Uncontracted Jack Martin

Turbocat

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Hawks or Geelong have already had the rule waived before
The two in four rule is only being assessed from this year 2019-18-17-16.. so this your statement is incorrect. The AFL was certainly unclear in the way they have introduced it.. as Geelong was even unsure at one stage if they could trade a pick.
 

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Turbocat

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We used a first round pick in 2016, two in 2015, one in 2014. Not sure where other clubs stand on that but I don’t think we’re quite at the point of being unable to trade future picks.
Does the 2015 picks count? 2019 , 2018 , 2017 , 2016 ... 2 in the last 4 ?

Surely all the 2 in 4 pick criteria is just to ensure a clubs doesnt go out and sell the future of the club for a very short term deal. Trading picks out for Smith and Shiel should not impede you imo..and if Ess was after Martin.. id think an application to the AFL would be very hard to deny.
How the AFL works out what is a good deal or not would be one heck of a meeting.
 

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Wording: grey area. Application: grey area.

Everyone in 2016: You can't trade your future first and second round pick. The AFL says this:

"If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selection from that same draft. But if a club keeps its future first-round selection, it can trade any of its future selections from other rounds."

Hawthorn: We've traded our first pick. Can we trade pick 10 + 2017 second round pick for O'Meara?

AFL: OK, just find another one somewhere.

Everyone: Wat?

The 4 year rule is fairly straightforward. Use two picks in the previous 4 years, you are good to go. Don't and you aren't. Unless you seek "special permission".

We used 0 in 2015, 1 in 2016, 1 in 2017 and 0 in 2018. So as I understand it we can trade our 2019 and/or 2020 first round pick this year if we want to. If we traded out both we'd still satisfy the rules next year as 1-19 is still two in four years, then 16/17 drop out of the rolling average and we're cooked as 18/19/20/21 would be 0 in 4 years so we'd need to use 22 and 23 before we could do it again.

Where it gets extra murky is the ever extending first round. We had pick 18 last year (originally) which became pick 22. That pick already belonged to Gold Coast from the previous year's trade and we then got pick 23 as compo for Lycett. Both count as first round picks despite being in the 20s and both were traded. We're not a lot better/worse off in terms of picks over 2-3 drafts but have sacrificed late first rounders for multiple second rounders barely 2-3 picks later.

North traded pick 11 then drafted Tarryn Thomas at "pick 8". Collingwood traded pick 18 then drafted Quaynor at "pick 13". Sydney did swapsies with Carlton and Adelaide and took Blakey at "pick 10". AFAIK these picks count which is a silly situation with two systems working against each other.

Surely all the 2 in 4 pick criteria is just to ensure a clubs doesnt go out and sell the future of the club for a very short term deal. Trading picks out for Smith and Shiel should not impede you imo..and if Ess was after Martin.. id think an application to the AFL would be very hard to deny.
How the AFL works out what is a good deal or not would be one heck of a meeting.
I get why they did it but it's only for future picks. There's no rule against just trading your first pick each year AFAIK.
 

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Wording: grey area. Application: grey area.

Everyone in 2016: You can't trade your future first and second round pick. The AFL says this:

"If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selection from that same draft. But if a club keeps its future first-round selection, it can trade any of its future selections from other rounds."

Hawthorn: We've traded our first pick. Can we trade pick 10 + 2017 second round pick for O'Meara?

AFL: OK, just find another one somewhere.

Everyone: Wat?

The 4 year rule is fairly straightforward. Use two picks in the previous 4 years, you are good to go. Don't and you aren't. Unless you seek "special permission".

We used 0 in 2015, 1 in 2016, 1 in 2017 and 0 in 2018. So as I understand it we can trade our 2019 and/or 2020 first round pick this year if we want to. If we traded out both we'd still satisfy the rules next year as 1-19 is still two in four years, then 16/17 drop out of the rolling average and we're cooked as 18/19/20/21 would be 0 in 4 years so we'd need to use 22 and 23 before we could do it again.

Where it gets extra murky is the ever extending first round. We had pick 18 last year (originally) which became pick 22. That pick already belonged to Gold Coast from the previous year's trade and we then got pick 23 as compo for Lycett. Both count as first round picks despite being in the 20s and both were traded. We're not a lot better/worse off in terms of picks over 2-3 drafts but have sacrificed late first rounders for multiple second rounders barely 2-3 picks later.

North traded pick 11 then drafted Tarryn Thomas at "pick 8". Collingwood traded pick 18 then drafted Quaynor at "pick 13". Sydney did swapsies with Carlton and Adelaide and took Blakey at "pick 10". AFAIK these picks count which is a silly situation with two systems working against each other.



I get why they did it but it's only for future picks. There's no rule against just trading your first pick each year AFAIK.
Pretty much as I thought it was it..although that article specifically mentions Geelong must take it R1 pick in 2019.. because 15,16,17 they did not have a R1. It doesn't say we can not trade our R1 Which sort of is not only for FR1's..


and your point on the way R1's slide into the 20's is a good one. Just shows how defining it as R1 silly ... what the chances of a P22 being so much better than a P23 for eg.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11...-picks-afls-most-misunderstood-rule-explained
As of now, only Geelong would have to use their first-round selection in 2019
 

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Pretty much as I thought it was it..although that article specifically mentions Geelong must take it R1 pick in 2019.. because 15,16,17 they did not have a R1. It doesn't say we can not trade our R1 Which sort of is not only for FR1's..
As I understand it Geelong need to use a Rd 1 pick this year only in order to be back in the future trading game for next year. Then by the time it's October 2020 you will have satisfied the 2 in 4 rule having taken Clark and Pick X. If you traded your first round pick (Say pick 15 for Jack Steven + pick 25 back) then you wouldn't be able to trade a future Rd 1 pick until the 2021 trade period.

If Geelong try to trade their Rd 1 pick this year I believe the AFL will allow it.
If Geelong try to trade their 2020 Rd 1 pick this year I believe the AFL will not allow it.

If WC trade our first round pick to you and you then try to trade your 2020 Rd 1 pick this year... I have no idea what the AFL will say. I guess that's OK? You can't say 'look we've got 2 first rounders this year' and then sneakily trade them after because the AFL would just say no to that.

and your point on the way R1's slide into the 20's is a good one. Just shows how defining it as R1 silly ... what the chances of a P22 being so much better than a P23 for eg.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11...-picks-afls-most-misunderstood-rule-explained
As of now, only Geelong would have to use their first-round selection in 2019
I posted it among the Tim Kelly stuff last year that not all "worthless" picks in the 20s are the same. Pick 23 was the last pick of the first round, pick 24 the first of the second round. Had Geelong ended up with (and used) that pick 23 then they would have used 2 in 4 and would be in a different position this year. As it turned out it was used by Gold Coast who have used 9 first rounders in the last 4 years so it's not really something they are bothered about.
 

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As I understand it Geelong need to use a Rd 1 pick this year only in order to be back in the future trading game for next year. Then by the time it's October 2020 you will have satisfied the 2 in 4 rule having taken Clark and Pick X. If you traded your first round pick (Say pick 15 for Jack Steven + pick 25 back) then you wouldn't be able to trade a future Rd 1 pick until the 2021 trade period.

If Geelong try to trade their Rd 1 pick this year I believe the AFL will allow it.
If Geelong try to trade their 2020 Rd 1 pick this year I believe the AFL will not allow it.

If WC trade our first round pick to you and you then try to trade your 2020 Rd 1 pick this year... I have no idea what the AFL will say. I guess that's OK? You can't say 'look we've got 2 first rounders this year' and then sneakily trade them after because the AFL would just say no to that.



I posted it among the Tim Kelly stuff last year that not all "worthless" picks in the 20s are the same. Pick 23 was the last pick of the first round, pick 24 the first of the second round. Had Geelong ended up with (and used) that pick 23 then they would have used 2 in 4 and would be in a different position this year. As it turned out it was used by Gold Coast who have used 9 first rounders in the last 4 years so it's not really something they are bothered about.
Mostly agree with most of that..

It does get complicated with live trading , as a club is really not in deficit till the completion of the draft. In respect of Martin .. if Geelong wanted to trade a FR1 2020 to GC for him ..id presume that could only be done with the understanding that we actually must have at least one pick in 2019 in R1...
 

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With all the other American draft rules introduced the AFL should just give the go ahead to draft day player trades.

Take Kelly an as example in 2017. You pick him at 24, we go '****, we thought we'd get him at 26' and then offer to trade pick 26 + say 32 or a future pick in return for the player. Geelong then weigh up if they value Kelly higher than Spargo + Tom McCartin, or one of the players left on the board and an extra pick next year. A player drafted has no say where they go anyway so don't have to agree to a trade. You could be drafted out of Adelaide by a team in Queensland and then be traded to Perth. Not really any different to just being drafted to Sydney out of Tasmania. In this year's NBA draft the player picked at 3 was traded for the player picked at 5 and a future first round pick, so say Port really want Rankine they offer pick 5 to Gold Coast and next year's pick. Would be an interesting element.

Instead with live trading now in clubs will just try get ahead of others in the order and play chicken with who is available when and where and fans and the media play guess work as to who really wants whom.
 

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With all the other American draft rules introduced the AFL should just give the go ahead to draft day player trades.

Take Kelly an as example in 2017. You pick him at 24, we go '****, we thought we'd get him at 26' and then offer to trade pick 26 + say 32 or a future pick in return for the player. Geelong then weigh up if they value Kelly higher than Spargo + Tom McCartin, or one of the players left on the board and an extra pick next year. A player drafted has no say where they go anyway so don't have to agree to a trade. You could be drafted out of Adelaide by a team in Queensland and then be traded to Perth. Not really any different to just being drafted to Sydney out of Tasmania. In this year's NBA draft the player picked at 3 was traded for the player picked at 5 and a future first round pick, so say Port really want Rankine they offer pick 5 to Gold Coast and next year's pick. Would be an interesting element.

Instead with live trading now in clubs will just try get ahead of others in the order and play chicken with who is available when and where and fans and the media play guess work as to who really wants whom.
AFL needs to grow up and especially the players association.

live Trading should include draft players.
 
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If the suns are clever they should move Martin on if they can get a top ten pick.. he is no star and they would be better suited to try and get a harder inside mid in the draft
 

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If the suns are clever they should move Martin on if they can get a top ten pick.. he is no star and they would be better suited to try and get a harder inside mid in the draft
Is more about stability and building chemistry in the team , look at Essendon they have Daniher , Stringer , Saad , Shiel. Great individual players but need time to Gel .
 

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If the suns are clever they should move Martin on if they can get a top ten pick.. he is no star and they would be better suited to try and get a harder inside mid in the draft
Im not sure on what planet Jack Martin isnt a star. Gets tagged every week and still goes well. He's been close to best on ground against both Freo and West Coast this year. Both of the WA teams will go hard.
 

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I can’t see the Suns accepting a future first for Martin from the Dons, it makes no sense as there will be suitors offering a known price without the need to wait
Hahaha tagged ? Once in 7 matches mate. As i say the suns need more bulls so cash him in
Um. He gets tagged most weeks. Like he did against both West Coast and Fremantle in games he played well. Future first from Essendon wont cut it that's for sure. As a freo fan Ive seen him dominate against us in most matches in the last three years. The fact that he again played well at Optus against West Coast shows that the ground fits his style of play. The problem with you argument is that you underestimate his inside ball winning massively. He wins a heap of contested possession (over ten) and clearances (over three) while having high tackle numbers (over 5 a game). Watching him a couple of times live Id have no problems with a first and a future second to get Martin to freo even though I think Gold Coast would knock that back.
 
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Um. He gets tagged most weeks. Like he did against both West Coast and Fremantle in games he played well. Future first from Essendon wont cut it that's for sure. As a freo fan Ive seen him dominate against us in most matches in the last three years. The fact that he again played well at Optus against West Coast shows that the ground fits his style of play. The problem with you argument is that you underestimate his inside ball winning massively. He wins a heap of contested possession (over ten) and clearances (over three) while having high tackle numbers (over 5 a game). Watching him a couple of times live Id have no problems with a first and a future second to get Martin to freo even though I think Gold Coast would knock that back.
Thank God you don't run a afl list 😂
 

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Thank God you don't run a afl list 😂
What the hell? Just for the record I pretty much predicted all of the trades bar the Hogan trade last year. Got called deluded for suggesting something very close to the McGovern trade (by Adelaide supporters) , Polec trade (north and port supporters), Neale trade,(by Brisbane supporters) Shiel trade (essendon supporters). The only trade I got wrong was the Hogan trade because I thought Melbourne would get more. Got abused by Melbourne supporters despite suggesting they would get more than the actual trade that eventuated for Hogan. Ill add you to the list of the clueless. Bookmark it. Martin worth way more than a future Essendon first. Freo or West Coast first and a future second the starting point for discussion if he goes west. Clueless on steriods describes your posts in this thread. PM if Im proven wrong. Just for the record Stewart Dew has described Martin as their best inside mid this year. Considering the time he spends onball thats proven by stats as well. Watching him play might be a good start to forming an opinion on his value.
 
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Of course many if not all clubs would be into him, but it was interesting that St Kilda was the only club mentioned as being interested in him in the article on the AFL website about Gold Coast and their attempts to re-sign or extend a bunch of contracts.

Perhaps we are going at him the hardest.
 

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Um. He gets tagged most weeks. Like he did against both West Coast and Fremantle in games he played well. Future first from Essendon wont cut it that's for sure. As a freo fan Ive seen him dominate against us in most matches in the last three years. The fact that he again played well at Optus against West Coast shows that the ground fits his style of play. The problem with you argument is that you underestimate his inside ball winning massively. He wins a heap of contested possession (over ten) and clearances (over three) while having high tackle numbers (over 5 a game). Watching him a couple of times live Id have no problems with a first and a future second to get Martin to freo even though I think Gold Coast would knock that back.
I would prefer to keep Martin of course but if he wants to go and Freo offered their first and future second (presuming they finish around their current ladder position) I would definitely take that.

2019 Pick 10 and
2020 pick ~25-35

I think that is probably overs for his current output
no doubt he would be much better playing as a half forward in a winning team.
 

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I would prefer to keep Martin of course but if he wants to go and Freo offered their first and future second (presuming they finish around their current ladder position) I would definitely take that.

2019 Pick 10 and
2020 pick ~25-35

I think that is probably overs for his current output
no doubt he would be much better playing as a half forward in a winning team.
Ignoring the hype that was around him as a kid and only taking his form in the AFL since being drafted, pick 10 would be plenty for him. Asking for a second on top would be a little cheeky.
 

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Uncontracted and hasnt really lived up to his potential yet.

I'd hand over Adelaides 1st for him and maybe a later pick swap in GCS favor.
GCS already had Brisbane first ,around the same position as Adelaide first so don't see the point . Fremantle I think got the players ( out of contract) GCS want . Carlton , St Kilda got nobody out of contract that are any better than GCS current list .Not saying they won't resign but if both Langdon and Blakely want to push up their salary they can always join Weller or used GCS/Melbourne club as their stepping stone for contract extension. .
 
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GCS already had Brisbane first ,around the same position as Adelaide first so don't see the point . Fremantle I think got the players ( out of contract) GCS want . Carlton , St Kilda got nobody out of contract that are any better than GCS current list .
It's really down to 'who he nominates' though (like it is every year).

If he nominates Carlton, a 1st and some late change will do for an uncontracted player who hasnt really lived up to his potential.

Still a good player, but a little inconsistent.

I'd consider our future 1st if Adelaides is too high for the Suns by the end of the year, but only if they flicked us a second rounder back this year (we currently dont have ours due to trading it out for Setterfield). Every chance our future 1st is a very good (6ish) pick again.
 

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It's really down to 'who he nominates' though (like it is every year).

If he nominates Carlton, a 1st and some late change will do for an uncontracted player who hasnt really lived up to his potential.

Still a good player, but a little inconsistent.

I'd consider our future 1st if Adelaides is too high for the Suns by the end of the year, but only if they flicked us a second rounder back this year (we currently dont have ours due to trading it out for Setterfield). Every chance our future 1st is a very good (6ish) pick again.
With Carlton ladder position I honestly don't think he will nominate Carlton . All this hype about Carlton getting better but each year the same ladder position, maybe Brodie..
 
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With Carlton ladder position I honestly don't think he will nominate Carlton . All this hype about Carlton getting better but each year the same ladder position but Brodie could well be Carlton bound .
I like Brodie, but not sure how he gets a game with us. We have Setterfield playing his exact role, and Kennedy in the 2's.

Our midfield is: Cripps (24), Walsh (18), Dow (19), SPS (21), Fisher (21), Setterfield (21) - with Kennedy (22) and Stocker (19) waiting in the wings.

Thats 8 players, 6 of whom were drafted over the past 3 drafts. I'm not sure we have room for a 9th young mid.

What we would like is a gun half forward/ small forward, who can go through the middle (when Cripps or whomever is resting forward).

Ideally Congilio as a F/A, but if that cant be done, Martin would do.
 
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