Delisted Jack Martin [Selected by Carlton in the PSD]

Apr 24, 2018
3,181
2,485
AFL Club
St Kilda
I'm guessing the Suns recruiting staff weren't thinking you'd finish 16th.
They were going with a more realistic projection.
Including factoring in the substantial number of bids that will be matched and understanding of the draft class from the recruiting that they have already done.

We currently have our first round, pick 11, our second round, brisbane lions second round next year. + Alex Davies from the academy.
Our recruiters will know which of our players are off contract (not many), which are likely to be delisted, how many list spots that gives us. etc..

They obviously didn't think that a second rounder - likely to end up closer to 30 and 3rd rounder, end up closer to 50 given our other picks and our current playing list / contract status etc.. were of value.


If those points are equivalent to pick 11-12 why didn't you just go get us pick 11-12 - we would have taken that pick no doubt.
I don’t get why people get caught up in this points system with draft picks unless you’re matching an academy or fathers son bid then the points system means absolutely nothing like you mentioned with the second and third rounder they might be worth the same points as pick 11 but no smart club would trade pick 11 for those picks !
 
Feb 11, 2011
15,095
15,119
pakenham
AFL Club
Fremantle
I don’t get why people get caught up in this points system with draft picks unless you’re matching an academy or fathers son bid then the points system means absolutely nothing like you mentioned with the second and third rounder they might be worth the same points as pick 11 but no smart club would trade pick 11 for those picks !
Totally agree
 
Apr 24, 2018
3,181
2,485
AFL Club
St Kilda
Interesting article in The Age this afternoon hinting Martin could potentially end up back at GC as Tony Cochrane is itching for a fight on this.
I hope Jack Martins management team are readying to take the AFL and GC to court for restraint of trade should this occur. Would open the can of worms the PA want I feel.

Scenario is currently this:

- The Employee gives 7 years of service to employer
- During this 7 years the employer doesn't develop employee to the best of their ability and as a result the employee requests to move to a new employer to better their career (as indicated by the employee publically)
- The Employee has indicated that they have resigned and is not willing to continue their career with their current employer (i.e. not enter into a new contract)
- The Employee finishes their contract with the current employer and the current employer has not offered a new contract to employee - the terms of employment have been met.
- The Employee has indicated a request to work for a specific new company (as is their right under the law)
- The new nominated company under the fabricated rules of the AFL system has facilitated a fair and reasonable offer to the current employer during the Fabricated "Trade Period"
- The current employer has not accepted these terms due to no other reason but stubborness / AFL intervention with additional picks - I dare suggest other list managers/industry experts will be called on in the event of a court case to determine whether the offer for Martin was fair and reasonable under the circumstances and given media narrative most believe it was
- The current employer threatens to re-employee the employee against their wishes via the Pre Season Draft - even though all terms of their current employment contract have been met and the employee in a free market system wants to work elsewhere

If Jack Martins management aren't all over this right now and speaking to the AFL directly on this they aren't doing their job - most players, particularly those out of contract get to where they want to go. The Suns and by extension the AFL are playing a dangerous game with Jack Martins career right now and I hope TLA and their team are looking after their clients and threatening to walk everyone from that made up football club up there.
Gold Coast would be silly to redraft him due to the bad press they would get but if they did there would be absolutely nothing Martin could do about it any player that enters the preseason draft signs a contract with there salary conditions knowing any club that matches those conditions can draft them !
 
Interesting article in The Age this afternoon hinting Martin could potentially end up back at GC as Tony Cochrane is itching for a fight on this.
I hope Jack Martins management team are readying to take the AFL and GC to court for restraint of trade should this occur. Would open the can of worms the PA want I feel.

Scenario is currently this:

- The Employee gives 7 years of service to employer
- During this 7 years the employer doesn't develop employee to the best of their ability and as a result the employee requests to move to a new employer to better their career (as indicated by the employee publically)
- The Employee has indicated that they have resigned and is not willing to continue their career with their current employer (i.e. not enter into a new contract)
- The Employee finishes their contract with the current employer and the current employer has not offered a new contract to employee - the terms of employment have been met.
- The Employee has indicated a request to work for a specific new company (as is their right under the law)
- The new nominated company under the fabricated rules of the AFL system has facilitated a fair and reasonable offer to the current employer during the Fabricated "Trade Period"
- The current employer has not accepted these terms due to no other reason but stubborness / AFL intervention with additional picks - I dare suggest other list managers/industry experts will be called on in the event of a court case to determine whether the offer for Martin was fair and reasonable under the circumstances and given media narrative most believe it was
- The current employer threatens to re-employee the employee against their wishes via the Pre Season Draft - even though all terms of their current employment contract have been met and the employee in a free market system wants to work elsewhere

If Jack Martins management aren't all over this right now and speaking to the AFL directly on this they aren't doing their job - most players, particularly those out of contract get to where they want to go. The Suns and by extension the AFL are playing a dangerous game with Jack Martins career right now and I hope TLA and their team are looking after their clients and threatening to walk everyone from that made up football club up there.

This falls down at
"- The new nominated company under the fabricated rules of the AFL system has facilitated a fair and reasonable offer to the current employer during the Fabricated "Trade Period"

Who says the offer was fair and reasonable? GC clearly didn't think it was.


The other issue is that his employer isn't actually either club, it's the AFL. The clubs are just the 'branch' he works at (as per the CBA).
If he wants to leave his employer and go work for another employer (such as another league), he can. If he wants to work at a different branch of his current employer, then he's required to work within their transfer rules (which he agreed to when he signed his contract).
 
Feb 11, 2011
15,095
15,119
pakenham
AFL Club
Fremantle
Stevens scenario was more than 15 years ago, holds no relevance to Martin's situation

BTW, Stevens wanted the Pies, so no relevance to us either
only responding to a dishonest logic saying that Martin isn't worth an "upgraded" first round pick plus a future second pick in one of most compromised draft since GWS first draft.
 
Feb 11, 2011
15,095
15,119
pakenham
AFL Club
Fremantle
Either offer was around the mark, yet why give a 1st round position for an uncontracted player, one that is still without a home
Kelly went for two first rounders plus some.

Martin is a good player and structure wise play in all three zones.

Yet you low ball the suns and now it sends a message to Martin that he isn’t worth it.

Martin if he is smart should speak to Melbourne.

Your club and fans don’t rate him.
 
Kelly went for two first rounders plus some.

Martin is a good player and structure wise play in all three zones.

Yet you low ball the suns and now it sends a message to Martin that he isn’t worth it.

Martin if he is smart should speak to Melbourne.

Your club and fans don’t rate him.

Melbourne? Why would he want to go to Melbourne?

They didn't put an offer on the table for him - clearly they don't rate him at all! :huh:
 
Jun 14, 2014
1,497
1,834
AFL Club
Gold Coast
I don't disagree, I don't know enough about the Carlton list to comment. From the outside same old same old with one guy dragging you over the line at times.

That doesn't mean things won't change in the future.
What an oxymoron, you disagree, yet you dont know enough about the list to comment

Which one is it
They didn't disagree.

They wrote: "I don't disagree, I don't know enough about the Carlton list to comment."
 
Apr 29, 2012
24,113
34,585
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Gold Coast would be silly to redraft him due to the bad press they would get but if they did there would be absolutely nothing Martin could do about it any player that enters the preseason draft signs a contract with there salary conditions knowing any club that matches those conditions can draft them !
What other option does Martin have? What option other than the draft have the AFL given him?

It's hardly a choice if there's only one
 
Apr 29, 2012
24,113
34,585
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
This falls down at
"- The new nominated company under the fabricated rules of the AFL system has facilitated a fair and reasonable offer to the current employer during the Fabricated "Trade Period"

Who says the offer was fair and reasonable? GC clearly didn't think it was.


The other issue is that his employer isn't actually either club, it's the AFL. The clubs are just the 'branch' he works at (as per the CBA).
If he wants to leave his employer and go work for another employer (such as another league), he can. If he wants to work at a different branch of his current employer, then he's required to work within their transfer rules (which he agreed to when he signed his contract).
Not true. They are employed by the club's not the AFL
 
Nov 13, 2015
46,406
133,593
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
Kelly went for two first rounders plus some.

Martin is a good player and structure wise play in all three zones.

Yet you low ball the suns and now it sends a message to Martin that he isn’t worth it.

Martin if he is smart should speak to Melbourne.

Your club and fans don’t rate him.

Please comparing him to Kelly?

Martin's offer was more than reasonable
 

BlueDave

Rookie
Aug 18, 2009
47
79
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I'm guessing the Suns recruiting staff weren't thinking you'd finish 16th.
They were going with a more realistic projection.
Including factoring in the substantial number of bids that will be matched and understanding of the draft class from the recruiting that they have already done.

We currently have our first round, pick 11, our second round, brisbane lions second round next year. + Alex Davies from the academy.
Our recruiters will know which of our players are off contract (not many), which are likely to be delisted, how many list spots that gives us. etc..

They obviously didn't think that a second rounder - likely to end up closer to 30 and 3rd rounder, end up closer to 50 given our other picks and our current playing list / contract status etc.. were of value.


If those points are equivalent to pick 11-12 why didn't you just go get us pick 11-12 - we would have taken that pick no doubt.

Suns could have packaged those picks up for first rounder next trade period. With all the talk suggesting ~20 academy kids in the top 40 there have been no shortage of suitors.
 
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