Contracted Jack Steven [UFA in 2020]

Turbocat

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IMO, Geelong should be looking to bring in players in the 25 and under age bracket, not look to top up with another 30 year old (despite Steven being an excellent player)
A lot of Geelong supporters agree with you... if we add JS and Higgins... and Ablett and Taylor stay another year.. our best 22 age takes a very mature look.
 

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Turbocat

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Do I honestly need to answer “ why does geelong want a good player?” I’ll ignore you asked something so stupid.
Last time I checked we like recruiting good players.

But let’s get real. He is 30 years old start of next year with massive physical and mental health concerns and has never been at an elite AA level in the competition with the best.

To suggest anything below a mid to late second rounder is just nuts.

Geelong would much rather keep constable and our first.
The irony of the debate about Constable is that he was drafted with a R2 pick .. draft picks value can be very arbitrary .. JS himself was drafted in that range.
Its really about the odds of getting a replacement for him. who knows what players will be there at R2.. its a raffle to a degree. I suspect thats why someone like Constable would interest stk.. he is more a known now.
I wonder if he was a FA this year what the AFL would deem him worth.. Wage and age play a big part .. has there been a 30 year old FA get a R1 pick?
 

Pure_Ownage

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The irony of the debate about Constable is that he was drafted with a R2 pick .. draft picks value can be very arbitrary .. JS himself was drafted in that range.
Its really about the odds of getting a replacement for him. who knows what players will be there at R2.. its a raffle to a degree. I suspect thats why someone like Constable would interest stk.. he is more a known now.
I wonder if he was a FA this year what the AFL would deem him worth.. Wage and age play a big part .. has there been a 30 year old FA get a R1 pick?
Essentially no. NDS to North at 29yo was the closest as an end rnd 1 (pick 19 in those days) but he was more durable than Steven and came without the mental health baggage and went on a 3 year deal (I doubt we would give Steven 3 years). Other over 30s like Waite have traditionally been R2/3 compo or not at all as the age and contract determine the pick. The reality is next year St Kilda would only be likely to get a R2 compo pick at best and maybe worse. Any trade price this year will reflect that regardless of him being a top 5 player at their club. Their best option is to keep him in october and hope he doesnt just retire as they are not going to get huge value for him in a trade.
 

Turbocat

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Its a fair point but its only an argument as to why the Saints should keep him but its no argument as to why Geelong should pay overs for 20 games (given he is FA next year).
Oh sure... totally agree. I can see their side of it.. but its up to us to do what is right for our club. Worth is what someone is prepared to sell and buy for...
 

Turbocat

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Essentially no. NDS to North at 29yo was the closest as an end rnd 1 (pick 19 in those days) but he was more durable than Steven and came without the mental health baggage and went on a 3 year deal (I doubt we would give Steven 3 years). Other over 30s like Waite have traditionally been R2/3 compo or not at all as the age and contract determine the pick. The reality is next year St Kilda would only be likely to get a R2 compo pick at best and maybe worse. Any trade price this year will reflect that regardless of him being a top 5 player at their club. Their best option is to keep him in october and hope he doesnt just retire as they are not going to get huge value for him in a trade.
Hard for the AFL to pressure us if thats all they value a 30 yo as.
 

Murraj1966

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The irony of the debate about Constable is that he was drafted with a R2 pick .. draft picks value can be very arbitrary .. JS himself was drafted in that range.
Its really about the odds of getting a replacement for him. who knows what players will be there at R2.. its a raffle to a degree. I suspect thats why someone like Constable would interest stk.. he is more a known now.
I wonder if he was a FA this year what the AFL would deem him worth.. Wage and age play a big part .. has there been a 30 year old FA get a R1 pick?
Selwood was pick 7?
 

catman2006

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If Constable does go for Stevens i would think saints are picking up the tab for Stevens for at least a year..
 

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CatToTheFuture

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If Constable does go for Stevens i would think saints are picking up the tab for Stevens for at least a year..
That and they'd probably want to pay the damage bill when an angry mob inevitably burns down GMHBA. Has to be a strong no surely. Constables output is already in Stevens ballpark based on averaging only 3 quarters a game.
 

catman2006

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That and they'd probably want to pay the damage bill when an angry mob inevitably burns down GMHBA. Has to be a strong no surely. Constables output is already in Stevens ballpark based on averaging only 3 quarters a game.
Not really as Constable cant make a senior spot at the moment, so Mc or scott clearly thinks he still needs massive improvement and you cant under estimate the value of another team picking up salary when the comp is so tight at the top end....
 

Pure_Ownage

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That and they'd probably want to pay the damage bill when an angry mob inevitably burns down GMHBA. Has to be a strong no surely. Constables output is already in Stevens ballpark based on averaging only 3 quarters a game.
Look his suggestion wasnt entirely stupid Saints have the cap space to pay most of Stevens 800k next year and if they do that we may trade a better pick or player than we would have otherwise as only having to pay say 100k of Steven gives us more money to trade in someone else as well (this is what Richmond did to get a better deal from GWS for Deledio). But i doubt we will trade Constable. More likely we trade whatever is the best R2 we hold at the end of the trade period + one of our rucks (now that they missed on Draper StK might want a backup for Marshall) for Steven i think. There are other players we would consider more tradeable than Constable.
 

stfan

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He is contracted.. if able to play ..I feel he should stay and play for the side who has supported him thru his issues.
Not everyone questions his ability as a player... I feel he has plenty to offer but a 30 yo player who is a FA next year ... id think from a value pov .. geelong is trading for 20 odd games next year. It all in Stk hands really they have the final say.. if they do not wish to trade him then thats their right..
If it was just the Saints I think most would want him to stay. Pretty sure that if Ratts is appointed as the coach that he would want him.

However Steven has been a loyal servant and so the club will if he wants to go will they will try and facilitate it. But I doubt that they will give him awy.

Geelong's second pick is too cheap though.
Geelong's first pick the Cat's would probably baulk at.

Hence why someone like Constable who would no doubt like more opportunity is a possible trade.

If a trade is done it may well involve a number of aspects. ie
- Other picks
- Paying part of Jack's $$$ at least for a year.
 

Turbocat

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If it was just the Saints I think most would want him to stay. Pretty sure that if Ratts is appointed as the coach that he would want him.

However Steven has been a loyal servant and so the club will if he wants to go will they will try and facilitate it. But I doubt that they will give him awy.

Geelong's second pick is too cheap though.
Geelong's first pick the Cat's would probably baulk at.

Hence why someone like Constable who would no doubt like more opportunity is a possible trade.

If a trade is done it may well involve a number of aspects. ie
- Other picks
- Paying part of Jack's $$$ at least for a year.
The conflict is.. he has been a loyal servant etc but you do not wish to give him away.. so where that all fits.. is to be debated.. the clubs will have a better handle on what you can get at the draft with this pick or that. Abbott and Constable being mentioned .. and sometimes the value of a pick can be less important.. say for instance Freo demand a R1 and R2 for Hill..

The Saints will have their POV... and Geelong will have thiers.. and if the price is too high to pay in their eyes not others... then they can walk away like West Coast did to us last year with Kelly. The difference here is Jack has 12 months to go and he is a FA .. he of an age where its reasonable to expect he may have 2 -3 years left ..anything more than that is a bonus. Should we give away a contracted Constable who has a decade of football in front of him.. he may well be in the side this week.. he will get his opportunities.

The only way I see a R1 being involved is a deal like Ablett and atpit you do not have an R2 to entice us to look at that.. I suspect that a later pick with a player like Abbott will be offered before a Constable... but we are only guessing a couple of month will reap the answer
 

Pure_Ownage

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If it was just the Saints I think most would want him to stay. Pretty sure that if Ratts is appointed as the coach that he would want him.

However Steven has been a loyal servant and so the club will if he wants to go will they will try and facilitate it. But I doubt that they will give him awy.

Geelong's second pick is too cheap though.
Geelong's first pick the Cat's would probably baulk at.

Hence why someone like Constable who would no doubt like more opportunity is a possible trade.

If a trade is done it may well involve a number of aspects. ie
- Other picks
- Paying part of Jack's $$$ at least for a year.
I think the compromise will St Kilda will wait during the trade period and see if we can trade into an earlier R2 than what we have. If we have youll accept it i think if its only 36 we'll probably add a fringe ish type player. I think we'll want to keep Constable but time will tell.

I really dont get Constable tbh for your needs i would have thought you guys have heaps of inside mids who can win it but arent dynamic or skilled on the outside. He's basically a slightly better version of Dunstan and can you play those two plus Ross Steele and Hannebery all in inside roles in the same side without being too slow? I doubt it. You'd be better off to target players like Narkle and Cockatoo (not that i expect we would let either go but its worth trying) who at least have legspeed and offer a better balance to your side IMO.
 

Turbocat

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Look his suggestion wasnt entirely stupid Saints have the cap space to pay most of Stevens 800k next year and if they do that we may trade a better pick or player than we would have otherwise as only having to pay say 100k of Steven gives us more money to trade in someone else as well (this is what Richmond did to get a better deal from GWS for Deledio). But i doubt we will trade Constable. More likely we trade whatever is the best R2 we hold at the end of the trade period + one of our rucks (now that they missed on Draper StK might want a backup for Marshall) for Steven i think. There are other players we would consider more tradeable than Constable.
As we know ..anything is possible .. the dollar side of it is far more important to the clubs than to us mugs who just look at pick value..
 

Turbocat

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I think the compromise will St Kilda will wait during the trade period and see if we can trade into an earlier R2 than what we have. If we have youll accept it i think if its only 36 we'll probably add a fringe ish type player. I think we'll want to keep Constable but time will tell.

I really dont get Constable tbh for your needs i would have thought you guys have heaps of inside mids who can win it but arent dynamic or skilled on the outside. He's basically a slightly better version of Dunstan and can you play those two plus Ross Steele and Hannebery all in inside roles in the same side without being too slow? I doubt it. You'd be better off to target players like Narkle and Cockatoo (not that i expect we would let either go but its worth trying) who at least have legspeed and offer a better balance to your side IMO.
Its fair point on a match of type for CC.. I think the appeal was more like with us bringing home the Falcons...
 

Pure_Ownage

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Its fair point on a match of type for CC.. I think the appeal was more like with us bringing home the Falcons...
I just think CC would be a better fit at clubs like Carlton Essendon etc who need grunt mids (and have quicker ball carriers around him to complement his lack of legspeed) thanSt Kilda who already have several of that type. Anyway i suspect he's probably staying at Geelong in which case it doesn't matter.
 
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