News Jack Steven retires

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Partridge said:
This seems to truly surprise people, but, not all jobs are suitable for people.

Competitive top level sport is intense, demanding, and unforgiving. If you choose to do that you have to be able to cope with it. If you know - going in - that you aren't able to handle that environment, then you need to find something else. You're not owed a living.
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I’m sure that’ll hold up in court considering that he was hardly a recruit and had a long career at the top level before us

I don’t get the angst just an easy target based on his mental health which is disgusting
 
Partridge said:
This seems to truly surprise people, but, not all jobs are suitable for people.

Competitive top level sport is intense, demanding, and unforgiving. If you choose to do that you have to be able to cope with it. If you know - going in - that you aren't able to handle that environment, then you need to find something else. You're not owed a living.
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This isn't someone who scraped up 20 games over 8 seasons at his previous club. This is someone who irrespective of his mental state, at some stage was coping with it well enough to forge a career - a good one. Perhaps football is all he has that is stopping him getting worse. No one knows. No, you're not owed a living. I don't think based on what he has achieved in his career and the effort he has put into it that he ever thought that.
 
Partridge said:
Competitive top level sport is intense, demanding, and unforgiving. If you choose to do that you have to be able to cope with it. If you know - going in - that you aren't able to handle that environment, then you need to find something else. You're not owed a living.
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But did Jack Steven know that? I would say he probably thought, or hoped, he could return to something like his best. The pre-season incident would obviously have impacted his ability to do that. Maybe he wouldn't have been able to do it anyway. We will never know.

There are two separate issues: whether he should have been recruited and how the club should have dealt with his voluntary retirement. Some people seem to want to conflate the two issues.

He was recruited and contracted, and no-one could change that. On that basis, the club negotiated an end to his contract in a respectful way for both parties.
 

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Strange Cat said:
So you’d rather have a policy at the club to not recruit players based on their mental health ...so discriminatory practices then?

that’ll be a field day for the players and lawyers involved

I’m unsure of why people are melting down over this rather than the Team’s grand final performance...I guess the tasteless stabbing jokes about his domestic violence incident and the fact that he’s an import shows the lack of respect towards him by supporters

it’s very tasteless , pick in the 50’s that didn’t work with the majority of the salary being paid by the saints it’s just bizzare that posters are taking pot shots at him when you look at the overall picture.
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Don't need to have a policy on anything.
I have not attacked him. Have only said I hope he gets a decent pay out.
 
Spazz Cat said:
Don't need to have a policy on anything.
I have not attacked him. Have only said I hope he gets a decent pay out.
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So just have a well respected club just start discriminating potential recruits .. Jesus what’s next to screen out? Perhaps you better look up the discrimination laws before sprouting stupid s**t
 
Strange Cat said:
So just have a well respected club just start discriminating potential recruits .. Jesus what’s next to screen out? Perhaps you better look up the discrimination laws before sprouting stupid sh*t
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Your PC alarm is on a hair trigger.
We don't have to recruit anyone we don't want, due to injuries, mental health (which is an injury), drug abuse, or just not being good enough.
I just wished him well and hope he gets a fair payout as he was contracted.
 
The best outcome for the club, he wasn't close to being best 22 and means we can retain an extra young player. Makes the recruitment of Smith and Higgins more palatable from an age profile point of view. That said I hope he's well compensated and that the return home does him good. Hopefully we'll hear precisely nothing about him from now on as he leads a happy and private life.
 
Spazz Cat said:
Your PC alarm is on a hair trigger.
We don't have to recruit anyone we don't want, due to injuries, mental health (which is an injury), drug abuse, or just not being good enough.
I just wished him well and hope he gets a fair payout as he was contracted.
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On one hand you support mental health and then on the other you don’t want players who have mental health to continue or try for an AFL career

clubs have recruited players with injuries, clubs have recruited players with a drug history...he was a high pick that didn’t work out it happens at every club.

it’s not a PC to follow the ******* law
 
Strange Cat said:
On one hand you support mental health and then on the other you don’t want players who have mental health to continue or try for an AFL career

it’s not a PC to follow the ******* law
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I didn't say that. If someones worth recruiting and will help the team they can have multiple personality disorder, genital herpes and a peg leg.
 
Partridge said:
Let's reassess.

1. Mature player becomes available and decides Geelong is where he wants to go.
2. Player has existing physical and mental concerns so there is already some risk.
3. Player will be turning 30 before the season starts.
4. Player gets stabbed before the season starts, and initially refuses to speak to Police about it (no alarm bells here at all).
5. Player gets shoved into the senior team after the restart in Round 2, looking slow, unfit, and nowhere near the level needed (no alarms bells here either).
6. Despite never showing the form from previous club, the player gets 9 underwhelming games, is dropped then injured and misses all the finals.
7. Despite having another year to run on his contract, first the club is in discussions about paying him out (!!!) and then he retires.

But daring to point out that this may not have been the best recruiting decision ever made, and more importantly, that it was very predictable to anyone who bothered to open their eyes, that's twisting the knife? Yeah right. It's not like we'd prefer that players be as prepared as possible to contribute if they are fortunate enough to get recruited. Like say Menegola, who was a mature recruit, and had struggles initially (on field), but has actually worked hard and gotten better.

One question. What did the club learned from McIntosh and Clark?
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Id say they learned very little but exercised the belief that not every mental health issues is the same nor will it have the same outcome. So far they are wrong on the outcome side.

Clark and Steven I can agree you would group together if you chose to. McIntosh, which ive agreed with you 1000% on was one of the worst recruiting moves the club has made in recent history (past 10-15 years) has zero place in this discussion of mental health and GFC ( unless there was an element of that I was not aware of when he was at Geelong)

GO Catters
 
dazbroncos said:
Id say they learned very little but exercised the belief that not every mental health issues is the same nor will it have the same outcome. So far they are wrong on the outcome side.

Clark and Steven I can agree you would group together if you chose to. McIntosh, which ive agreed with you 1000% on was one of the worst recruiting moves the club has made in recent history (past 10-15 years) has zero place in this discussion of mental health and GFC ( unless there was an element of that I was not aware of when he was at Geelong)

GO Catters
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I put it more under "overall risk" than specifics. Whether it's a busted knee, or hamstrings that keep tearing, or mental health, ultimately it's the risk to the club that I see as the important thing.
 
feelinfeline said:
But did Jack Steven know that? I would say he probably thought, or hoped, he could return to something like his best. The pre-season incident would obviously have impacted his ability to do that. Maybe he wouldn't have been able to do it anyway. We will never know.

There are two separate issues: whether he should have been recruited and how the club should have dealt with his voluntary retirement. Some people seem to want to conflate the two issues.
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I would believe that completely. All sportsmen think they can continue past the date they shouldn't. It certainly isn't limited to Steven. The rarity is guys like Ottens and Ling who realised the end was coming and jumped without being pushed. And you can't blame the players, no one would walk away from that money. That's where my issue is all along - the club has to be more realistic about when to make these calls, and how likely recruits are going to be able to deliver.
 
Strange Cat said:
I’m sure that’ll hold up in court considering that he was hardly a recruit and had a long career at the top level before us

I don’t get the angst just an easy target based on his mental health which is disgusting
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I don't think that's it at all. It's angst at the club for - again - seeing sunshine and rainbows where it was obvious there were major issues going in.

And whatever jibes I make at Steven I make from his output on the field. Outside of that I don't care.
 

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Stocks_go_Up said:
Whats the deal with payout for the second year.. I hope it isn't on our books.
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Why does it matter?

He wasn't on a whole lot and out list is basically guaranteed for next year with who we're signing and probably adding 1 draftee.

Having his money on the books for 1 year won't destroy us.
 
I think any commentary around JS should not forget his circumstance was complicated to start with , then to have the disruption pseason..then covid.

Having said that.. I don't not think he suited our chess board game plan. He is not what id call a neat player... and the way we have loaded up ..I suspect he would have had to find a higher level of application than he may ever have had to be selected.

There is no way anyone could have predicted list reductions when he came to geelong , so sometimes circumstances just fall the wrong way for you. Good luck to him for his future.
 
thecatattack said:
Can't believe a retirement thread has turned into a ******* sh*t fight like this.

Never change BigFooty posters. It's not hard to not say anything.
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Agree

There is a discussion now getting away from the Jack Steven announcement

Keep it to the topic from here out please

GO Catters
 
Strange Cat said:
So you’d rather have a policy at the club to not recruit players based on their mental health ...so discriminatory practices then?

that’ll be a field day for the players and lawyers involved

I’m unsure of why people are melting down over this rather than the Team’s grand final performance...I guess the tasteless stabbing jokes about his domestic violence incident and the fact that he’s an import shows the lack of respect towards him by supporters

it’s very tasteless , pick in the 50’s that didn’t work with the majority of the salary being paid by the saints it’s just bizzare that posters are taking pot shots at him when you look at the overall picture.
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How do you seperate professional athlete laziness with mental illness? If a person is lazy and doesnt train sufficiently despite numerous economic benefits from doing so then wouldnt you say that person is acting extremely irrational to the the point that we would have to start considering it as mentally ill? Mental illness after all is only detected through behaviourial observation that is distinct from average behaviour. Its not something we can see like cancer.

if we cant discriminate on mental illness in this example then does that not mean we cant discriminate against players who dont train hard enough to get the necessary level of fitness because their action would be considered mentally ill. Do the likes of laurance angwin, mitch thorp, and harley bennell have a right to sue the afl over unjust discrimination?

im not seeing a clear distinction. Would love it if someone can provide one as this is a dilemma Ive been troubled with for some time.
 
thecatattack said:
Can't believe a retirement thread has turned into a ******* sh*t fight like this.

Never change BigFooty posters. It's not hard to not say anything.
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For some here, I'm sure they could barely disagree more.

Our board's posting often supports the inane notion that being 'right' on the internet really is a thing.
 
PhatBoy said:
Well no, I'm not a doctor but I would guess that a stabbing would impact your pre-season somewhat.

And for all the jokes about him being fat, unfit, whatever - he'd still be about 300 per cent fitter than most normal people, but when you are an elite athlete, if you're 10 per cent behind everyone else, it looks a hell of a lot worse because of what you're being compared to.
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The stabbing happened like 1 or 2 weeks before the first game. So it was really no excuse for his poor fitness. He had had pretty much a full pre-season up until then.

Being out of the game for so long dealing with his mental health issues, probably put him too far behind the 8-ball though. Needed more than 1 pre-season.
 
Some truly disgusting posting going on here.

Here is a guy who has mental health problems at St.Kilda thinks a new club closer to home may help him, yet a year later is forced to retire as a result, and there are people here sticking the knife in (no pun intended), naturally it was called on page 1 by catempire

Embarrassed to ‘support’ the same club as some of you.

Thanks for your contributions to AFL football, Jack Steven, hopefully he can find happiness.
 
Down at K Park said:
The stabbing happened like 1 or 2 weeks before the first game. So it was really no excuse for his poor fitness. He had had pretty much a full pre-season up until then.

Being out of the game for so long dealing with his mental health issues, probably put him too far behind the 8-ball though. Needed more than 1 pre-season.
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he was stabbed on May 17 and played his first game on June 20
 
Spazz Cat said:
Still would of preffered Constable
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Lost me there.
Shopped himself and unlike Fogarty or Cockatoo (yes that injured crock) got no nibbles.

Reckon that’s the AFL community passing judgment on Charlie. He has a lot of work to do to make it in this caper.
 
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