year??
That’s a very bold prediction I’m thinking a good season puts you 8 th or 9 th ..with 11 -12 wins ..


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Was trying to be funny (obviously I did not succeed). I'd probably agree with your assessment. Scraping into finals would be a very good season.
 

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Juddernaut08

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Wildly is your word not mine. Gun is also your word. To be a gun you would have to play 22 games in a season more than once in 6 years and have a better kicking efficiency than 57% which is statistically BELOW AVG

You pulled a comment out of your ass and were called on it , man up
You said "very inconsistent". The bloke averaged 25-27 possessions for 4 seasons in a row. Yes, he had injuries - but that doesn't make him inconsistent.

That's not a great DE% number as a raw figure, but it's a useless stat without context. Style of play, what their role is, what support do they have? These are all factors which wouldn't have helped him as he didn't have much support and didn't have elite runners to kick to.

In any case, his performances to date, his track record to date, is significantly better than Martin. That's the point people are discussing in terms of assessing trade value.

A lot of Blues fans aren't even that keen on Martin. Good player, but on that amount of money I'd be thinking twice.
 

Peel67skin

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You said "very inconsistent". The bloke averaged 25-27 possessions for 4 seasons in a row. Yes, he had injuries - but that doesn't make him inconsistent.

That's not a great DE% number as a raw figure, but it's a useless stat without context. Style of play, what their role is, what support do they have? These are all factors which wouldn't have helped him as he didn't have much support and didn't have elite runners to kick to.

In any case, his performances to date, his track record to date, is significantly better than Martin. That's the point people are discussing in terms of assessing trade value.

A lot of Blues fans aren't even that keen on Martin. Good player, but on that amount of money I'd be thinking twice.
Hopefully not keen mean no trade happening between Blues and GCS regarding Martin. I actually agree with you that he is not worth it, especially for Carlton. If you look at this thread there is more post about Martin, papley and casboult from Carlton supporter than Sydney, GCS combine.
 

Juddernaut08

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Hopefully not keen mean no trade happening between Blues and GCS regarding Martin. I actually agree with you that he is not worth it, especially for Carlton. If you look at this thread there is more post about Martin, papley and casboult from Carlton than Sydney, GCS.
Not worth it, but on some reports we have around $10m in cap space to use, gotta use it on someone!
 

Iva Bigun

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You said "very inconsistent". The bloke averaged 25-27 possessions for 4 seasons in a row. Yes, he had injuries - but that doesn't make him inconsistent

That's not a great DE% number as a raw figure, but it's a useless stat without context. Style of play, what their role is, what support do they have? These are all factors which wouldn't have helped him as he didn't have much support and didn't have elite runners to kick to.

In any case, his performances to date, his track record to date, is significantly better than Martin. That's the point people are discussing in terms of assessing trade value.

A lot of Blues fans aren't even that keen on Martin. Good player, but on that amount of money I'd be thinking twice.
We will have to agree to disagree, I didn’t realise that the definition for the word consistency was purely number of disposals, I must of missed that in the dictionary

Having watched his entire career at my club l am very comfortable with my assessment on his inability to get on the park and rubbish disposal as putting him firmly in the inconsistent bucket.
 

Juddernaut08

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We will have to agree to disagree, I didn’t realise that the definition for the word consistency was purely number of disposals.

Having watched his entire career at my club l am very comfortable with my assessment on his inability to get on the park and rubbish disposal as putting him firmly in the inconsistent bucket.
OK - I'm happy either way. If he was inconsistent, then the fact the Tiges gave up pick 6? for him is hilarious.

Anyways, IMO if we give up pick 8 for him we're severely overpaying.
 

THE_GUN

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p**s off You Troll
Problem is the scenarios you suggest would never, ever happen. Ever.
You see this is where you are just being stubborn due to your bias !

You say it will never happen , Based on what as the exact same situation DID happen with this same club in the Prestia deal
Both players were top draft picks (martin a higher pick)
Both players were either out of form or injured (prestia injured with a knee for 2 years)
Both players were offered deals from Gold Coast which they knocked back
Both players selected a particular team

The 2 situations are almost identical and Gold Coast stood firm in their demand of the pick they wanted and got the trade

Rather that say "it wont happen" You have no idea " etc why not explain why you dont believe this is possible so as we might actually take your post seriously and become informed on your wisdom
 

THE_GUN

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OK - I'm happy either way. If he was inconsistent, then the fact the Tiges gave up pick 6? for him is hilarious.

Anyways, IMO if we give up pick 8 for him we're severely overpaying.
Nobody is suggesting pick #8 for matin , There will have to be something coming back

Prestia deal was seen as overs but in hindsight ended up being a beauty as it brought in Caddy due to Prestia coming to the club and the Caddy trade gave us the currency to get Jack Graham and win the premiership (these 3 players were integral in the year and GF)

Also Prestia + Caddy = Tom Lynch as free agent
 

Juddernaut08

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Nobody is suggesting pick #8 for matin , There will have to be something coming back

Prestia deal was seen as overs but in hindsight ended up being a beauty as it brought in Caddy due to Prestia coming to the club and the Caddy trade gave us the currency to get Jack Graham and win the premiership (these 3 players were integral in the year and GF)

Also Prestia + Caddy = Tom Lynch as free agent
I'm actually on agreement with you on this one. Just illustrating to our GCS friend that Prestia had runs on the board which is what justified the pick.
 

Tygrys

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Check out the Carlton board, they are already talking about how getting Martin for a 2nd rounder is practically a done deal. As Adelaide and Richmond people well know, if roles were reversed, SOS would be 'demanding' two first rounders. Personally I can't see how you can seriously request a priority pick but then roll over for a second rounder for a 24 year old dual top three best and fairest player. Time to show some backbone.
 

THE_GUN

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I'm actually on agreement with you on this one. Just illustrating to our GCS friend that Prestia had runs on the board which is what justified the pick.
Prestia had shown more in his early years but his injuries were serious and some even said he wont recover fully , Until this year (2 years after trading for him he has finally looked better)

I also thought we had payed slight over in pick #6 and thought #12-#15 was about his range but that was the pick we had and the GC suns had the right to demand that and we had to pay.

The point i was trying to make to our dear friend (i think he must have a direct line to sos with his statements) is that he is a gold coast player that has been chased by 3 clubs and has decided on Carlton (well done carlton) But that means nothing to GC as they will want what they believe he is worth which by the way in my opinion (its only an opinion and i dont have a direct line to the suns list manager) is somewhere between 15-25 so if you club held pick#15 GC would demand that if Carlton could get a pick around 18-22 then its fair.

Dont believe the Suns would be interested in a future pick after their trades with Brisbane & Eagles the previous years have burnt them badly and next years draft is looking terrible as well as carlto improving not only the 2nd half of this year but with the players like Papley , Martin , Butler ++ more they wont be confident of where the blues could finish and would look at Brisbane's rise this year (maybe 2020 1st rounder but highly unlikely 2nd rounder imo)
 

BlueWoof_#39

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Check out the Carlton board, they are already talking about how getting Martin for a 2nd rounder is practically a done deal. As Adelaide and Richmond people well know, if roles were reversed, SOS would be 'demanding' two first rounders. Personally I can't see how you can seriously request a priority pick but then roll over for a second rounder for a 24 year old dual top three best and fairest player. Time to show some backbone.
Hard to play hardball when he’s out of contract.

SOS has only demanded and received 2 first rounders with Gibbs who had a couple of years left on his front loaded contract.

I agree he is worth more than a 2nd rounder though.


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Juddernaut08

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Check out the Carlton board, they are already talking about how getting Martin for a 2nd rounder is practically a done deal. As Adelaide and Richmond people well know, if roles were reversed, SOS would be 'demanding' two first rounders. Personally I can't see how you can seriously request a priority pick but then roll over for a second rounder for a 24 year old dual top three best and fairest player. Time to show some backbone.
Hard to play hardball when he’s out of contract.

SOS has only demanded and received 2 first rounders with Gibbs who had a couple of years left on his front loaded contract.

I agree he is worth more than a 2nd rounder though.


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Young Reid! was desperate. You don't get that sort of return every day.
 

Iva Bigun

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OK - I'm happy either way. If he was inconsistent, then the fact the Tiges gave up pick 6? for him is hilarious.

Anyways, IMO if we give up pick 8 for him we're severely overpaying.
Agree he is not worth pick 8 but maybe there will be something coming back your way like whatever we get for Achee or you will find a later pick with your trading. Who knows?
 

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