Delisted Jack Martin [Selected by Carlton in the PSD]

Then why do you want him? Go get Harley Bennell, he is most certainly up for grabs.

G2B you havent seen enough of Martin. Why are you arguing over a player you dont rate? Cripps was blown away about the prospect of getting him, and hes a bloke who witnessed him first hand in his junior years (hint: they went to the same high school).
I don’t want him. I’m just saying that we could easily get him if we did. Also if you think Cripps’ reaction means anything you clearly don’t understand how PR works
 
Jul 25, 2019
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Even Harley Bennell has had a better career than Jack Martin

Now that is just silly. Not denying that Bennell has (or should I Say had) more potential/higher ceiling than Martin, but has either been too injured or missing due to off-field issues.

Marty gave the Suns solid service.
 
Dec 28, 2007
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I’ve simply followed someone down a rabbit hole who tried to suggest you’re bound to two years from the PSD. I’ve not argued for him to do the above - rather just they have options. And if he wants to tell Melbourne “I’m leaving in a year” the only way he could do that is not specify terms.

You should know better than going into a rabbit hole , Otherwise its hard getting back out of that hole.

He will get to carlton no doubt but stranger things can happen as nick Stevens found out trying to get to Collingwood and ending up at princess park
 
Feb 6, 2016
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I don’t want him. I’m just saying that we could easily get him if we did. Also if you think Cripps’ reaction means anything you clearly don’t understand how PR works

I understand you retreating well enough.

You dont even know the player enough to give a s**t about him. He's exactly what Melbourne need and you dont know. Two years he's been wanting out and now that a trade fell through you think Melbourne can sweep him off his feet.

Wont happen.
 
In hindsight, it was a negotiation bound to fail. A win-win became impossible once the AFL turned water into wine for GCS. Suddenly, the relative value of draft picks was unequal; while only top picks had shine for GCS, for the Blues, who’ve been worse than GCS recently, it would’ve been utter negligence to part with a top 10 for a player like Martin.

Maybe if the AFL filled Carlton’s stocking with first rounders, they could’ve done the deal, but in those unequal circumstances, like a middle aged man ambitiously trying on a belt from his 20’s ... the two ends were just never going to meet.

Everyone has their own take on GCS’ stance. Mine is that it shows a club that still has a measure of dysfunction. Strong clubs don’t force their uncontracted into the PSD and then carry on publicly abt it. I can see why it’s a bemusing situation for opposition posters, but not much to see here. Carlton will get their man and keep their picks.

Ultimately, had I been in GCS’s shoes, I’d probably just have done the deal and moved on, on-traded picks and capitalized on some value, even if only 50c on the dollar.
But GCS didn’t view it that way and if they think it can solidify their position in future negotiations and recoup the loss on this single (non-)transaction, they’re entitled to do so.
The Blues were not parting with a top ten pick for Martin alone, they would have gotten getting 15 back, the deal was ultimately a six pick slide and pick 30-odd(?) next year, no?
Clearly higher relative value in 9 vs 15, but it’s not 9 for Martin and no first-rounder (fwiw, AFL closer to NFL than NBA in terms of sliding scale of pick values).
That some posters here continue to trot out this line that GCS’ offer was ‘way overs’ vs their own club’s ‘obviously reasonable’ offer or that GCS has been carrying on like a pork chop is a partisan smokescreen and it shits me.
GCS has clearly made errors along the way, but they are working hard and are always going to fight an uphill battle to get a critical mass together when they are subjected to raids / attrition every year coming off the low base.
GCS / other interstate sides as feeder clubs / failed beach heads doesn’t serve the best interests of the national competition.
(I was also OK with us being forced to pay a high price in trade currency for Treloar when we took him away from GWS, e.g.., that’s how it should work.)
Agree it’s almost certain the Blues will land Martin.
 
I understand you retreating well enough.

You dont even know the player enough to give a s**t about him. He's exactly what Melbourne need and you dont know. Two years he's been wanting out and now that a trade fell through you think Melbourne can sweep him off his feet.

Wont happen.
If he lived up to his talent he'd be the exact player Melbourne needs, yes.

Wont [sic] happen.
 
Don’t really understand your view.

Seems the only person in the entire AFL that thought Jack Martin was worth an R1 Pick was Cochrane.

Outcome reflects more poorly on him than anyone else.

Not sure if it’s a choice of words thing, but your post implies that the swap entailed a first rounder for Martin.
It was a six-pick slide (mid to later first round) and a second rounder next year (which I’d place at around 30), as far as I’m aware.
No worries, not demanding you or anyone else shares my view.
 
Classic biased Collingwood supporter commentary on Carlton situation. Classic.

Balance your comments up with “Gold Coast could have accepted what was a fair deal from Carlton and in that way avoided losing him for nothing.”

Yet to see a balanced post from your fan base on this situation. Just one sided dribble. Yet you don’t even see how one sided and biased you are.

“Blues could have taken him for something they didn’t want. Maybe they wanted to hang on to that top 10 pick because there’s a kid there they value. But they risk losing Martin because of it. On the flip side Gold Coast have probably lost him for nothing, but have calculated it sends a warning to other clubs.”

Like try writing something like that before allowing your pathetic anti-Carlton sentiment to come dribbling out in feigned shock and disbelief.

Not even wasting my time on this emotionally overwrought frogshit.
 
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Shadow89

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Jack Martin wants to go to Carlton, to play with his Indigenous 'idol', Eddie Betts. Money isn't the consideration. Nor is success. I think he really just wants to play with Eddie and get out of GC. All this other talk about Melbourne is just fanciful.

GC did the right thing, and they've shown that they won't be bullied anymore. That's worth much more than a loss of one draft pick, when they have a plethora of them. He'll get to Carlton, the media and the public will all have their say, and we'll all move on.

I honestly think it'll be a win for all parties, and forgotten pretty quickly.
 
Jack Martin wants to go to Carlton, to play with his Indigenous 'idol', Eddie Betts. Money isn't the consideration. Nor is success. I think he really just wants to play with Eddie and get out of GC. All this other talk about Melbourne is just fanciful.

GC did the right thing, and they've shown that they won't be bullied anymore. That's worth much more than a loss of one draft pick, when they have a plethora of them. He'll get to Carlton, the media and the public will all have their say, and we'll all move on.

I honestly think it'll be a win for all parties, and forgotten pretty quickly.

All else aside, have always followed Martin and it will be interesting to see if moving to a team which looks to be on the up and him hopefully having role stability and no injuries will see him achieve more of his potential.
Great to watch in full flight when he’s on.
 

Shadow89

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All else aside, have always followed Martin and it will be interesting to see if moving to a team which looks to be on the up and him hopefully having role stability and no injuries will see him achieve more of his potential.
Great to watch in full flight when he’s on.

Agreed :) Think he could be great, given the right role and placed in the right environment.
 
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The Blues were not parting with a top ten pick for Martin alone, they would have gotten getting 15 back, the deal was ultimately a six pick slide and pick 30-odd(?) next year, no?

No. It was pick 9 and a future second rounder, which for Carlton the last few years has consistently been circa 19-22. So basically giving up a top 10 pick for - Martin and a 4-7 bump in draft position. Yeah sorry. Martin is not a star player. That’s just a rip-off.

As I keep repeating, aside from the backend of last season, Carlton have actually been worse than GCS for years now, but without the draft bonanza bailout from the AFL. So while picks may now look cheap to GCS, they simply do not for Carlton, who are not out of the woods by some way. If the the deal was to be based on GCS’ new post-bounty perception of draft pick value, it was doomed to fail before it began, as it wasn’t a level playing field.
 

Opine

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What GCS have effectively said is that they didn’t see value in working picks to improve their position even further, in the same way all the other clubs typically do; because they’re secure and content with the picks they‘ll receive by way of their assistance package. This seems lazy and irresponsibly self indulgent. I’d rather see AFL resources redirected into a well structured Tasmanian team.
 
No. It was pick 9 and a future second rounder, which for Carlton the last few years has consistently been circa 19-22. So basically giving up a top 10 pick for - Martin and a 4-7 bump in draft position. Yeah sorry. Martin is not a star player. That’s just a rip-off.

As I keep repeating, aside from the backend of last season, Carlton have actually been worse than GCS for years now, but without the draft bonanza bailout from the AFL. So while picks may now look cheap to GCS, they simply do not for Carlton, who are not out of the woods by some way. If the the deal was to be based on GCS’ new post-bounty perception of draft pick value, it was doomed to fail before it began, as it wasn’t a level playing field.

Objective equation: Martin = pick 9 —> 15 + future second rounder.
You anchor the 2nd rounder to 20-odd.
That dog won’t hunt - imo - with the academy players, F/S picks and Carlton’s likelihood of improving.
For the rest of the logic to stack up, I’d have to accept that valuation of the future pick.
Concessions: Carlton and GCS are apples and oranges.
Carlton: traditional power, large membership reserves lying dormant / soon to awake.
GCS: rugby-dominated state, no luxury of being able to lure players back home etc.
Valuation: If GCS view the two futures Carlton offered as 30- and 50-odd, noting that (I think) around 1/3 of the top 50-rated 2020 talents are influenced by protection, their refusal to accept doesn’t have to be due to a distorted view of value.
It can be because they think it’s an unworthy deal for a bloke Carlton is reportedly keen on giving 650k+a year to* and that their version was fairer.
They’d want, rightly or wrongly, the equivalent of an end of first round pick, at a guess.
Their offer was pitched around there.
Your logic follows under a certain set of assumptions, but I don’t share them, won’t any time soon, and neither did GCS.
Fine with agreeing to disagree. Let’s face it, it changes nothing either way.

* They’re not really directly proportional, given contract status etc. influence the relationship, at least as seen in some cases.
 
Do you honestly believe that legal recourse isnt an option? Hes requested a trade two years running and when Gold Coast had no other option but to trade for a reasonable offer they refused. Players pay this mob every year for them to represent them. If the Suns redraft him, they will make an example of them.

Whatever stand or message they were trying to send will be lost as they die on a hill named Martin.

You are missing the point. The aflpa might mount a legal challenge after a club picks Martin up. You were talking about them doing something beforehand to stop a club picking up Martin, which they can't.
 
Jamie Elliot turned you down hey? I wasnt aware of that. He's a class below Martin. I reckon he does the same too.
Lol, I think you are over rating Martin here, probably based on the hype around him when he went 1 in the mini draft. But Martin has had a below average career to this point, Elliot has been much better, just too many injuries the last few years.
 
Jan 31, 2007
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Your logic follows under a certain set of assumptions ...

My assumptions are none really. The scenario I’ve put forward is based on objective results from recent seasons.

Yes, Carlton’s improvement may finally arrive, however, this projection has been DOA for a couple of seasons now. Yes, there’s a buzz about the academy picks. I remember when everyone was up in arms about potential no.1 pick Harrison Macreadie qualifying for GWS’ academy, before being passed over when bid on at pick 40 odd a year later. So while it may indeed turn out as you suggest, it may also not.

If you’re the one actually laying the currency on the line, it’s not at all unreasonable that what has materialised as your second round pick the last few seasons, becomes the anchor from which the future pick is valued.

Carlton being an established club doesn’t mean anything. They’ve been worse than Gold Coast for years. That’s just the fact of the matter. While the Blues’ second rounder might look like fodder to a club artificially enriched with top draft picks and other concessions, it’s actually still of value to a club like Carlton scrapping their way off the bottom. My point being, that after listening to what GCS have said, this trade was doomed to fail. It was like trying to buy something priced in US$ with AU$.
 

Skull Face

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You can reckon what you like. Either we get him or make you pay a lot more for him than you’d prefer to. A win for us either way.

Enjoy the nervous wait.
Don't think you understand how front loading works, if he nominates a year on big coin we extend him for 3 years that fall back in line with the TPP we originally agreed to.
 
Don't think you understand how front loading works, if he nominates a year on big coin we extend him for 3 years that fall back in line with the TPP we originally agreed to.
He has to nominate 2 years, players nominating a price on their head must do it over 2 year minimum. He can also only nominate total price. He can’t go $1million season one, $200k season 2. Carlton can give him that deal if Jack agrees, but he has put $1.2million over 2 years, another club can give him 600k year one, 600k year 2
 
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that was literally 6 years ago, you don’t think things can change in 6 years?
Sure they can, but I’ll tell you what, I don’t think they’re enemies, they’re mates
 
martin and sps are also best mates?
Yeah so. All I said was May will speak to Martin. I didn’t say Martin will come to Melbourne because he’s mates with May, he’s just going to speak to him.
 
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