Uncontracted Jack Martin

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Milanista28

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#28
GCS would rather established players for Martin over more draft picks anyway, Problem is who of the ilk of martin wants to go there.
 

Scotland

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#29
Isn’t Martin a FA at years end?

If not I doubt dons could get it done.
Martin has only played 5 seasons. At the end of the year he'll have played 6 plus spent one extra year on the list. Not eligible for FA until the end of 2020 should he still be at GC.

It will be disappointing if he leaves but IMO he's not that great anyway. Shows flashes of brilliance but 16 touches and just under a goal a game is nothing special. Has polled 1 Brownlow vote in 81 games so it's not like he's the sort of guy that turns in a couple of BOG performances each year either. Still only 24 this year but I'd hoped he'd be better by this point.
 

kreglze

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#31
GCS would rather established players for Martin over more draft picks anyway, Problem is who of the ilk of martin wants to go there.
End of the season might be very different. Martin may decide to re-sign over the season, we might have a few quality players who may want to move up, who knows, season is a long time in footy.
 

gcsunsfc

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#32
Has been injury interrupted earlier in his career
Played in defence / in attack / some mid the last few years
Very hard to gain some continuity and thrive.

Feel like this year IF the suns can remain relatively injury free he will play 50/50 forward / mid and really flourish. Can't see him in defence anymore.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him average 20 possessions / 5 marks / 5 tackles / with 20+ goals - with his beautiful foot skills thats pretty valuable.
73.38 for his career so finishes well.


Unfortunately I kind of think he leaves - seems a different personality from our young leadership core.
Hope he feels at home on the GC and amongst our team but not 100% sure he does.
 

Heaps of fun

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#33
Martin has only played 5 seasons. At the end of the year he'll have played 6 plus spent one extra year on the list. Not eligible for FA until the end of 2020 should he still be at GC.

It will be disappointing if he leaves but IMO he's not that great anyway. Shows flashes of brilliance but 16 touches and just under a goal a game is nothing special. Has polled 1 Brownlow vote in 81 games so it's not like he's the sort of guy that turns in a couple of BOG performances each year either. Still only 24 this year but I'd hoped he'd be better by this point.
Talent goes to waste at Gold Coast. Basically a footy career life support system.

No idea what Martin could have been at a club with better development.

Interested to see what happens to Lukosius. I've said previously if he ended up somewhere like Adelaide he could have been the next Riewoldt but I think at GC he'll end up closer to an Andrejs Everitt type.
 

kreglze

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#34
Talent goes to waste at Gold Coast. Basically a footy career life support system.

No idea what Martin could have been at a club with better development.

Interested to see what happens to Lukosius. I've said previously if he ended up somewhere like Adelaide he could have been the next Riewoldt but I think at GC he'll end up closer to an Andrejs Everitt type.
Slightly unfair, our development has been spotty but to completely tarnish it all as bad is pretty rough. We have developed a few good players in our time, its just we haven't been able to retain their services.

We have made big changes to backroom staff, hopefully we get even better in that department.
 

Heaps of fun

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#35
Slightly unfair, our development has been spotty but to completely tarnish it all as bad is pretty rough. We have developed a few good players in our time, its just we haven't been able to retain their services.

We have made big changes to backroom staff, hopefully we get even better in that department.
I can't think of a lot of GC players/ex-players that have lived up to their potential. The only current one I can think of is Miller. Though to be fair the majority of the list is very raw atm.

And for every Lynch, May or Prestia there seems to be two Bennell, McKenzie, Kolodjashnij, Dixon, Matera, Z. Smith etc types.

GC has a plethora of problems from drafting, development, injury management and retention. A little hard to tell where one starts and another begins, but I'm far from convinced that anything resembling a decent development system is yet in place.
 

kreglze

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#36
I can't think of a lot of GC players/ex-players that have lived up to their potential. The only current one I can think of is Miller. Though to be fair the majority of the list is very raw atm.

And for every Lynch, May or Prestia there seems to be two Bennell, McKenzie, Kolodjashnij, Dixon, Matera, Z. Smith etc types.

GC has a plethora of problems from drafting, development, injury management and retention. A little hard to tell where one starts and another begins, but I'm far from convinced that anything resembling a decent development system is yet in place.
Completely fair, ALOT of mistakes have been made and we will see in the next couple off years he fruits of these changes come together.
 

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gcsunsfc

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#37
I can't think of a lot of GC players/ex-players that have lived up to their potential. The only current one I can think of is Miller. Though to be fair the majority of the list is very raw atm.

And for every Lynch, May or Prestia there seems to be two Bennell, McKenzie, Kolodjashnij, Dixon, Matera, Z. Smith etc types.

GC has a plethora of problems from drafting, development, injury management and retention. A little hard to tell where one starts and another begins, but I'm far from convinced that anything resembling a decent development system is yet in place.
I totally agree that guys like Kolodjasnij, Lonergan came in with pretty high reputation - top 15 picks, but failed to develop into very good players - although still relatively young. A few others - Leslie, Powell, Ah Chee are yet to deliver on potential / their draft range but again are very young and would hope they can improve significantly

I, however, take umbrage with a number of other players you have lumped in with them.

Charlie Dixon
- this guy as far as I know wasn't recruited at all as a junior?
Played in Cairns and then for Redlands in the QAFL. Played for QLD in the u18 champs in 2009 - kicked 2 goals in 3 games, wasn't listed in Queenslands best players in any match.
Was raw as they came in his first year. Ended up playing 65 games for the suns, his last season with the suns was a 40 goal, 6 brownlow vote season (16 games) - I'd say that was pretty well developed talent.
In his 3 years with the power he has one year which paralleled his final year at the suns. Port Adelaide have definitely been able to get him on the park more so big tick to them for that.

Zac Smith
- Had played 20 games of AFL at ANY level when first signed to the Suns in 2008 - first playing for the suns in 2009 Tac cup.
- We obviously did alright to take a guy from a complete and utter rookie to an AFL level player.
- He had a serviceable career at the sun but left at age 25 - still young for a ruckman - he has not developed any further, even gone backwards in his 3 years at geelong (prime of his career 25 - 28)

Harley Bennell
- Gun at the suns - purely from an onfield perspective was developing beautifully
- Combination of behavioural issues and injury has halted him completely - certainly contributed to by the set up at the suns in the early days, Freo has had even less luck than we did.



Guys I think that have done well at the suns compared with expectations
- Alex Sexton: Pick 88 in the 2011 draft - hardly highly recruited. Has played a number of roles in his 97 game career to date: winger, tagger, pressure forward. 2018 (his age 24 season) was clearly his best kicking 28 goals, (3 or more on 5 occasions) including the win over the Swans at the SCG. Looking for him to have a better year again this year.

Jesse Joyce: Pick 60 in the 2015 rookie draft, has now played 47 games @ age 21 and has become a solid small/medium defender with precise disposal. Would expect him to continue to improve

Darcy Macpherson - not in this category yet as restricted by injury, but expecting big things from the little man who was selected in the rookie draft 2015.


Overall I agree that a number of our picks haven't developed like we would have hoped. I think in many cases we reached for players, in other cases they have been injury prone or we haven't had the team to manage their injuries. I do think that we have developed a number of guys that weren't on the AFL radar into decent players. To take the club forward though we need to be developing our young guys into very good / star players not just reasonable players. Jack lukosius, you had mentioned, is the type of guy I am a bit nervous about.. talent in spades but will need to be enabled in the AFL environment. I hope we can nurture and extract that fully.
 

kreglze

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#38
I totally agree that guys like Kolodjasnij, Lonergan came in with pretty high reputation - top 15 picks, but failed to develop into very good players - although still relatively young. A few others - Leslie, Powell, Ah Chee are yet to deliver on potential / their draft range but again are very young and would hope they can improve significantly

I, however, take umbrage with a number of other players you have lumped in with them.

Charlie Dixon
- this guy as far as I know wasn't recruited at all as a junior?
Played in Cairns and then for Redlands in the QAFL. Played for QLD in the u18 champs in 2009 - kicked 2 goals in 3 games, wasn't listed in Queenslands best players in any match.
Was raw as they came in his first year. Ended up playing 65 games for the suns, his last season with the suns was a 40 goal, 6 brownlow vote season (16 games) - I'd say that was pretty well developed talent.
In his 3 years with the power he has one year which paralleled his final year at the suns. Port Adelaide have definitely been able to get him on the park more so big tick to them for that.

Zac Smith
- Had played 20 games of AFL at ANY level when first signed to the Suns in 2008 - first playing for the suns in 2009 Tac cup.
- We obviously did alright to take a guy from a complete and utter rookie to an AFL level player.
- He had a serviceable career at the sun but left at age 25 - still young for a ruckman - he has not developed any further, even gone backwards in his 3 years at geelong (prime of his career 25 - 28)

Harley Bennell
- Gun at the suns - purely from an onfield perspective was developing beautifully
- Combination of behavioural issues and injury has halted him completely - certainly contributed to by the set up at the suns in the early days, Freo has had even less luck than we did.



Guys I think that have done well at the suns compared with expectations
- Alex Sexton: Pick 88 in the 2011 draft - hardly highly recruited. Has played a number of roles in his 97 game career to date: winger, tagger, pressure forward. 2018 (his age 24 season) was clearly his best kicking 28 goals, (3 or more on 5 occasions) including the win over the Swans at the SCG. Looking for him to have a better year again this year.

Jesse Joyce: Pick 60 in the 2015 rookie draft, has now played 47 games @ age 21 and has become a solid small/medium defender with precise disposal. Would expect him to continue to improve

Darcy Macpherson - not in this category yet as restricted by injury, but expecting big things from the little man who was selected in the rookie draft 2015.


Overall I agree that a number of our picks haven't developed like we would have hoped. I think in many cases we reached for players, in other cases they have been injury prone or we haven't had the team to manage their injuries. I do think that we have developed a number of guys that weren't on the AFL radar into decent players. To take the club forward though we need to be developing our young guys into very good / star players not just reasonable players. Jack lukosius, you had mentioned, is the type of guy I am a bit nervous about.. talent in spades but will need to be enabled in the AFL environment. I hope we can nurture and extract that fully.
Would also throw in the likes of Adam Saad, who may not have spent his formative years with us. But we molded him into an AFL level HB flanker who was overlooked in multiple drafts, and only came on other clubs radars after he spent a few years with us.
 

gcsunsfc

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#40
Jack Bowes oozes quality his development has been very very good.
Will Brodie I think will come on also I have always been very keen on him.
Both were top 10 picks so would expect them to become very good players - can definitely see them moving that way.
 

philthy05

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#41
I heard Port talked to him late last year as well.
I spoke to former Brisbane Lion Chris Johnson who apparently is a mentor to Jack.

Chris told me that Jack was pushing for a trade to Port Adelaide last year behind the scenes, but GC knocked it back.
Yeah there was a good source on the port board stating port were trying to work a trade for Martin last year.
 

gcsunsfc

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#43
Port needed their picks and couldn't do a swap. We'll have to see what happens next trade period.
Guess GC needing Martin was the main reason no trade got done.
Hopeful he stays - will see how this year plays out.
 

eastfreo75

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#46
Not sure how we get Martin, Coniglio and TKelly in to our side next year..would be nice though
Just my gut feel.

Kelly is 80% going to the Eagles, 19.99% staying in Geelong and .01 chance to go to Freo.

Coniglio is 50% staying at GWS, 35% going to West Coast, 10% Fremantle and 5% Hawthorn.

Martin not sure in percentage got a feeling he will going to Port or Essendon.
 
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#47
Not sure how we get Martin, Coniglio and TKelly in to our side next year..would be nice though
At this stage confidential talks with his manager would be appropriate, but something often comes out. Even a general statement of hypothetical interest.

For all the assumptions that WC will try and recruit him, I haven't seen anything referenced to the club they are interested in recruiting him. Just BF talk.

It makes sense they would be as much as I can tell, but have I missed something?
 

The Gtrain

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#48
At this stage confidential talks with his manager would be appropriate, but something often comes out. Even a general statement of hypothetical interest.

For all the assumptions that WC will try and recruit him, I haven't seen anything referenced to the club they are interested in recruiting him. Just BF talk.

It makes sense they would be as much as I can tell, but have I missed something?
Purely speculation on my behalf, only that we were pretty keen on him pre draft ( as were most) and we have built quite a decent trade rapport with GC. That said it means absolutely nothing.. He would certainly be welcomed. As far as TK and conigs who knows.TK probable
 
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#49
Purely speculation on my behalf, only that we were pretty keen on him pre draft ( as were most) and we have built quite a decent trade rapport with GC. That said it means absolutely nothing.. He would certainly be welcomed. As far as TK and conigs who knows.TK probable
I expect you are interested, just curious that's all.
 

gcsunsfc

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#50
Purely speculation on my behalf, only that we were pretty keen on him pre draft ( as were most) and we have built quite a decent trade rapport with GC. That said it means absolutely nothing.. He would certainly be welcomed. As far as TK and conigs who knows.TK probable
Not sure that wc has built a good trade rapport with gc
Clayton screwed us over just in time to leave for you guys.
No love lost there I’m sure.


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